Debt Dodgers: Meet the Americans Who Moved to Europe and Went AWOL on Their Student Loans

millenial said:
I didn't take out any loans for college so I can't say I know how its like to have student loan debt, does it really make that much of a difference on everyday life when you pay these monthly?
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Not sure I understand the question.
 
JJs07 said:
These dummies aside, what's the breaking point with student loans? My roommate, back in the day, was 1/4 mil in debt by the time he finished law school. He's got a job with Deloitte, but I don't even want to imagine what his monthly payment is looking like once interest is factored in.

Something HAS to give. Folks gonna wind up 6 feet under and still have a balance on their loan. **** is crazy.

I'm SO happy that my cousin is choosing the community college route and then transferring into USC after he wraps up his associates degree.
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Again this all leads back to people not doing what they were supposed to do.. If they crushed high school and got a scholarship and or crushed college and got themselves a lucrative job out of school they wouldn't have this problem.

Someone goes 250 in the hole that's on them. Just gotta hope that people start wising up in the future and take this system more seriously.
 
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Antidope said:
Not sure how either of those things justify just running away.

You borrowed money and reaped the benefits of having said borrowed money and now somehow you don't think it's your responsibility to pay it back? That is ridiculous.
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true, but not nearly as ridiculous as the tuition schools are asking these days.



on my life, i cannot find one reason why anyone would think it wise to spend a box office total of $70,000 for NYU, undergraduate. there is no level of prestige or degree that can be worth that kind of price. i don't care if the girls there are absolute goddesses and you are guaranteed a new broad in your dorm every week, and the dorms are luxury suites with hot tubs with free Moet, and you get to play pick up ball with obama and steph curry everyday at the campus gym. that is an obscene price.


there is a lowkey trend of students going to canada to study, idk why i never thought of that :lol:
 
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NYU has top tier programs, if you're going for one of those then you can justify it. Paying for an ivy league degree/a school that houses a top 10-15 program that you wish to study is potentially worth the cost.

The problem with tuition lies with ___________ random University that is known for nothing thinking their run of the mill degree is worth more than 20 grand.
 
I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability... but the problem that you seem to be either ignoring completely or you simply don't care is that there is not enough education about personal finance for young people as well as those who are doing the lending take no share of the blame. You keep talking about "It's their fault for not CRUSHING COLLEGE" yet what about those who lend the money? There's no responsibility or discussion about the cost of college and the fact that lenders are willing to give away all this money to any kid who asks for it. You mention it briefly, but always come back to "It's their fault for not doing better".

You're treating lenders like they're saints and angels who are running their business out of the kindness of their heart "providing people with a means to go to school", give me a break.. they know they have these kids over a barrel. They're filling a void in the system, but that's not necessarily a good thing. The system tells kids they can't get a good job and live a good life without college, yet college is overpriced and costs continue to rise. COINCIDENTALLY the lenders come to the rescue and offer a pathway to success? Nah.. it's a business and business is booming for them. Offering kids who don't get a day  of proper financial education tens of thousands of dollars with a few signatures. 

Should teenagers educate themselves? Of course. Should parents and our teachers educate their children? Of course. But we don't live in a perfect world and the fact is the system is flawed. There are many problems.. and I don't advocate for running away from your debt and obligations.. but I don't assign the blame ENTIRELY on these young adults and college grads. The colleges, the lenders, the borrowers, all share a blame as part of a flawed and broken systen.

The problem I see in your line of thinking is it pushes all of that to the side. Yes, it's on them because they signed for the loans.. but it's indicative of a far bigger issue that even though you recognize it.. you still come back to "but they didn't do what they were supposed to do". What about the colleges? Did they do what they're supposed to do? Do they have a responsibility to the students in a system they know they can't afford? What about the banks? It is bigger than just students failing to land a good job.. like Rex pointed out, the market and career opportunities can change as well.

I don't agree with debt dodgers, but the blame is bigger than them.
 
Antidope said:
NYU has top tier programs, if you're going for one of those then you can justify it. Paying for an ivy league degree/a school that houses a top 10-15 program that you wish to study is potentially worth the cost.

The problem with tuition lies with ___________ random University that is known for nothing thinking their run of the mill degree is worth more than 20 grand.
Click to expand...

i can't deny that certain programs have that reputation behind it. like, if you go to MIT, you gettin job opportunities, unless you leave with a bs degree like religion or english, but prolly even then, the name may help.


but where do you draw the line? at 70k for NYU idk if name is even worth it, unless you can knock it down with scholarships, internships, parents help. but even then, i still don't think its worth it. besides you can't expect to be out of that kind of financial hole anytime soon after graduating with any job you get, unless you making 70k out the door and living at home, and allowing the banks to go balls deep in your salary.



the best deal in 4 yr degrees by far is CUNY (city university of new york for the lesser americans). You can get any degree from religion (not that you should) to nursing or chemical engineering at Key Food prices. AND they give you $$.

CUNY= Value.
 
its an interesting argument

a huge advantage of a lot of kids who grew up in wealthy households is that they naturally learned about personal finance from their parents.
 
Big J 33 said:
 
I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability... but the problem that you seem to be either ignoring completely or you simply don't care is that there is not enough education about personal finance for young people as well as those who are doing the lending take no share of the blame. You keep talking about "It's their fault for not CRUSHING COLLEGE" yet what about those who lend the money? There's no responsibility or discussion about the cost of college and the fact that lenders are willing to give away all this money to any kid who asks for it. You mention it briefly, but always come back to "It's their fault for not doing better".

You're treating lenders like they're saints and angels who are running their business out of the kindness of their heart "providing people with a means to go to school", give me a break.. they know they have these kids over a barrel. They're filling a void in the system, but that's not necessarily a good thing. The system tells kids they can't get a good job and live a good life without college, yet college is overpriced and costs continue to rise. COINCIDENTALLY the lenders come to the rescue and offer a pathway to success? Nah.. it's a business and business is booming for them. Offering kids who don't get a day  of proper financial education tens of thousands of dollars with a few signatures. 

Should teenagers educate themselves? Of course. Should parents and our teachers educate their children? Of course. But we don't live in a perfect world and the fact is the system is flawed. There are many problems.. and I don't advocate for running away from your debt and obligations.. but I don't assign the blame ENTIRELY on these young adults and college grads. The colleges, the lenders, the borrowers, all share a blame as part of a flawed and broken systen.

The problem I see in your line of thinking is it pushes all of that to the side. Yes, it's on them because they signed for the loans.. but it's indicative of a far bigger issue that even though you recognize it.. you still come back to "but they didn't do what they were supposed to do". What about the colleges? Did they do what they're supposed to do? Do they have a responsibility to the students in a system they know they can't afford? What about the banks? It is bigger than just students failing to land a good job.. like Rex pointed out, the market and career opportunities can change as well.

I don't agree with debt dodgers, but the blame is bigger than them.
Click to expand...
I haven't treated the lenders like saints, I've rarely mentioned them. I've only mentioned them in points that others have made because they have little to do with the point that I am making. At the end of the day this all comes back to the person who took out said money not doing everything in their power to ensure that they would be able to pay back said money.

Societies hierarchy of blame is all messed up. The majority of people always blame the students last. Its always some combination of the economy/job market, predatory lending, the schools themselves, then the students when in reality they should be at the top of the list. Everyone shares the blame agreed, but one party deserves the most blame, and that would the be party who blindly signs things without reading them, then when they go to school which they're paying for, underperform and leave with themselves in a hole that they're inadequately prepared to climb out of.

The entire thing is a business from the lending to attending college itself. I said it earlier in the thread, but going to college isn't school, its a job and should be treated as such. A four year window that you're paying for that in societies eyes sets the foundation for the rest of your life isnt anything but a job, and people don't approach it with the degree of seriousness it deserves.

Everyone should play a hand in financial education but its definitely not the colleges or the banks responsibility to make sure you go to school and handle your business so you can come out and be able to pay your loans. Thats your job. 
sreggie101 said:
 
Antidope said:
NYU has top tier programs, if you're going for one of those then you can justify it. Paying for an ivy league degree/a school that houses a top 10-15 program that you wish to study is potentially worth the cost.

The problem with tuition lies with ___________ random University that is known for nothing thinking their run of the mill degree is worth more than 20 grand.
Click to expand...
i can't deny that certain programs have that reputation behind it. like, if you go to MIT, you gettin job opportunities, unless you leave with a bs degree like religion or english, but prolly even then, the name may help.


but where do you draw the line? at 70k for NYU idk if name is even worth it, unless you can knock it down with scholarships, internships, parents help. but even then, i still don't think its worth it. besides you can't expect to be out of that kind of financial hole anytime soon after graduating with any job you get, unless you making 70k out the door and living at home, and allowing the banks to go balls deep in your salary.



the best deal in 4 yr degrees by far is CUNY (city university of new york for the lesser americans). You can get any degree from religion (not that you should) to nursing or chemical engineering at Key Food prices. AND they give you $$.

CUNY= Value.
Click to expand...
NYU definitely has more than name draw, NYU Stern is a top tier business school for one thing.

I would pay full price to go to any Ivy League school.

The line is drawn at colleges who dont have any sort of real appeal that charge insane amounts of money for tuition.
 
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No, society blames the "victims" first and it usually stems from ignorance or personal experience. You were taught about money and knew how to make the best of college w/o loans, good for you. Parents had money to fund your education, excellent; but what about the next person who wasn't afforded that luxury. College is supposed to unlock more opportunities for you to become a better productive member of society.

The banks, colleges, and the government see it as breeding the next wave of consumers and debt holders. You can't tell me that it's not a problem for financial literacy to be taught as early as possible in schools when it's such a major component of life.
 
Big J 33 said:
I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability... but the problem that you seem to be either ignoring completely or you simply don't care is that there is not enough education about personal finance for young people as well as those who are doing the lending take no share of the blame. You keep talking about "It's their fault for not CRUSHING COLLEGE" yet what about those who lend the money? There's no responsibility or discussion about the cost of college and the fact that lenders are willing to give away all this money to any kid who asks for it. You mention it briefly, but always come back to "It's their fault for not doing better".

You're treating lenders like they're saints and angels who are running their business out of the kindness of their heart "providing people with a means to go to school", give me a break.. they know they have these kids over a barrel. They're filling a void in the system, but that's not necessarily a good thing. The system tells kids they can't get a good job and live a good life without college, yet college is overpriced and costs continue to rise. COINCIDENTALLY the lenders come to the rescue and offer a pathway to success? Nah.. it's a business and business is booming for them. Offering kids who don't get a day of proper financial education tens of thousands of dollars with a few signatures. 

Should teenagers educate themselves? Of course. Should parents and our teachers educate their children? Of course. But we don't live in a perfect world and the fact is the system is flawed. There are many problems.. and I don't advocate for running away from your debt and obligations.. but I don't assign the blame ENTIRELY on these young adults and college grads. The colleges, the lenders, the borrowers, all share a blame as part of a flawed and broken systen.

The problem I see in your line of thinking is it pushes all of that to the side. Yes, it's on them because they signed for the loans.. but it's indicative of a far bigger issue that even though you recognize it.. you still come back to "but they didn't do what they were supposed to do". What about the colleges? Did they do what they're supposed to do? Do they have a responsibility to the students in a system they know they can't afford? What about the banks? It is bigger than just students failing to land a good job.. like Rex pointed out, the market and career opportunities can change as well.

I don't agree with debt dodgers, but the blame is bigger than them.
Click to expand...


Insert Rock Clapping gif

The argument gets circular. The system prays on the uniformed...well be informed then and you won't fall victim. But we aren't talking about an info-mercial for Flex-Seal. This is your education. This is something that should be easily accessible to the majority of the population. Something that i personally view as critical for success. But yet it remains a flawed system in totality. No matter who you blame it can be done better. Educate kids on finance at a younger age ( i never had a finance course in my private high school), set a cap on loans without a cosigner, regulate college tuitiion costs etc. there are a ton of things that can be made better regardless of where you lay blame.

View media item 1879698
According to data from the Labor Department, the price index for college tuition grew by nearly 80 percent between August 2003 and August 2013. That is nearly twice as fast as growth in costs in medical care, another area widely recognized for fast-rising prices. It's also more than twice as fast as the overall consumer price index during that same period.
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another huge problem is for most kids coming out of highschool, college is seen as the only/best option when its not for everyone

it is true that for a lot of people and a lot of career paths college is not even close to being the best way to go about doing things, but for people that dont want to go to college they really dont know what to do next.
 
Personal finance will never be heavily taught in school. They want to keep the 99% in the 99%.

Information that is so simple yet extremely important unfortunately has to be passed down by parents or self taught.
 
BeezyGotSole said:
 
Personal finance will never be heavily taught in school. They want to keep the 99% in the 99%.

Information that is so simple yet extremely important unfortunately has to be passed down by parents or self taught.
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99% you mean keep people that make below $380k a year at below $380k a year?
 
sea manup said:
another huge problem is for most kids coming out of highschool, college is seen as the only/best option when its not for everyone

it is true that for a lot of people and a lot of career paths college is not even close to being the best way to go about doing things, but for people that dont want to go to college they really dont know what to do next.
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This is true, there is a shortage in those practicing trades e.g. plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc. because it's looked down upon.

BeezyGotSole said:
millenial said:
 


99% you mean keep people that make below $380k a year at below $380k a year?
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Yes the 99% the people who aren't millionaires the people who are middle class, lower class, poverty etc.
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That's because this economy thrives off of consumerism. If everybody had the education and financial literacy, there would be a lot less spending which is bad for our economy.
 
Dathbgboy said:
This is true, there is a shortage in those practicing trades e.g. plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc. because it's looked down upon.
That's because this economy thrives off of consumerism. If everybody had the education and financial literacy, there would be a lot less spending which is bad for our economy.
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Which is exactly why they will never push financial literacy in school systems.
 
Antidope said:
Learn it at home? Learn it yourself?
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If you are fortunate enough to have parents that have the knowledge to pass down, then yes you can learn at home.

Yes you can teach yourself, but most don't ever become remotely interested in financial literacy.
 
Antidope said:
Big J 33 said:
 
I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability... but the problem that you seem to be either ignoring completely or you simply don't care is that there is not enough education about personal finance for young people as well as those who are doing the lending take no share of the blame. You keep talking about "It's their fault for not CRUSHING COLLEGE" yet what about those who lend the money? There's no responsibility or discussion about the cost of college and the fact that lenders are willing to give away all this money to any kid who asks for it. You mention it briefly, but always come back to "It's their fault for not doing better".

You're treating lenders like they're saints and angels who are running their business out of the kindness of their heart "providing people with a means to go to school", give me a break.. they know they have these kids over a barrel. They're filling a void in the system, but that's not necessarily a good thing. The system tells kids they can't get a good job and live a good life without college, yet college is overpriced and costs continue to rise. COINCIDENTALLY the lenders come to the rescue and offer a pathway to success? Nah.. it's a business and business is booming for them. Offering kids who don't get a day of proper financial education tens of thousands of dollars with a few signatures. 

Should teenagers educate themselves? Of course. Should parents and our teachers educate their children? Of course. But we don't live in a perfect world and the fact is the system is flawed. There are many problems.. and I don't advocate for running away from your debt and obligations.. but I don't assign the blame ENTIRELY on these young adults and college grads. The colleges, the lenders, the borrowers, all share a blame as part of a flawed and broken systen.

The problem I see in your line of thinking is it pushes all of that to the side. Yes, it's on them because they signed for the loans.. but it's indicative of a far bigger issue that even though you recognize it.. you still come back to "but they didn't do what they were supposed to do". What about the colleges? Did they do what they're supposed to do? Do they have a responsibility to the students in a system they know they can't afford? What about the banks? It is bigger than just students failing to land a good job.. like Rex pointed out, the market and career opportunities can change as well.

I don't agree with debt dodgers, but the blame is bigger than them.
Click to expand...
I haven't treated the lenders like saints, I've rarely mentioned them. I've only mentioned them in points that others have made because they have little to do with the point that I am making. At the end of the day this all comes back to the person who took out said money not doing everything in their power to ensure that they would be able to pay back said money.

Societies hierarchy of blame is all messed up. The majority of people always blame the students last. Its always some combination of the economy/job market, predatory lending, the schools themselves, then the students when in reality they should be at the top of the list. Everyone shares the blame agreed, but one party deserves the most blame, and that would the be party who blindly signs things without reading them, then when they go to school which they're paying for, underperform and leave with themselves in a hole that they're inadequately prepared to climb out of.

The entire thing is a business from the lending to attending college itself. I said it earlier in the thread, but going to college isn't school, its a job and should be treated as such. A four year window that you're paying for that in societies eyes sets the foundation for the rest of your life isnt anything but a job, and people don't approach it with the degree of seriousness it deserves.

Everyone should play a hand in financial education but its definitely not the colleges or the banks responsibility to make sure you go to school and handle your business so you can come out and be able to pay your loans. Thats your job. 

sreggie101 said:
 
Antidope said:
NYU has top tier programs, if you're going for one of those then you can justify it. Paying for an ivy league degree/a school that houses a top 10-15 program that you wish to study is potentially worth the cost.


The problem with tuition lies with ___________ random University that is known for nothing thinking their run of the mill degree is worth more than 20 grand.
Click to expand...


i can't deny that certain programs have that reputation behind it. like, if you go to MIT, you gettin job opportunities, unless you leave with a bs degree like religion or english, but prolly even then, the name may help.



but where do you draw the line? at 70k for NYU idk if name is even worth it, unless you can knock it down with scholarships, internships, parents help. but even then, i still don't think its worth it. besides you can't expect to be out of that kind of financial hole anytime soon after graduating with any job you get, unless you making 70k out the door and living at home, and allowing the banks to go balls deep in your salary.




the best deal in 4 yr degrees by far is CUNY (city university of new york for the lesser americans). You can get any degree from religion (not that you should) to nursing or chemical engineering at Key Food prices. AND they give you $$.


CUNY= Value.
Click to expand...
NYU definitely has more than name draw, NYU Stern is a top tier business school for one thing.


I would pay full price to go to any Ivy League school.

The line is drawn at colleges who dont have any sort of real appeal that charge insane amounts of money for tuition.
Click to expand...



:smh: its a shame that schools can get away with overcharging because of name, but that is american capitalism right? word to apple. my problem is that education is treated as a big business (which it is) and not as something that everyone has a right to. its treated as a privilege for those who can afford it.

thats *** backwards man. i must be honest tho and say if i had gotten into ivy league, i would have gone myself. the game is rigged, but ill play because i value getting a career more than not going just to make a statement.

its absurd tho and unfair. capitalism is outta control in this country.




don't get me wrong, part of the blame goes to students who think it wise to major in nonsense, but then again, we don't structure our education to really prepare youth for adult life. personal finance isn't really taught, nor is there any focus on math and science, which results in most applicants choosing non STEM fields because they feel weak in those areas of study, regardless if the job security is stronger there. so its an overall education system design flaw.

but my mom caught that **** early and make me do extra work in math and science and FF to now i got da EE. but
 
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