The Ninjahood Thread [Formerly the White Fragility Thread]

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is a good read, lots of truth. Great post from Hennessy as well. I think more awareness of the issue of (systemic) racism, white supremacy and white privilege is the major step that needs to happen for society to make some progress towards a better society.
Unfortunately the system is set up exactly to prevent that. The education system plays a major role in this, as the author said.
I don't see that changing any time soon unfortunately.
I think for now what we can do as white folks who are aware of these problems and want to try and help, the most important thing is passing on our knowledge and instilling these morals in our children. Arguing with fellow white people and trying to educate them more often than not results in hostility and zero constructive discussion due to the white fragility. So I believe our children are our best bet in taking a step towards a better society, however small that step may be.
 
Last edited:
The issue I come across is that I am found to be "hostile" when speaking about  white people. They shout back "I'm one of the good ones, why do you say white people as if to talk about all of us"

They are so blind to their privilege that they can't even concede being painted broadly. That individualism is something minorities are not afforded. Where is the outrage that when I take my suit off from work, I'm just another black man that might steal the ladies purse?

 We minorities are stuck with generalities in every day life, and white people can't even concede to generalities when approaching the discussion of racial issues themselves.
 
Last edited:
Colombia said:
This is a good read, lots of truth. Great post from Hennessy as well. I think more awareness of the issue of (systemic) racism, white supremacy and white privilege is the major step that needs to happen for society to make some progress towards a better society.
Unfortunately the system is set up exactly to prevent that. The education system plays a major role in this, as the author said.
I don't see that changing any time soon unfortunately.
I think for now what we can do as white folks who are aware of these problems and want to try and help, the most important thing is passing on our knowledge instilling these morals to our children. Arguing with fellow white people and trying to educate them more often than not results in hostility and zero constructive discussion due to the white fragility. So I believe our children are our best bet in taking a step towards a better society, however small that step may be.
Click to expand...

Bingo. And don't let the guise 'diversity & inclusivity' purported by the West Coast fool anyone either. I grew up and went to school in the Bay and boy...

View media item 2114640
This happened while i was at Cal. Claims by UC Berkeley being this bastion of diversity...understanding...blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong its better than a lot of other places in the U.S. but its obvious when you have so many people oblivious to the treacherous history faced by the Black & Brown community
 
GetBack said:
Blanket statement.
Click to expand...
Of course there are some people who see all of us white folks as the devil but we shouldn't be so quick to get offended over what looks like a blanket statement. Rather than shifting the focus of the discussion on arguing semantics, give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're implying racist and willfully ignorant white people rather than all of us.
 
Last edited:
when ppl say all white ppl are racist, they mean culpable or guilty by association for passively benefitting from white privilege

like how the blue wall has all cops support even bad cops despite their wrongdoing
 
LIONBLOOD said:
Many psychology/psychiatry experts are calling the rise of Trump a side effect of white male fragility or just male fragility in general. Men who hold higher status or at least have been told that they do will see the world burn before they give up their "status" in society. White men see the inevitability of giving up their privileges to

-Racial minorities
-Women
-Gays
-Foreigners



That's why Trump supporters are always mad and incoherently so. Most importantly that's why his supporters are usually the scum and bottom of the barrel of our society. They blame everyone else for their shortcomings.  :lol:
Click to expand...
A lot of truth in this.
A lot of white folks(males in particular) feel like their way of life is being taken away from them.Being white myself,I try my best not to associate myself with people who have these types of feelings.
 
Hennessy said:
I read the whole article. My roommate (who is white) displays "white fragility" whenever something racial is brought up among my girl or my friends (who are black). I will accredit this mainly to "racial arrogance" (see article for the definition I am referring to). The author paints a grim picture when she says,
White racism is ultimately a white problem and
the burden for interrupting it belongs to white people (Derman-Sparks & Phillips,
1997; hooks, 1995; Wise, 2003
Click to expand...
, right after speaking about "racial arrogance". She writes,
Because most whites have not been trained
to think complexly about racism in schools (Derman-Sparks, Ramsey & Olsen
Edwards, 2006; Sleeter, 1993) or mainstream discourse, and because it benefits
white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of racism.
Click to expand...
. Now I say the author paints a grim picture because she is saying "the burden for interrupting white racism belongs to white people", and, "most whites have not been trained to think complexly about racism in schools." So why would one group take responsibility to change something that A) they don't understand, and B) is benefiting them. This is sad and one of the reasons I believe things won't change any time soon. Even those who acknowledge all of this and understand completely have very little motivation to incite change. I can admit that, personally, while I'm gaining a better understanding of racial issues (mainly because of the abundance of racial posts on NT) I still don't see anything I can do to change anything and I'm not compelled to.

There are so many white people that just don't understand. When minorities try to inform them of systematic racism, etc... I do believe it falls on deaf ears most of the time. And here is where the "white fragility" comes in... White people feel like they are having the finger pointed at them personally, they may get upset or defensive or just dismiss it. This will upset the person trying to educate them. No progress is made. I've seen this happen on NT over and over and in real life with my roommate. I think "universalism" and "individualism" play a big part also (see article for definition I am referring to).

I agree with the author that humility is important.
Whites generally feel free to dismiss these informed perspec-
tives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect
on them further, or seek more information.
Click to expand...
Just understanding racism has always been here in US and to offer an open mind, a listening ear, a held hand and stand with my fellow citizens can make a difference.

@Hand2HandKing thoughts?
Click to expand...
I love your response cause you have been and continuing to make the effort to learn.

To address the part I highlighted in red one thing I obviously recommend is to keep digging and keep listening and then pass on that info to other white people, this goes into the part I highlighted in blue the burden she mentioned. Now I know trying to talk and discuss topics like this with other members of the privileged group can be frustrating and discouraging. (For example in another realm similar I've been experiencing this frustration when it comes to explaining sexism and misogyny and how that works to other men who don't get it).

It can be a burden on someone of a privileged group explaining this stuff to other members of the privileged group and its meant to be a burden cause it wants you to give up and say "**** it doesn't affect me anyway". Thats what white supremacy wants you to do it wants you to give up trying, so my advice to you as a is to keep going and keep spreading the knowledge that you've taken the time to listen to other black people on it'll be a struggle but it's much appreciated.
heatpinoyboy said:
lol i remember reading this in class a few years back. One of the most offensive things you can call a white person is a racist
roll.gif
I've had those experiences facilitating discourses where the white students just went up in arms immediately.

It's also interesting to see contentions as recent as the Ferguson tragedy: https://hdp.press/the-myth-of-white...erstand-their-critics-c8e9ad75825c#.xbtf8yq4v
Click to expand...
So true 
laugh.gif
 but also not even calling them racist but just saying something they said is racist and calling them out on it white people with white fragility into a frenzy 
laugh.gif
 And then they usually say stuff like "Well I don't think thats racist cause blah blah blah" and i'll just say "...I'm black...I KNOW racism when I here it i've heard the same regurgitated talking BS from people who are racist and you trying to tell me why that isn't racist...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..." 
laugh.gif

Colombia said:
This is a good read, lots of truth. Great post from Hennessy as well. I think more awareness of the issue of (systemic) racism, white supremacy and white privilege is the major step that needs to happen for society to make some progress towards a better society.
Unfortunately the system is set up exactly to prevent that. The education system plays a major role in this, as the author said.
I don't see that changing any time soon unfortunately.
I think for now what we can do as white folks who are aware of these problems and want to try and help, the most important thing is passing on our knowledge and instilling these morals in our children. Arguing with fellow white people and trying to educate them more often than not results in hostility and zero constructive discussion due to the white fragility. So I believe our children are our best bet in taking a step towards a better society, however small that step may be.
Click to expand...
This is key for white people like you (white people who have taken the time to sit down and listen AND take seriously to black people about this stuff).
 
Just sounds like good old fashion classism to me. "you can't understand is cause you too soft" could be said to anyone of any race that's mid to high level on the socioeconomic scale. Poverty and opression has messed up a lot of communities.

Kinda off topic, but when people say that whites should "own up to what they did to us", like.... Who are we expecting to step up? Like, which person of the white community would be asked to speak for the entire race?
 
Hand2HandKing said:
 
when ppl say all white ppl are racist, they mean culpable or guilty by association for passively benefitting from white privilege

like how the blue wall has all cops support even bad cops despite their wrongdoing
Click to expand...
A great analogy from one of my old professors on this topic was something like this.

White supremacy is like a conveyor belt...there are some white people who realize or just don't care what the privilege and supremacy is and they sprint down they conveyor belt cause they love the benefits they get from it.

Then there are white people who realize things might be bad (or even acknowledge things are and why) but they don't care enough yet to take the time to learn more about it and are uncomfortable talking about it so they just avoid it al together at the most they will say how bad racism is every now and then.

White people like this aren't walking with the conveyor belt of white privilege and supremacy cause they realize its bad BUT they are just standing there on the conveyor belt and still being pulled forward by the conveyor belt of white privilege and supremacy, still getting the benefits of it while feeling good about themselves because they still acknowledge racism is bad. This helps no one.

We need more white people who are willing to walk in the opposite direction and walk away and speak and act against white privilege and white supremacy.
 
An Armada said:
A great analogy from one of my old professors on this topic was something like this.

White supremacy is like a conveyor belt...there are some white people who realize or just don't care what the privilege and supremacy is and they sprint down they conveyor belt cause they love the benefits they get from it.

Then there are white people who realize things might be bad (or even acknowledge things are and why) but they don't care enough yet to take the time to learn more about it and are uncomfortable talking about it so they just avoid it al together at the most they will say how bad racism is every now and then.

White people like this aren't walking with the conveyor belt of white privilege and supremacy cause they realize its bad BUT they are just standing there on the conveyor belt and still being pulled forward by the conveyor belt of white privilege and supremacy, still getting the benefits of it while feeling good about themselves because they still acknowledge racism is bad. This helps no one.

We need more white people who are willing to walk in the opposite direction and walk away and speak and act against white privilege and white supremacy.
Click to expand...

To piggyback off your last sentence, few fail to realize that the civil rights movement got to become a national issue through white college students lending support and resources even to radical groups at the time.

Now I say that to say this, I'm all for violence to solve these racial issues if necessary. However, it's important to actually include white people and other minorities to spark change and do so through speaking knowledge to those who won't listen to a minority, but will listen to someone who may look like them.

those who privilege from this system of "white is right" fail to acknowledge the plight of those who don't know what that privilege entails and therefore, don't see how being racist and being inside a racist system are not that far apart.
 
DonRe said:
 
An Armada said:
A great analogy from one of my old professors on this topic was something like this.

White supremacy is like a conveyor belt...there are some white people who realize or just don't care what the privilege and supremacy is and they sprint down they conveyor belt cause they love the benefits they get from it.

Then there are white people who realize things might be bad (or even acknowledge things are and why) but they don't care enough yet to take the time to learn more about it and are uncomfortable talking about it so they just avoid it al together at the most they will say how bad racism is every now and then.

White people like this aren't walking with the conveyor belt of white privilege and supremacy cause they realize its bad BUT they are just standing there on the conveyor belt and still being pulled forward by the conveyor belt of white privilege and supremacy, still getting the benefits of it while feeling good about themselves because they still acknowledge racism is bad. This helps no one.

We need more white people who are willing to walk in the opposite direction and walk away and speak and act against white privilege and white supremacy.
Click to expand...
To piggyback off your last sentence, few fail to realize that the civil rights movement got to become a national issue through white college students lending support and resources even to radical groups at the time.

Now I say that to say this, I'm all for violence to solve these racial issues if necessary. However, it's important to actually include white people and other minorities to spark change and do so through speaking knowledge to those who won't listen to a minority, but will listen to someone who may look like them.

those who privilege from this system of "white is right" fail to acknowledge the plight of those who don't know what that privilege entails and therefore, don't see how being racist and being inside a racist system are not that far apart.
Click to expand...
I agree and i'll further your point as well about the civil rights movement especially since someone earlier brought up how the miseducation or lack there of on race with white people plays a part in tis.

What you said about they civil rights movement is 100% true many people do know now the role asians, white people, jewish people and others helped further the civil rights movement and even fewer know the major role the entire world played in our civil rights movement (The Cold War).

Leaving this information and nuance of what went down with the civil rights movement out of our education paints the picture that MLK by himself lead black people to peacefully protest and then america out of the goodness out their hearts ended racism. This idea that sooooo many people have is another reason why its so hard now a days to get people to care and see whats been going on cause they have been taught everything is fixed and if something is wrong its only fixed by black people holding hands and singing. So this is why we see now when a black person like me addresses racism and systematic racism i'm told "well you're the real racist cause you keep talking about, it was so long ago you guys need to get over it what are you talking about MLK wouldn't like that"

Education and PROPERLY telling history and how things went down is an important step fixing this.
 
Last edited:
I agree @LIONBLOOD  Racism, sexism and homophobia are like incestuous cousins they are many parallels between them. I've always understood racism and how it works cause I live that everyday but I didn't always understand the other two since i'm also a straight man and don't have life experiences affected by sexism and homophobia. Once I saw the parallels in the behavior and mentality of a racist to sexism and homophobia I corrected my behavior and began to educate myself and listen to people who live it everyday the same way we need more white people to do when it comes to educating themselves on racism.
 
Last edited:
Hand2HandKing said:
 
how do we get white people to educate themselves?
Click to expand...
While it may be a small step, I think it's important for us white folks who are aware and wish to help, that we instill the knowledge of these issues and our values into our children and make sure they stay on that path. Arguing with other whites and trying to educate them generally goes nowhere due to this white fragility, so I think our children are our best bet in making progress. My dad is a white supremacist as I've said a few times before, but it was my mom who molded my values and principles. There's not many minorities in my area so I could've turned out a racist as well if my close environment didn't work to prevent that.

Children are most easily indoctrinated, and that's where the educational system comes in. That's why so many white people in the US remain almost oblivious to racism issues and the history of white supremacy. In my experience I was taught pretty extensively about racism, colonization, slavery, ... but my school was known to be very progressive so I can't say if that's the norm for us here in Belgium.

That is why it's important for us to teach our children our values, because they might not get the necessary information from their education.

Our kids can then influence other children as well.

I doubt we'll see a significant improvement in our lifetime, but perhaps with these small steps our society will eventually become a better place for minorities. 
 
Last edited:
the article touches on this too, the white-centric education children receive

white is normalized against the "other"

i believe its not enough just to teach about injustice and how wrong it is but teach to actively and consistently challenge racism/prejudice among their peers
 
Hand2HandKing said:
 
the article touches on this too, the white-centric education children receive

white is normalized against the "other"

i believe its not enough just to teach about injustice and how wrong it is but teach to actively and consistently challenge racism/prejudice among their peers
Click to expand...
Challenging racism is also important. I've had some instances at work for example where a coworker thinks he's slick and starts spewing some racist bs about middle eastern coworkers thinking I'm cool with that because I'm white. 
mean.gif


I don't bother really arguing in depth with such people because it goes nowhere but I'll tell them what I think of it, that their behavior is shameful and to keep that bs to themselves.

Actively teaching that knowledge and values is of course the way to go, it's not just a one time conversation we need to have with our children.

In my experience you can influence your close surroundings (close family members) to some extent but with people outside of your tight circle, not so much. Maybe close friends too. I don't become close friends with racists so I wouldn't really know.

My highschool was pretty multicultural and one of the more progressive schools in a wide area. We had foreign student programs, working with middle eastern/african refugees, ... There was a refugee center right next to the school and the administration allowed all refugees to join our classes at no cost. And as a human sciences student, part of our cultural sciences class consisted of a lot of interaction with refugees and various other ethnicities, which gave us a better look into the struggles they go through. Our school was certainly the exception to the rule though.

I've heard some pretty terrible stories about the treatment of middle eastern students in other nearby schools in the same area.
 
Last edited:
An Armada said:
So true :lol:  but also not even calling them racist but just saying something they said is racist and calling them out on it white people with white fragility into a frenzy :lol:  And then they usually say stuff like "Well I don't think thats racist cause blah blah blah" and i'll just say "...I'm black...I KNOW racism when I here it i've heard the same regurgitated talking BS from people who are racist and you trying to tell me why that isn't racist...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..." :lol:


This is key for white people like you (white people who have taken the time to sit down and listen AND take seriously to black people about this stuff).
Click to expand...
I called the vice principal a racist when I was in JHS and she nearly had a meltdown. Like a malfunctioning robot. Starting stuttering and the whole nine.
 
Racism towards JEWS is real bros. I got a Beard and a Christian name... a lot of Muslims think I'm a JEW.

Whatever the jews did, they messed up big time because it seems that everyone hates them LOL!!
 
nikeskywalker said:
Racism towards JEWS is real bros. I got a Beard and a Christian name... a lot of Muslims think I'm a JEW.

Whatever the jews did, they messed up big time because it seems that everyone hates them LOL!!
Click to expand...
laugh.gif
 

nice try though
 
LIONBLOOD said:
Many psychology/psychiatry experts are calling the rise of Trump a side effect of white male fragility or just male fragility in general. Men who hold higher status or at least have been told that they do will see the world burn before they give up their "status" in society. White men see the inevitability of giving up their privileges to

-Racial minorities
-Women
-Gays
-Foreigners



That's why Trump supporters are always mad and incoherently so. Most importantly that's why his supporters are usually the scum and bottom of the barrel of our society. They blame everyone else for their shortcomings.  :lol:
Click to expand...

Yup, I mentioned that in the poltics thread. They feel their America slipping out and this is their last ditched effort to reclaim what is so precious and sovereign to them.


I'm glad that we all agree that education is key. I've stated this numerous times and still stand by that statement. Education can either make or break the system and lack of education is just as bad as educating to maintain this current system.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
Entrepreneurs Thread
Replies
7
Views
323
TSCQ
TSCQ
therealest1
Nike Air DT Max 96 (Deion Sanders)
Replies
15
Views
2K
truenike81
truenike81
therealest1
Jordan IV RM
Replies
16
Views
3K
Public Enemy
Public Enemy
HIM
|| DFS Player Props Thread || Prize Picks - Underdog - etc. ||
Replies
24
Views
1K
HIM
HIM
fdub
Dating a lady with kids..
Replies
23
Views
3K
sharpshooter718
sharpshooter718

The ultimate sneaker enthusiast community.

NikeTalk was created as a way of giving back to both the sneaker enthusiast community and to the greater global community of which we are all a part.

NikeTalk is NOT affiliated with Nike Inc. in any way, shape, or form. All opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of Nike, Inc.

© 1999-2024 NikeTalk.com

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom