The Ninjahood Thread [Formerly the White Fragility Thread]

[SC kid]

Im not getting defensive or personal..... like i said i thought about it and respect whatever you believe as your opinion.

It wasnt a bait question and i dont care who your friends are lol.

I just wanted to know.

 

[hand2handking]

can we talk about the white victim complex?

[h1]  White People Explain Why They Feel Oppressed[/h1]
By Toure

Contributor

September 17, 2015

Sometimes white people vex me. Maybe they confuse you, too. Maybe you're a white person who is sometimes confused by white people. A lot of white people have told me they're befuddled by the actions and perspectives of other white people. I hear you. What confuses me? I think it's the utter lack of awareness of how race in America truly functions. In the midst of a national policing crisis, the Black Lives Matter movement is trying to will into existence a sense of value for black bodies and some white people respond, "Why are they so anti-white?"

That's dumbfounding to me. I wonder, how could they be so clueless? When white people question why blacks get to say certain words or make certain jokes that whites can't or when white people ask where is White History Month or when white people question why they have to pay for the racism of their ancestors, it's offensive and infuriating and it's also confounding.

In Ta-Nehisi Coates's astounding new book, Between the World and Me, he refers to white people as "dreamers" to evoke the sense of them being not fully awake, like sleepwalkers. I'm not sure if white people are like sleepwalkers, or more like ostriches, consciously burying their heads in the sand, hiding from reality. And that's exactly what vexes me the most about white people: their reluctance, or unwillingness, to recognize the vast impact their race has on their lives and on the lives of all those around them.

Modern white Americans are one of the most powerful groups of people to ever exist on this planet and yet those very people—or, if you're white, you people—staunchly believe that the primary victims of modern racism are whites. We see this in poll after poll. A recent one by the Public Religion Research Institute found 52 percent of whites agreed, "Today discrimination against whites has become as big a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities."

A 2011 study led by a Harvard Business School professor went deeper to find that "whites see race as a zero sum game they are losing." That was even the name of the study. It showed that over the last five decades both blacks and whites think racism against Blacks has been slowly declining, but white people think racism against whites is growing at a fast rate. White people are increasingly certain that they're being persecuted. The study also notes, "by any metric—employment, police treatment, loan rates, education—stats indicate drastically poorer outcomes for black than white Americans." White perception and the reality are completely at odds.

Why is it that some white people feel like they are the primary victims of racism? And why do they feel like giving any bit of liberty to black Americans means they are losing something? And why should I be an unpaid armchair psychiatrist interpreting the feelings of white people when I could just ask them? I mean, they're all over the place and available for study in their natural habitat.

So I did my own unscientific poll, asking several white people to help me understand white people. Based off the responses, I found three primary explanations for why so many white folks feel like they are the true victims in America today.
[h3]  [/h3][h3]Isn't Whiteness Less Valuable Now?[/h3]
For some white people, whiteness seems less economically valuable than it was decades ago. It's as if w­hite privilege doesn't take you as far these days in the same way that a dollar doesn't go as far as it did in your grandpa's time. Back in the Mad Men-era, if a white man showed up, he got a good job that let him take care of his family. No more, they say. But understanding the reasons behind that are hard.

A woman who asked not to be named said, "Being a reasonably hard working white male no longer entitles you to respect or a middle class lifestyle. This has mostly to do with structural economic dynamics including increased competition globally and the decline of unions, but it's a lot simpler to blame it on the black person or Hispanic person who got the job that you think was supposed to be yours."

Jon Dariyanani, co-founder of a software start-up called Cognotion, echoed that sentiment. "It's much easier to believe that the reason the middle class life is slipping away from you is because some lazy group of people are soaking up resources and blocking the way, than to believe that it is caused by globalization and bad macroeconomic policy beyond any individual's control. 'Anti-white' racism relies on an economic anxiety that is almost entirely a fantasy."

It's definitely easier to blame a person of color than it is to try to understand how faceless global economic forces have screwed you over. You can't see global economic forces working, many people don't understand them, and who specifically are you supposed to blame? Besides, blaming black people is as American as Apple computers.
[h3]Is Whiteness Ending?[/h3]
Throughout American history, white has been the dominant race. That is ending. Demographers say that by 2043 there will be fewer white people than people of color in America. We will become a minority-majority nation. Among children under six, it has already happened—there are more kids of color than white kids. I imagine this impending end could seem frightening.

Tim Wise, anti-racist educator says, "When you've had the luxury of presuming yourself to be the norm, the prototype of an American, any change in the demographic and cultural realities in your society will strike you as outsized attacks on your status. You've been the king of the hill and never had to share **** with anyone, what is really just an adjustment to a more representative, pluralistic, shared society seems like discrimination. When you're used to 90 percent or more of the pie, having to settle for only 75 or 70 percent? Oh my God, it's like the end of the world." But as white people lose their dominant status, the meaning of whiteness in America will have to change significantly.
[h3]  [/h3][h3]What Is Racism?[/h3]
Some of the white people I talked with feel like many white people lack of a deep understanding of race and racism. Tim Wise said, "Whites are used to thinking of racism as an interpersonal thing, rather than institutional. So we can recall that time we got ****** customer service by a black person, or had some black person make fun of us for something, and we think, 'we're the victims of racism now,' paying no attention to the ongoing systemic imbalance in our favor." This is in part because the nature of privilege is that you don't have to think deeply about your privilege if you don't want to.

Erikka Knuti, a political strategist, said, "Part of white privilege has been the ability to not know that your privilege exists. If you benefit from racism, do you really want to know that?" I can see where it would be uncomfortable for people to admit that their lives are shaped by unearned advantages, especially in an environment where those advantages may be beginning to slip away, but the blindness itself is a part of the problem.

White people have duties as part of the American community. They must be honest with themselves and their co-citizens and admit that white privilege shapes a lot of life in this country. They must understand that the truly pernicious, life-defining sort of racism is not interpersonal, it's institutional. The systems that shape who lives where, who gets educated, who gets jobs, who gets arrested, and so on, these things shape lives, and they are all heavily weighted in white people's favor. To ignore all of that is to misunderstand America. If white people admit those things, it will be plain that they are not, in any way, victims.

I am not urging white people to feel guilty, I'm saying be more honest. As we move toward a nation where white people are less dominant, it will be critical that white people stop being racial ostriches, or sleepwalkers, and deal forthrightly with what it means to be white. Many white people say they have a strong desire to not discuss race because there's a chance they could make a mistake and end up somehow looking racist. But a lack of discussion about race leads to a lack of sophistication about race.

Sociologists speak of race-averse (homes where race is not discussed) and race-aware households (homes where race is openly discussed). Children who grow up in race-averse homes tend to have a more difficult time dealing with race when they get older because they have less experience wrestling with it in their youth. White people are, by and large, living in race-averse communities that support their desire to not discuss race and thus often ending up struggling with how to deal with this complex, nuanced, emotional subject.

This is not progress. Calling yourself color-blind is not progress—it's insulting. Engaging with race, making serious efforts to understand race, understanding how systems shape our world and how white people consistently benefit from those systems to the detriment of others, and rejecting the backwards notion of white victimhood—that is the path to progress.

http://www.vice.com/read/white-people-told-me-why-they-feel-they-oppressed-456

 

[hand2handking]

 

its important that you believe what i believe so that you can tell other white people

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

What Is Racism?

Some of the white people I talked with feel like many white people lack of a deep understanding of race and racism. Tim Wise said, "Whites are used to thinking of racism as an interpersonal thing, rather than institutional. So we can recall that time we got ****** customer service by a black person, or had some black person make fun of us for something, and we think, 'we're the victims of racism now,' paying no attention to the ongoing systemic imbalance in our favor." This is in part because the nature of privilege is that you don't have to think deeply about your privilege if you don't want to.

Erikka Knuti, a political strategist, said, "Part of white privilege has been the ability to not know that your privilege exists. If you benefit from racism, do you really want to know that?" I can see where it would be uncomfortable for people to admit that their lives are shaped by unearned advantages, especially in an environment where those advantages may be beginning to slip away, but the blindness itself is a part of the problem.

White people have duties as part of the American community. They must be honest with themselves and their co-citizens and admit that white privilege shapes a lot of life in this country. They must understand that the truly pernicious, life-defining sort of racism is not interpersonal, it's institutional. The systems that shape who lives where, who gets educated, who gets jobs, who gets arrested, and so on, these things shape lives, and they are all heavily weighted in white people's favor. To ignore all of that is to misunderstand America. If white people admit those things, it will be plain that they are not, in any way, victims.

If someone is not ready to look at racism in this context everything is just going to go right over their heads.

 

[halftime]

 
i dont have any white friends so im qualified to say theyre all racist

You don't think this is a defeatist way of thinking?

I would hate to go through life feeling like someone is always out to get you, but as a Muslim it's starting to feel like that

Of course, I meant no disrespect to the issue at hand, I just want to try and understand it a bit more so I can be informed to tell those who dont know

 

[hand2handking]

whats defeatist? thinking theyre all racist?

listen when in the company of white people racism is like a hip trend

its an ice breaker, an ingratiator, a common shared principle

they even have code with which to signal amongst each other

 

[ninjahood]

da reverse Stormfront force is strong in this thread...

 

[deleted]

whats defeatist? thinking theyre all racist?

listen when in the company of white people racism is like a hip trend

its an ice breaker, an ingratiator, a common shared principle

they even have code with which to signal amongst each other

Elaborate

You make it seem like once any 2 white people get together, they start saying racist things for sport on some Hail Hydra stuff

 

[jape]

Using this same standard, can we declare that every male is a misogynist?

yeah for sure....but white people are all definitely racist

 

[Mark Antony]

da reverse Stormfront force is strong in this thread...

I've never seen you comment on the opposite. Somehow white supremacy is what it is to you but black empowerment moves you so strongly you have to comment.

 

[deleted]

yeah for sure....but white people are all definitely racist

I guess I just have an issue coming to grips with the attribution of a single trait or behavior, good or bad, to an entire section of society

To me, there is a lack of thought that goes into saying "all ____ people are ____"

 

[Coromanti]

 

yeah for sure....but white people are all definitely racist

I guess I just have an issue coming to grips with the attribution of a single trait or behavior, good or bad, to an entire section of society

To me, there is a lack of thought that goes into saying "all ____ people are ____"

This right here. It's an oversimplification and generalization of a whole group of people you've never met.

 

[TURBO UNO]

To me, there is a lack of thought that goes into saying "all ____ people are ____"

Repped, sir.

 

[Ingenious Bastard]

I would never say "all" that's obviously false. But....maybe more than half are definitely unintentionally racist. I'm talking about the "I don't see color/my dad's best friend is black" types.

In a system where it (racism) often goes unchecked...how could they not be ?

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

I've never seen you comment on the opposite. Somehow white supremacy is what it is to you but black empowerment moves you so strongly you have to comment.

Now all of a sudden fool can spot racism but ignorantly denies systemic racism at every turn. You gotta love the tools on here

 

[ninjahood]

da reverse Stormfront force is strong in this thread...

I've never seen you comment on the opposite. Somehow white supremacy is what it is to you but black empowerment moves you so strongly you have to comment.

so da answer is calling "all white people racist"?

when have full blown blanket generalities ever worked?

 

[Mr.Guy]

Can you explain what reverse storm front means ninja?

 

[Mr.Guy]

Ninja wants to be a white man sooooo bad...

 

[Nereyda Vuelve Por Dios]

A lot of question are being asked that should be answered so I can wait my turn.

But to those who don't acknowledge that all white people, in this country or those countries in Europe of Caucasian heritage, benefit from the color of thier skin in every facet of thier respective society. Can ya answer me this, what institution is/was not inherently racist anywhere from It's inception to now?

I want to know if the doubt and fear us minorities have of every medium of power this countries has, is illogical. Where has the white man in this country gained our utmost and unconditional respect and belief that we will not get mistreated or become victims of injustice. Shed light those who are smarter than me.

 

[Coromanti]

A lot of question are being asked that should be answered so I can wait my turn.

But to those who don't acknowledge that all white people, in this country or those countries in Europe of Caucasian heritage, benefit from the color of thier skin in every facet of thier respective society. Can ya answer me this, what institution is/was not inherently racist anywhere from It's inception to now?

I want to know if the doubt and fear us minorities have of every medium of power this countries has, is illogical. Where has the white man in this country gained our utmost and unconditional respect and belief that we will not get mistreated or become victims of injustice. Shed light those who are smarter than me.

Yes, it's illogical. I can only speak from anecdotal experience.

I come from an immigrant family. Some did well, some did poorly, so I've seen both sides of life.

My mother and father for example. Worked BS jobs while putting themselves through school at night, eventually got better jobs, put themselves through master's programs (again at night), and have led (mostly) decent lives ever since.

Conversely, I've seen relatives not go to college/trade school or drop out, and work dead end jobs. 

I had a cousin even start on the wrong path of constantly getting into trouble throughout his youth. Then he mellowed out and started to make a change in his life. Now he's doing quite well for himself.

I won't speak for anyone else but what I've seen. And what I've seen boils down to choices. So that's how I've always seen life, a long list of choices. And choices sometimes do have intergenerational effects but these effects are not unbeatable. Some things may not seem like choices because you're stuck between a rock and hard place, or it may seem like there is only one clear decision to make, and yet it is still a choice.

I noticed you mentioned respect, the way my dad put it was that he wasn't looking for anyone's respect except self-respect. As long as he knew he was on the right path he didn't care if his boss didn't like him, or his race, or his culture, that's a distraction. The only thing that matters was that he did exceptional work and brought home is paycheck. He's a very stoic guy, and he taught me this stoic philosophy (avi check), so feelings never really came into the equation for him.

 

[Coromanti]

A lot of question are being asked that should be answered so I can wait my turn.

But to those who don't acknowledge that all white people, in this country or those countries in Europe of Caucasian heritage, benefit from the color of thier skin in every facet of thier respective society. Can ya answer me this, what institution is/was not inherently racist anywhere from It's inception to now?

I want to know if the doubt and fear us minorities have of every medium of power this countries has, is illogical. Where has the white man in this country gained our utmost and unconditional respect and belief that we will not get mistreated or become victims of injustice. Shed light those who are smarter than me.

"Can ya answer me this, what institution is/was not inherently racist anywhere from It's inception to now?"

That is irrelevant. The only thing that matter's is that you use every tool available to you to build yourself up. Learn the system, work the system. In every system there is a top and bottom. Whether you take liberal capitalist democracy or authoritarian communist dictatorship, there is a top and a bottom. Learn the system, work the system.

I also take issue with this: "But to those who don't acknowledge that all white people..." you're assuming that that is something that is true. In Europe, there was a reason they fought so often historically. Generally speaking, Germans didn't like the Polish, Polish didn't like the Germans, The French didn't like the English, the English didn't like the French, and on and on and on. This is also true across Africa. Ethnic groups often warred with each other for centuries before any white people showed their faces. In Kenya for example their politics are marred by ethnic factions taking precedent over what's best for the country as a whole. Ethnicity is more important than race, at least that was true for the older generations. I find this whole Black vs White thing to be a uniquely New World phenomenon. Even still in this day and age, generally speaking Ukrainians don't like Russians, Russians don't like Chechens, Bosnian Muslims don't like Serbian Christians,Turkish don't like Kurds, Cantonese don't like Fujianese, Koreans & Chinese don't like Japanese etc etc. This goes on and on. So you're simplification of Black and White is symbolic of your American experience and isn't reflective of the world in general.

 

[Ingenious Bastard]

"Can ya answer me this, what institution is/was not inherently racist anywhere from It's inception to now?"

That is irrelevant. The only thing that matter's is that you use every tool available to you to build yourself up. Learn the system, work the system. In every system there is a top and bottom. Whether you take liberal capitalist democracy or authoritarian communist dictatorship, there is a top and a bottom. Learn the system, work the system.

Well, based on the topic at hand it is very relevant, and important. The dismissal shown above is part of the issue. Sure we can sit back and blame who, what, why, and where all day long. But it still must be acknowledged as to why things are the way they are today.

Can you work and learn the system? Absolutely, but that's just not reality for everyone.

 

[Coromanti]

 

"Can ya answer me this, what institution is/was not inherently racist anywhere from It's inception to now?"

That is irrelevant. The only thing that matter's is that you use every tool available to you to build yourself up. Learn the system, work the system. In every system there is a top and bottom. Whether you take liberal capitalist democracy or authoritarian communist dictatorship, there is a top and a bottom. Learn the system, work the system.

Well, based on the topic at hand it is very relevant, and important. The dismissal shown above is part of the issue. Sure we can sit back and blame who, what, why, and where all day long. But it still must be acknowledged as to why things are the way they are today.

Can you work and learn the system? Absolutely, but that's just not reality for everyone.

Why is it very relevant and important?

I think it's important to learn history. However, I will not let history stand in my way of what I want to achieve today.

Why is it not reality for everyone?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

As the son of immigrant parents that worked hard to give me a great childhood. I say this.

The Immigrant experience =/= African American experience

 

[Mark Antony]

I take issue with black folks doing well, immigrants etc that waste time with the "if I did it why can't you" argument as opposed to "I did it, let me show you how". It's in the same thought class as those they look down on as they both don't contribute to any progress.