2022 NBA Offseason Thread: Preseason kicks off; Things are fine in Los Angeles, Draymond beats the charges

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VARNELL HILL said:
The only real break they caught through the process is locking in their franchise player at a discount early on due to his injury history. The main component in all of it is drafting. Before the owner can do anything...you have to have the players. I don't understand acknowledging that but trying to throw in some underhand caveat of how much more their owner is willing to spend than every other one (which is false by the way).

Who's on the list of teams that drafted well, had great player development, did allll of the little things....but their owner just simply refused to pay for it all? List stops at OKC by my estimation. I can assure you if the Knicks (or Nets if they had picks) had drafted well enough over a 3 year period to form a championship core, that their owners would have had ZERO problems printing how ever much money it took.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/ We can track this thing back to 2015. Clearly Joe Lacob isn't the only owner willing to spend money.
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Ok, if your point is that there are a few other big market owners in the league willing to spend at his level, ok fine. Granted

I did say much of the Warrior's success is from drafting and player development. But I don't buy that is the only reason. They have been competent enough not to pull a Dallas with Jalen Brunson goof with their draft picks over money.

Dudes point about Wiggins is still nonsense IMO. The one-time salary jump allowing Durant to come to the team was a major break for them. Durant deciding to come was a major break. The fact they didn't lose him for nothing was a major break. Which ultimately lead to them getting Wiggins

Warriors are a highly competent franchise, and a lucky one.
 
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RustyShackleford said:
Ok, if your point is that there are a few other big market owners in the league willing to spend at his level, ok fine. Granted

I did say much of the Warrior's success is from drafting and player development. But I don't buy that is the only reason. They have been competent enough not to pull a Dallas with Jalen Brunson goof with their draft picks.

Dudes point about Wiggins is still nonsense. The one-time salary jump allowing Durant to come to the team was a major break for them. Durant deciding to come was a major break. The fact they didn't lose him for nothing was a major break. Which ultimately lead to them getting Wiggins

Warriors are a highly competent franchise, and a lucky one.
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Dawg. A lot of the dynasties are lucky. You can point to numerous lucky bounces or circumstances of the Spurs, Lakers etc.

GSW are as organic as any past dynasty if not the most
 
Vincent Van Goat said:
Dawg. A lot of the dynasties are lucky. You can point to numerous lucky bounces or circumstances of the Spurs, Lakers etc.

GSW are as organic as any past dynasty if not the most
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Getting Durant was far from organic. People still not letting Durant live that down

I'm not hand-waving the Warrior's competency, especially with draft and player development

I am saying that is not the full story. No matter how much people try to act like it is.
 
To be honest, the one thing I give full credit to the Warriors that raised their ceiling the most and made them a championship-level team last season was..........getting rid of Kelly Oubre

Probably as impactful as when they signed Durant

Been preaching the gospel too...
#1.PNG


#2.PNG
 
It's basically unheard of in today's NBA for a team to have 3 draft picks in two years completely max out their talent while fitting perfectly together and then the team being able to keep all of them for long term tenures like what happened with the Warriors with Steph, Klay and Draymond. So I definitely think its fair to say that the Warriors have had some very good furtune in this run. But I don't see it as criticism. Like Vincent Van Goat Vincent Van Goat said, you can point to "lucky" factors with almost all sports dynasties.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Getting Durant was far from organic. People still not letting Durant live that down

I'm not hand-waving the Warrior's competency, especially with draft and player development

I am saying that is not the full story. No matter how much people try to act like it is.
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Not really that far though

When you build the way they did, attracting a player like Durant is all connected

I'm not saying you're ignoring the Warriors' savvy moves/development, just pointing out the fact that a lot of dynasties are lucky. Luck is almost a must in these things

I think most Warriors fans will admit they had a lot of good fortune

At the same time many other orgs have also had great fortune and nothing's come of it
 
Vincent Van Goat said:
Not really that far though

When you build the way they did, attracting a player like Durant is all connected

I'm not saying you're ignoring the Warriors' savvy moves/development, just pointing out the fact that a lot of dynasties are lucky. Luck is almost a must in these things

I think most Warriors fans will admit they had a lot of good fortune

At the same time many other orgs have also had great fortune and nothing's come of it
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This seems like a really charitable take on the Durant situation that the majority of people don't give. A lot of people still knock KD for that move.

Ok, even if that were the case...

And what did the Warriors do to make the TV deal expire at a fortunate time, for the new deal to be a major increase, and then for the teams to reject cap smoothing which lead to a cap jump that gave them the opportunity to upgrade from Harrison Barnes to KD?

Like this started with one Warriors fan responding to my joke about the Warriors by claiming the Warriors are just draft picks and a player no one wanted (Wiggins), and then another person claimed the only real break they got was being able to re-up Steph on a discount. I think their success, and fortunes, extend beyond those things.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Ok, if your point is that there are a few other big market owners in the league willing to spend at his level, ok fine. Granted

I did say much of the Warrior's success is from drafting and player development. But I don't buy that is the only reason. They have been competent enough not to pull a Dallas with Jalen Brunson goof with their draft picks over money.

Dudes point about Wiggins is still nonsense IMO. The one-time salary jump allowing Durant to come to the team was a major break for them. Durant deciding to come was a major break. The fact they didn't lose him for nothing was a major break. Which ultimately lead to them getting Wiggins

Warriors are a highly competent franchise, and a lucky one.
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I missed anyone saying it's the only reason...but it is BY FAR the most important reason they are where they are. Everything starts w/ the core of Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green.

Kevin Durant wanted to play w/ the Warriors...because of THAT core. I'm missing how building a team that players want to play for constitutes as a "break". Working out a sign and trade when he wanted to leave wasn't a break. The Nets had their incentive for why they wanted to do it also.

www.netsdaily.com

How Kevin Durant’s agreement to a sign-and-trade in 2019 benefited Warriors ... and Nets

The Warriors are in the NBA Finals, the Nets are not. And in a pre-Finals report on The Athletic, Tim Kawakami writes about how the Nets willingness to do a sign-and-trade at the time of The Clean...
www.netsdaily.com www.netsdaily.com

As for Wiggins...we're certainly not about to re-write the book on him. His stock was very low when that trade was made. You referenced his numbers prior to joining GS that year and left out soooooo much context. This is why it's important to look beyond PPG, RPG, APG in a vacuum, because it excludes efficiency. What was supposed to be a fresh start after Jimmy Butler, started off well...and Andrew Wiggins was on FIRE to start the season. He then progressively got worse after the month of November and was getting booed at home.

www.espn.com

Andrew Wiggins 2019-20 Stats per Game - NBA - ESPN

The 2019-20 NBA season stats per game for Andrew Wiggins of the Golden State Warriors on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

The overwhelming consensus on here and in general was that Minnesota won that trade and Wiggins was one of the worst contracts in the league, if not THE worst. There certainly weren't teams lining up to trade for Andrew Wiggins. Extracting peak value out of him enough to win a championship while revamping his image and reputation was certainly not luck or a break.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Wiggins was averaging 22/5/3 in Minny the season he got traded. People wanted him, maybe not for his full salary, but he was far from Russ. The main concern was not his skill, but his commitment and effort to getting better.

Much of GSW success is based on their great drafting and player development, of course. Especially for Chip #1.

But it is also based on an owner that is willing to spend more that the rest of the league, and key free agents that left money on the table to sign with them. Plus the downstream benefits from that. Which is fine.

Be happy for your team, but this got it out the mud steez Warriors fans be peddling are just fairy tales to help them sleep better at night
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i'm sure teams wanted wiggs' production but a lot of media called his 5years/$150 million an untradable "albatross" even with his 22/5/3. i don't like myself for appreciating a billionaire but props to Lacob for being willing to stay competitive at all costs, even if it meant dipping into the luxury tax to have a 15-win season followed by a loss in the play-in round.

it makes sense for warriors' fans to have a "made it out the mud" mentality. save for a few seasons, that franchise was a doormat for 40 consecutive years with frugal nickel and diming ownership. they became free agent destination because they drafted three future HoFers in almost successive drafts. Iggy was the first to know.

if we could play revisionist history, say if the spurs hadn't drafted kawhi, would they have been similarly as active in the free agent/trade market to extend the duncan-manu-parker dynasty?
 
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RustyShackleford said:
This seems like a really charitable take on the Durant situation that the majority of people don't give. A lot of people still knock KD for that move.

Ok, even if that were the case...

And what did the Warriors do to make the TV deal expire at a fortunate time, for the new deal to be a major increase, and then for the teams to reject cap smoothing which lead to a cap jump that gave them the opportunity to upgrade from Harrison Barnes to KD?

Like this started with one Warriors fan responding to my joke about the Warriors by claiming the Warriors are just draft picks and a player no one wanted (Wiggins), and then another person claimed the only real break they got was being able to re-up Steph on a discount. I think their success, and fortunes, extend beyond those things.
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Even the post you were originally replying to, there's a lot of truth to it

There's a lot of truth to what you're also saying as well

But

Wiggins was viewed as an albatross contract at the time. Sure he wasn't Russ level as a player but I don't think anyone was trying to trade for Wiggins. The pick was kind of the prize of the trade

The fact that they rehabbed Wiggins is still impressive
 
B Sox said:
They aren’t going to move him this year because of this. Can’t risk it when you’re trying to repeat. He’s too important.
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Looking ahead to next season... this year def their swan song. Hope Green plays nice, the repeat is def right there for the taking
 
B Sox said:
They aren’t going to move him this year because of this. Can’t risk it when you’re trying to repeat. He’s too important.
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well yah I get that, but if they don't bring extend him.

people are making it seem like it's a done deal no Draymond extension.
 
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