according to this month's Car and Driver, da Chevy Camaro ZL1 >>>>> BMW M6

[cocotaso1]

Living in a country where you can get a $400+ fine for driving 75mph+ and get arrested for driving 100+ Ill take comfort+reliability over power especially with our traffic congested highways. Sorry ninja.

But american muscle from the 60s-70s>>>>>>

speaking of speed limit laws. pardon my ignorance on this subject, but shouldn't car manufacturers (american ones at least) somehow be liable for creating cars capable of going 100-150+ mph over any legal speed limit? not advocating this, just curious.

 

[arturzee]

I'd still choose the bmw m6 over that chevy any day

 

[af1 1982]

speaking of speed limit laws. pardon my ignorance on this subject, but wouldn't or shouldn't car manufacturers (american ones at least) somehow be liable for creating cars capable of going 100-150+ mph over any legal speed limit?

It's like gun manufacturers. Guns don't kill people, people kill people

 

[ninjahood]

Living in a country where you can get a $400+ fine for driving 75mph+ and get arrested for driving 100+ Ill take comfort+reliability over power especially with our traffic congested highways. Sorry ninja.

But american muscle from the 60s-70s>>>>>>

speaking of speed limit laws. pardon my ignorance on this subject, but shouldn't car manufacturers (american ones at least) somehow be liable for creating cars capable of going 100-150+ mph over any legal speed limit? not advocating this, just curious.

nanny state lifestyle, i want no part of.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

It's like gun manufacturers. Guns don't kill people, people kill people

Perfect example, like asking if Glock should be sued or fined if someone dies getting shot by one.

 

[mr jordan04]

saw Da in the title and knew it was ninja

 

[cocotaso1]

It's like gun manufacturers. Guns don't kill people, people kill people

Perfect example, like asking if Glock should be sued or fined if someone dies getting shot by one.

i love cars that haul ***. i also want no part of a nanny state and believe there are way too many frivolous law suits being filed in the united states. but i think the points are a little different. the gun was created with the understanding that something will be harmed if it is used. i was just curious how things worked. seeing as car manufactures constantly have involuntary recalls, are continually on the look out for liability problems or getting sued for design flaws.

 

[ripc]

"The BMW is the better car by nearly every measure. Its structure feels far stiffer than the Camaro’s shell, immediately imparting a superior sense of driver control. Top up, the M6 provides a more serene experience, with great noise insulation and nary a ruffle from the fabric. The leather-wrapped everything inside the BMW feels at least four times richer than the ZL1’s interior trimmings."

C/D trolling again...

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Never in my life will I choose a Camaro over a BMW.

 

[dankenstien88]

i agree that alot of cats is doggin da hell outta da V6 joints, but hey you need a volume seller so da high performance options continue to be a option.

i been a proponent on best bang for your buck on cars on NT for as long as i can remember, im glad da editorial is leaning towards value VS luxury. cuz at da end of da day

when you hit that gas pedal and feel that torque, thats what really paying for that car..da gimmicks is just that, gimmicks.

I def agree with you, anybody who doesn't say that Americans offer the best bang for your buck are just pure haters.

BUT you also get what you pay for. American cars have gotten more reliable over the years but the **** are still holding the game down in terms of reliability. And that is something I'd be willing to pay extra for.

And in terms of getting the most out of an engine, imports have it on lock. 

For an example, the VQ Nissan engine (the one in the Z) is a 3.5/3.7 V6 that offers around 300 HP. And it puts up eerie similar numbers as the mustang GT which is a 4.9 V8. 

Granted they have a huge difference in weights, but you get the point. 

I am tired though of a lot of dudes on here not giving Americans the respect they rightfully deserve

Totally agree that American cars provide the best value by a long shot. I also agree that many people dont give them the respect they deserve... especially here on NT .


But when it comes to getting the "most" out of an engine its really all relative and nothing much more than the tuning. Tons of modern V6s are getting close to or over 300hp but as you said HP isnt everything. Its the torque rating and curb weight that really effect a cars acceleration. Most modern V6 engines acheive their seemingly high horsepower numbers through top end tuning meaning these engines sacrifice much of their low end torque in exchange for more HPat high speeds. These cars dont even begin to wind up until 5k rpm... Some people refer to this as "European" or "German tuning" because when driving on the Autobahn @ 110 with no speed limit in sight it is very bennificial to have as much top end power as possible... But in the US with speed limits of 75mph or lower this kind of tuning little benifit other than bragging rights... so yeah the company might advertise 315 hp but in regular driving conditions in the US most people never rev their engine up high enough to get anywhere close to 300. So unless your racing on the autobahn ripping the engine from 5k to redline the extra horsies could actually cause you to loose a race.




BTW a Mustang GT has 420hp & 400 lb ft tq compared to the G37s 330hp & measly 270 lb ft tq. GT is also full second faster than a G37 0-60... I wouldnt really consider that eerie similar.

 

[af1 1982]

Totally agree that American cars provide the best value by a long shot. I also agree that many people dont give them the respect they deserve... especially here on NT

.
But when it comes to getting the "most" out of an engine its really all relative and nothing much more than the tuning. Tons of modern V6s are getting close to or over 300hp but as you said HP isnt everything. Its the torque rating and curb weight that really effect a cars acceleration. Most modern V6 engines acheive their seemingly high horsepower numbers through top end tuning meaning these engines sacrifice much of their low end torque in exchange for more HPat high speeds. These cars dont even begin to wind up until 5k rpm... Some people refer to this as "European" or "German tuning" because when driving on the Autobahn @ 110 with no speed limit in sight it is very bennificial to have as much top end power as possible... But in the US with speed limits of 75mph or lower this kind of tuning little benifit other than bragging rights... so yeah the company might advertise 315 hp but in regular driving conditions in the US most people never rev their engine up high enough to get anywhere close to 300. So unless your racing on the autobahn ripping the engine from 5k to redline the extra horsies could actually cause you to loose a race.
BTW a Mustang GT has 420hp & 400 lb ft tq compared to the G37s 330hp & measly 270 lb ft tq. GT is also full second faster than a G37 0-60... I wouldnt really consider that eerie similar.

I meant the 370z when I mentioned the VQ. 

 

[putting in work]

Living in a country where you can get a $400+ fine for driving 75mph+ and get arrested for driving 100+ Ill take comfort+reliability over power especially with our traffic congested highways. Sorry ninja.

But american muscle from the 60s-70s>>>>>>

Reliability and BMW should not be in the same sentence unless your stating how unreliable they are.

Truer words have never been spoken... I would only consider buying one on a lease that was covered under a full warranty.

I've known way to many people that's had a handful of expensive headaches with their BMW's, and they always equate it to... "I don't care I'm still in a Bimmer Yo"

"The BMW is the better car by nearly every measure. Its structure feels far stiffer than the Camaro’s shell, immediately imparting a superior sense of driver control. Top up, the M6 provides a more serene experience, with great noise insulation and nary a ruffle from the fabric. The leather-wrapped everything inside the BMW feels at least four times richer than the ZL1’s interior trimmings."

C/D trolling again...

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Never in my life will I choose a Camaro over a BMW.

That's because you're a brand hoor and you're mind is programmed by society and popular opinion that the BMW is superior because of it's status and the elite status that comes with owning one.

 

[00david00]

speaking of speed limit laws. pardon my ignorance on this subject, but wouldn't or shouldn't car manufacturers (american ones at least) somehow be liable for creating cars capable of going 100-150+ mph over any legal speed limit?

It's like gun manufacturers. Guns don't kill people, people kill people

well guns have their use in some cases like self defense, and therefore you won't be guilty.

going 100-150 though can't really make the same argument


not for gov setting limits on cars though. jussayin

 

[sofa king awsm]

been reading that issue in the bathroom for a while already. M6 all day. Camaro has beast power doe.

m6 has luxury and power in a refined package dat looks

 

[dankenstien88]

Totally agree that American cars provide the best value by a long shot. I also agree that many people dont give them the respect they deserve... especially here on NT .

But when it comes to getting the "most" out of an engine its really all relative and nothing much more than the tuning. Tons of modern V6s are getting close to or over 300hp but as you said HP isnt everything. Its the torque rating and curb weight that really effect a cars acceleration. Most modern V6 engines acheive their seemingly high horsepower numbers through top end tuning meaning these engines sacrifice much of their low end torque in exchange for more HPat high speeds. These cars dont even begin to wind up until 5k rpm... Some people refer to this as "European" or "German tuning" because when driving on the Autobahn @ 110 with no speed limit in sight it is very bennificial to have as much top end power as possible... But in the US with speed limits of 75mph or lower this kind of tuning little benifit other than bragging rights... so yeah the company might advertise 315 hp but in regular driving conditions in the US most people never rev their engine up high enough to get anywhere close to 300. So unless your racing on the autobahn ripping the engine from 5k to redline the extra horsies could actually cause you to loose a race.
BTW a Mustang GT has 420hp

I meant the 370z when I mentioned the VQ. 

Same motor and tune as g37, the 370 just weighs a few lbs less.

Thats also just a 2010 Stang, 2010 GTs still had the old 4.6. 2011 made some serious upgrades to the drivetrain. Im actually suprised it did as well as it did.

 

[41239]

saw Da in the title and knew it was ninja

LMAO, really doe, but that along with camaro is what told me

convertibles are for lames doe, trynna stunt with that **** will get yo pride hurt around here (im snatchin errthang you got at the light)

 

[jrdnsrnss]

I meant the 370z when I mentioned the VQ. 

Sad part is the Mustang kept up in 0-60 and 1/4 mile with the old 4.6L 315 HP V8. Braking was better in the Mustang too, yeah by only a foot but it's still better. Throw a 2011+ Mustang GT with the new 412-420 5.0L and that Z will get thrashed.

 

[af1 1982]

Sad part is the Mustang kept up in 0-60 and 1/4 mile with the old 4.6L 315 HP V8. Braking was better in the Mustang too, yeah by only a foot but it's still better. Throw a 2011+ Mustang GT with the new 412-420 5.0L and that Z will get thrashed.

It probably would beat it. But thrashed? Nah. I'd rather get a 370z which can handle MUCH better than the Stang. Yeah Americans have improved their suspensions, stability, etc. but they are no where near **** when it comes to that (except for GMs magnetic suspension). I need a car I can whip around corners with. That's just me. There's no right or wrong answer, again personal preference.

And my point is that Nissans V6 is similar to Fords V8 for the GT. Yeah the car is lighter but it also has ~1L less displacement and two less cylinders. The VQ is one of the best engines, if not the best engine we have seen in the last decade

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/800...q-v6-so-fast-compared-to-more-powe/index.html

"The VQ series engine was honored by Ward's 10 Best Engineslist almost every year from the list's inception." - from wiki

Americans deliver the best bang for your buck absolutely without a doubt. But you gotta give credit to Nissan with the VQ, it is truly something else

 

[ricky409]

Speaking of all this horsepower and torque ...

If anyone ever owned one of these cars, do you ever get to use it?

I'm a motorcycle enthusiast ... but getting up to 140 has its uses...

Not sure in a car doe...

 

[af1 1982]

Sad part is the Mustang kept up in 0-60 and 1/4 mile with the old 4.6L 315 HP V8. Braking was better in the Mustang too, yeah by only a foot but it's still better. Throw a 2011+ Mustang GT with the new 412-420 5.0L and that Z will get thrashed.

This sentence should read:

"Sad thing is the Z kept up in 0-60 and 1/4 mile with a 3.7L 332 HP V6 while the Mustang has a 4.6L 315HP V8"

That is what I'm trying to get at here

 

[af1 1982]

Speaking of all this horsepower and torque ...
If anyone ever owned one of these cars, do you ever get to use it?
I'm a motorcycle enthusiast ... but getting up to 140 has its uses...
Not sure in a car doe...

Rarely do people use that much power 

 unless they take it to the track. If everything goes as planned, I plan on getting a 370 as soon as I graduate and a few months into a new job. And I'm going to absolutely take it to the track on the weekends 

 

[Betonblck]

nvm

 

[af1 1982]

I'm talking about times. Not HP.

And yeah, I'm not denying the fact that Americans deliver great power, especially for the amount of money. I'm a huge fan of the new Mustangs, esp their MPG. And I'm pretty sure the 2013 Mustang GT is faster than the 370z, I'm not denying that either. 

The point I'm trying to make, is that it is just astonishing that the VQ can deliver that much power out of a V6. And that the 370z(V6) competes with a Mustang GT (V and not the regular Stand (V6).

 

[winged wheel]

once upon a time more people didn't look overseas for products because buying domestic was not only a quality purchase, but also a boost in our economy.

me knowing this i always try to support domestic, but above all that i do look for da best bang for your buck, hence why im a android/samsung user vs a iphone user

I figured you just always liked to go against Da grain.

 

[af1 1982]

I figured you just always liked to go against Da grain.

 Yeah he likes going against da grain but sometimes that's a good thing ya know. Thinking for yourself instead of letting someone else think for you

Also I might like imports better but I just have appreciation for the engineering and design that goes into (sports) cars in general. The thing I hate is when people don't buy Imports because they are too patriotic or solely because they are not American. Or vice versa. I appreciate all kinds of cars, regardless of its country of origin

 

[tsamshox]

Don't matter....da trims/interiors and handling are trash on domestics, b.