Am I right to believe that God is also a vengeful god?

[essential1]

person who thinks Easter and Christmas are still holidays of Jesus is delusional. They haven't for years. Celebrating Christmas now is celebrating a fatwhite guy in a red suit with 9 reindeer. Celebrating Easter is celebrating a chocolate bunny who lays eggs.


To say god is almighty creator leads you to a road block if you take they bible literally. 1. That would mean god created gay people. If being gay is a sinthen why would god create gay people? 2. Thou shall not kill is a commandment, yet god kills his own son. That is why this story is highly unlikely. Not thepart of Jesus being crucified. But the rationale that it was to absolve us for are sins.

People who take the Bible literally or even half way literally don't get the point and are doing a higher injustice to god than people who actuallydon't believe in god.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Essential1

person who thinks Easter and Christmas are still holidays of Jesus is delusional. They haven't for years. Celebrating Christmas now is celebrating a fat white guy in a red suit with 9 reindeer. Celebrating Easter is celebrating a chocolate bunny who lays eggs.

Originally, they weren't even Christian holidays. It is quite known they were pagan celebrations and Christians took them to incorporate theminto Christianity.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by Essential1

person who thinks Easter and Christmas are still holidays of Jesus is delusional. They haven't for years. Celebrating Christmas now is celebrating a fat white guy in a red suit with 9 reindeer. Celebrating Easter is celebrating a chocolate bunny who lays eggs.

Originally, they weren't even Christian holidays. It is quite known they were pagan celebrations and Christians took them to incorporate them into Christianity.

All religion is, is jacking ideas from other religions, that's why trusting the sacred scriptures of religion is basically like following thestory of Puff The Magic Dragon as historical events. That is why the best way is to put down the Bible, Koran, etc. etc. and form your own version of god.Because if there is a god that stuff in the sacred scriptures is more of a sin than any other sin. God would want people to define what he means to YOU notwhat others tell you what he is supposed to mean to you.

Also hard religious people are so quick to judge, they are going against god. God is the only one allowed to judge, and judging in his name is calling yourselfa higher power.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if less religious/atheists are accepted into heaven first. Because heavily religious people commit so much sin in the name ofgod.

 

[rizzo da one]

I just typed a whole book but it was erased and I don't feel like retyping the whole thing. In the bible it does say God is jealous God, and he does getrevenge on people so to say. We are created in his image so he would have some the same emotions that we have. We also have the power to shape our destinythrough thought (faith). IMO, everything good or bad is brought to you by your own thoughts and actions.

 

[Moderngz]

when you punish a kid you hate to do it but the child learns. God hates to punish us but its for our own good. and God is a jealous God when you worship idols.example virgin mary and so on.

 

[hangtight]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by HangTight

If you don't mind me asking, what was it that made you wonder away from Islam?

I was in a long term relationship with a non-Islamic man (he was of a Roman Catholic background, but non-practicing and more agnostic), and it opened up my eyes to a lot about organized religion. One of the biggest burdens between him and I was that since I was of an Islamic background, my parents would strongly disapprove and disown me if I were to marry him. So, I started to look at the bigger picture, think about religion, and do a lot of research. I gained so much knowledge through my research and saw what organized religion was truly created for and began to believe it was man-made. So, it was not completely that I was in an interfaith relationship that changed my perspective, but it did set it off.

I also just realized how organized religion was so judgemenal and it made people of different religions and backgrounds more divided rather than united. The intolerance it breeds is just phenomenal and I think it is behind some of the rifts in spearheading wars and conflicts.

Relationships here in America are hardparticularly for Muslims. I can see why your parents would have a problem marrying a non-Muslim. Inter-marriage between Muslims and non-Muslims is something that has been clearlyprohibited in the Qur'an and Sunnah, thus not permissible in any way.

Thereason behind this is that, marital relationships demand mutual love, affection and intimacy and without this, the purpose of marriage is left unfulfilled. Ifsuch close relationship of love and intimacy is established with a non-Muslim, it may emotionally incline a Muslim towards disbelief (kufr) or, at least, theabhorrence of Kufr and Shirk may not remain in the heart.

As far as Islam being manmade I haveto question your motives and research on that. The Qur'an was given to mankind about 1400 years ago and in the Qur'an they have many references toscience and technology that we are just learning today. There is far too much in the Qur'an for one man to ever know. For Example:

What has been mentioned about the bigbang has already been mentioned in the Qur'an - Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that weexploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe? [21:3

The Light of the moon is it, its ownlight or a reflected light? It wasn't until a couple hundred years ago that we first found out that the light from the moon is not its own light but areflected light. - Most blessed is the One who placed constellations in the sky, and placed in it a lamp (a sun) having its own light, and a moonhaving a reflected light (borrowed light). [25:61]

The world we live on we first thoughtit was flat. But it wasn't until 1597 I believe that Francis Drake sailed around the world then proved it was spherical. But the Qur'an has alreadymentioned this - Allah made the earth egg-shaped. [79:3 Meaning it is not completely round but spherical like an egg.

The sun rotating in its own axis.-And He is the One who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; each floating in its own orbit. [21:33]

The Universe is still being expanded.We constructed the sky with our hands, and we will continue to expand it. [51:47]

The water cycle is mentioned inseveral places in the Qur'an in great detail. And I can go on and on plants having its own sex's male and female, mountains which keep the world fromshaking, biology, zoology, embryological stages, and a bunch of other scientific facts.

So what I am trying to say is how theQur'an could have all these things mentioned that we are finding out recently mentioned 1400 years ago. It has to be Allah who let us know back then, whatwe are finding out today.

 

[kix4kix]

I still don't get how people don't separate God, and religion. If God is a vengeful God to you, then that is none of my business.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by HangTight

I disagree.

Truly, if there is a tolerant God, what is the crime in two people of different faiths being in love and together? To me, it absolutely no different thanintermixed relationships that are shunned, and I find it quite prejudice.

Also, as with Islam and other religions, the religious texts can only be interpreted to be what society made them out to be. As with Islam, it comes from apatriarchal society in which it is picked and tweeked to where it fits the culture's traditional ideals. So supposedly, it is allowed for a Muslim to marryoutside his faith, but not a Muslim woman? Nowhere does it claim a Muslim woman cannot marry outside her faith, it is just misinterpreted and twisted that way.

That is another thing I despise, who is to call anyone else "kufrs" (unbelievers), idolators, etc. as if they are inferior and scum? Literally, thatis how that term is used against others. It creates this whole "us" vs. "them" mentality and this superiority complex. Again, quiteprejudice and intolerant.

As with the Qur'an, I believe it was manmade and Prophet Mohammed was an epileptic genius poet. The Qur'an to me, is not as miraculous as it is madeout to be. As for the predictions and science, that can be said about all the other religious books too. Nothing groundbreaking. I also think that Islam wasformed based on the tradition of pagan Arabs of the time and of course, greatly influenced by Judaism and Christianity. However, I will say, the Qur'an isa literary masterpiece whose beauty, structure, and composition is still unmatched to this day in the Arabic literature. No doubt about that.

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

I still don't get how people don't separate God, and religion. If God is a vengeful God to you, then that is none of my business.

I think the problem stems from people not being able to accept that they won't "hear God" directly. So they use religion as thebasis of "communication" to fill the void.

There were also things like The Inquisition helped push this form of thinking I'm sure.

When I look at the world I live in, I can only cope by believing that we are but a rough draft on the road of God's pursuit of perfection. I think at bestwe are a distant memory to him as he strives to complete his masterpiece elsewhere in the universe. Or maybe in an entirely new universe for that matter.

 

[hangtight]

First, Islam calls upon allpeople to join hands and to co-operate with each other regardless of their creedal affiliations as long as all work for the betterment of humanity and there isno harm inflicted as a result of such co-operation. Of all the existing religions, Jews and Christians possess a very special status in Islam. Islam allowedthe Muslim to marry a woman from among the People of the Book, but a Muslim woman, on the other hand, is NOT permitted to have a non-Muslim man as her husband.The reason is that usually the sons and daughters are ascribed to the father, and Islam's ruling is that the son or the daughter should follow Islam.

I would like to stress that Islam is the true religion of Allah. Muslims, are enjoined by the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, to believe in Jesusand Moses as Messengers of Allah, while the Jews and the Christians do not actually believe in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the last and the seal of all Prophetsand Messengers of Allah.

Having said this, I should add here that we are not separated as Muslims, Jews, and Christians by the Books of the same Creator but by the changes that some ofthe Rabbis and the Priests have made to the true teachings of Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

Finally, I hope that you study Islam from its main source; the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and not by looking at the behavior of some Muslims. I wish you allthe best.

Moreover, the prominent Saudi scholar Sheikh `Abdul-Rahman Al-Barrak, adds:

"It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a kafur (non-Muslim), whether he is Jewish, Christianor an atheist because the man has authority over his wife, and it is not permissible for a non-Muslim to haveauthority over a Muslim woman. There are decisive texts from the Qur'an which refer to the prohibition of such marriage. For example, Allah Almighty says,"And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al Mushrikun (atheists) till they believe (in Allah Alone)" (Al-Baqarah: 221)

 

[grandaddypurp415]

duh its obvious. if you dont follow his simple rules or apologize to him directly for breaking them, he will cast your soul to a dark firery eternity where youwill spend that buring and being tortured. sounds pretty vengeful to me

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by HangTight


First, Islam calls upon all people to join hands and to co-operate with each other regardless of their creedal affiliations as long as all work for the betterment of humanity and there is no harm inflicted as a result of such co-operation. Of all the existing religions, Jews and Christians possess a very special status in Islam. Islam allowed the Muslim to marry a woman from among the People of the Book, but a Muslim woman, on the other hand, is NOT permitted to have a non-Muslim man as her husband. The reason is that usually the sons and daughters are ascribed to the father, and Islam's ruling is that the son or the daughter should follow Islam.

Of course, it accepts Christianity and Judaism since Islam is rooted from those religions. However, Islam still mainstains today that theChristianity and Judaism of today have been tarnished and not confined to their origins. Moreover, they imply that the religious textbooks have been tamperedwith and that Islam is the true religion.

I would like to stress that Islam is the true religion of Allah. Muslims, are enjoined by the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, to believe in Jesus and Moses as Messengers of Allah, while the Jews and the Christians do not actually believe in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the last and the seal of all Prophets and Messengers of Allah.

Having said this, I should add here that we are not separated as Muslims, Jews, and Christians by the Books of the same Creator but by the changes that some of the Rabbis and the Priests have made to the true teachings of Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

Finally, I hope that you study Islam from its main source; the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and not by looking at the behavior of some Muslims. I wish you all the best.

Moreover, the prominent Saudi scholar Sheikh `Abdul-Rahman Al-Barrak, adds:

"It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a kafur (non-Muslim), whether he is Jewish, Christian or an atheist because the man has authority over his wife, and it is not permissible for a non-Muslim to have authority over a Muslim woman. There are decisive texts from the Qur'an which refer to the prohibition of such marriage. For example, Allah Almighty says, "And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al Mushrikun (atheists) till they believe (in Allah Alone)" (Al-Baqarah: 221)

So, since the man is the head of the household and in the culture, the children bear and take his name, so thatis why they can marry outside the faith? Doesn't that give them some sort of higher status? In Judaism, it is in reverse, it is the women who can marryoutside the faith since the lineage is seen to be followed through them. Again, it all comes down to cultural traditions, and religious textbooks are used tojustify that tradition.

Infact, with children, unless they live in an Islamic country, they tend to take after the mother who is the one that raises them. It happens a lot ininterfaith marriages with Muslim men and I see it where they live in Western countries. If the wife did not convert, the children most likely take after themother's religion and culture. So, I think that argument about men being head of the household is null and void.

As the quote, passage you posted...It says "mushrikin", in other translations is coded as "unbelievers",which means kufr, then who are theyexactly? How can it apply to Christians and Jews, or other faiths? I thought Christians and Jews were people of the Book, so they surely cannot be classifiedunder mushrikin. Can you show you another passage where it says explicitly that Muslim women cannot marry Christians or Jews or from People of theBook?

Again, it all comes to religious scholars (mostly men) interpreting religious texts/passages that are 1400 years old and twisting them to fit their own idealsof patriarchal society to justify how society should operate and function.

 

[edz one]

What I was thinking about today was that all these gods we have in our holy books are human. Thus the world was created by somebody resembling a human, yet wecannot even reach or spread out to almost 100% of the universe that is supposedly man-made. Interesting points in this thread, funny cuz I'm writing asocratic dialogue about religion