Black and Hispanic Teens are having more chillun than Whites. vol: The system is misinforming us

[superantigen]

So i just read an article on yahoo that stated that Mississippi currently has the highest teen birth rate in the US. Furthermore, the next two states havingthe highest teen birth rate are states with large Black and Hispanic populations. Later on in the article, there is an assertion that white New England kidswould most likely delay childbirth than their southern minority peers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/a..._on_he_me/med_teen_births


Now clearly, the key phrase here is CHILD BIRTH at which point, I have no issues with the statistics. But for the mostpart, I'm very pessimistic that most readers will look at the stats and realize that it's only valid in the context of Child Birth.

Instead, I fear that many will read this article and come to conclusion that, Black and Hispanics (Minorities) teens are just more promiscuous, uneducated, andundisciplined when it comes to sexual intercourse relative to their selective, educated, and disciplined white peers.

They CDC has also released very similar reports with regards to STD prevalence among the various groups and wouldn't you know--Blacks and Hispanics rankhigh in most categories whereas whites "supposedly" rank lower.

Am I the only one that feels this kind of data is in a way biased and HIGHLY misleading...

 

[dgk3188]

 

[mexicansoul]

speaking as a latino...its more of our culture embracing child birth... our folks get mad if we knock up (males) or get knocked up (females) initially but thencomes the planning for whats best for the unborn child.

I have a feeling...white teens are more prone to abortion. My boy who is a pharm tech tells me he gets a lot of underage white chicks coming in with guys forplan b.

 

[josebronx]

MexicanSoul wrote:

---

speaking as a latino...its more of our culture embracing child birth... our folks get mad if we knock up (males) or get knocked up (females) initially but then comes the planning for whats best for the unborn child.

I have a feeling...white teens are more prone to abortion. My boy who is a pharm tech tells me he gets a lot of underage white chicks coming in with guys for plan b.
they plan us the wedding and everything

 

[dirtylicious]

full article -

ATLANTA - Mississippi now has the nation's highest teen pregnancy rate, displacing Texas and New Mexico for that lamentable title, according to a new federal report released Wednesday.

Mississippi's rate was more than 60 percent higher than the national average in 2006, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. The teen pregnancy rate in Texas and New Mexico was more than 50 percent higher.

The three states have large proportions of black and Hispanic teenagers - groups that traditionally have higher birth rates, experts noted.

The lowest teen birth rates continue to be in New England, where three states have teen birth rates at just half the national average.

It's not clear why Mississippi surged into first place. The state's one-year increase of nearly 1,000 teen births could be a statistical blip, said Ron Cossman, a Mississippi State University researcher who focuses on children's health statistics.

More than a year ago, a preliminary report on the 2006 data revealed that the U.S. teen birth rate had risen for the first time in about 15 years. But the new numbers provide the first state-by-state information on the increase.

The new report is based on a review of all the birth certificates in 2006. Significant increases in teen birth rates were noted in 26 states.

"It's pretty much across the board" nationally, said Brady Hamilton, a CDC statistician who worked on the report.

About 435,000 of the nation's 4.3 million births in 2006 were to mothers ages 15 through 19. That was about 21,000 more teen births than in 2005.

Numerically, the largest increases were in the states with the largest populations. California, Texas and Florida together generated almost 30 percent of the nation's extra teen births in 2006.

Some experts have blamed the national increase on increased federal funding for abstinence-only health education that does not teach teens how to use condoms and other contraception. They said that would explain why teen birth rate increases have been detected across much of the country and not just in a few spots.

There is debate about that, however. Some conservative organizations have argued that contraceptive-focused sex education is still common, and that the new teen birth numbers reflect it is failing.

Other factors include the escalating cost of some types of birth control and their unavailability in some communities, said Stephanie Birch, who directs maternal and child health programs for the Alaska Department of Health and Social Services.

Glowing media portrayals of celebrity pregnancies don't help, either, she said. "They make it out to be very glamorous," said Birch, who cited a calculation by Alaska officials that teen pregnancies were up 6 percent in that state in 2006.

In Mississippi, there were about 68 births for every 1,000 women, ages 15 through 19 in 2006. The New Mexico rate was 64 per 1,000; Texas was 63.

The national birth rate for females in that age group was about 42 per 1,000. New Hampshire, with a rate of 19 per 1,000, was the nation's lowest.

A variety of factors influence teen pregnancy rates, including culture, poverty and racial demographics. For those and other reasons, kids in mostly white New England likely would delay child birth, said David Landry, a researcher at the Guttmacher Institute, a New York-based organization which supports abortion rights and gathers research on sexual and reproductive health.

"It's more costly for youth in the Northeast to have a teen birth than for youth in the South, in terms of opportunities they'll miss," he said.

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by MexicanSoul

speaking as a latino...its more of our culture embracing child birth... our folks get mad if we knock up (males) or get knocked up (females) initially but then comes the planning for whats best for the unborn child.

I have a feeling...white teens are more prone to abortion. My boy who is a pharm tech tells me he gets a lot of underage white chicks coming in with guys for plan b.

Plan B is not abortion.

 

[dublbagn]

Even though I try to not believe statistics, these do not shock me in any way.....

lets look at the basics...

if you look at the united states most low income teens (any age group for that matter) are more like to have sex at an early age...
sexual intercourse does lead to child birth (if the proper precautions are not taken ie condoms or birth control) also the more often you have unprotected sexthe better chances you have at getting an STD...

so add that to the fact that most low income areas are populated by minorities....(even though there are tons of low income areas that are predominantlywhite)...the basic logic track states that the statistics are correct....

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by MexicanSoul

speaking as a latino...its more of our culture embracing child birth... our folks get mad if we knock up (males) or get knocked up (females) initially but then comes the planning for whats best for the unborn child.

I have a feeling...white teens are more prone to abortion. My boy who is a pharm tech tells me he gets a lot of underage white chicks coming in with guys for plan b.

Exactly why i feel releases like these are very misleading. They give the impression the minority teens are the ones being"irresponsible" when in reality, our white counterparts are just as irresponsible--if not more (something I am pretty sure about).

Chances are if you can afford plan B or have the option to terminate pregnancy, you won't be too careful or conservative when it comes to sexualintercourse (imo). So while Debbie is getting knocked up at least three times a year, she won't be delivering any children because her pharmacist has hercovered. Meanwhile, Shaquanda or Amarellis-- whose socio-economic status makes it somewhat difficult to pay for an abortion or the bill-- have no choice but tohave the baby...

And don't even get me started on the politics of the whole situation...

 

[datznasty]

You guys are acting like it's just a vast number of white females out their getting abortions

My cross the street neighbor is 17 though and has had 2,but that's beside the point. She be getting smashed out right in their car in the driveway while her parents are in the house.l

Biggest factor to me has to just be the physical of it. I know a lot of people will want to mention rap music too but statistics have proven everybody listensto that at the same rate. Minority girls physically develop mad early nowadays, and therefore just appear ready for sex earlier. I got a message on myspace oneday from some chic who I'm looking at in the thumbnail like, "Damn, who is this shorty?" turned out it was my 15 year old cousin, for example.

Also, why did you write chillun in the title?

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by MexicanSoul

speaking as a latino...its more of our culture embracing child birth... our folks get mad if we knock up (males) or get knocked up (females) initially but then comes the planning for whats best for the unborn child.

I have a feeling...white teens are more prone to abortion. My boy who is a pharm tech tells me he gets a lot of underage white chicks coming in with guys for plan b.

Exactly why i feel releases like these are very misleading. They give the impression the minority teens are the ones being "irresponsible" when in reality, our white counterparts are just as irresponsible--if not more (something I am pretty sure about).

Chances are if you can afford plan B or have the option to terminate pregnancy, you won't be too careful or conservative when it comes to sexual intercourse (imo). So while Debbie is getting knocked up at least three times a year, she won't be delivering any children because her pharmacist has her covered. Meanwhile, Shaquanda or Amarellis-- whose socio-economic status makes it somewhat difficult to pay for an abortion or the bill-- have no choice but to have the baby...

And don't even get me started on the politics of the whole situation...

Plan B is free in many (if not all) states at teen pregnancy clinics, and at worst it's $50. It takes a lot more money than that to raise achild.

Socio-economic factors surely play a role in this, but the price of Plan B should hardly be an excuse.

 

[raptors29]

That's how statistics always are. They're usually very misleading.

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Now clearly, the key phrase here is CHILD BIRTH at which point, I have no issues with the statistics. But for the most part, I'm very pessimistic that most readers will look at the stats and realize that it's only valid in the context of Child Birth.

Instead, I fear that many will read this article and come to conclusion that, Black and Hispanics (Minorities) teens are just more promiscuous, uneducated, and undisciplined when it comes to sexual intercourse relative to their selective, educated, and disciplined white peers.

It's not fair to assume that the group that's birthing more children is a) having more sex, or b) having more unprotected sex than groupswith lower rates of child birth?

Unless, of course, you'd like to counteract an assumption that you believe to be wrong with an assumption of your own regarding whites and abortion, whichyou clearly did above.

Super.

 

[superantigen]

Even though I try to not believe statistics, these do not shock me in any way.....

lets look at the basics...

if you look at the united states most low income teens (any age group for that matter) are more like to have sex at an early age...
sexual intercourse does lead to child birth (if the proper precautions are not taken ie condoms or birth control) also the more often you have unprotected sex the better chances you have at getting an STD...

so add that to the fact that most low income areas are populated by minorities....(even though there are tons of low income areas that are predominantly white)...the basic logic track states that the statistics are correct....
Def disagree with you there. Kids having sex at an earlier age has nothing to do with income (socio-economic) status. Rich kids are just as apt tohave sex as poor kids. The real difference comes with respect to the consequences of such acts. Rich kids can prevent the consequences whereas their poor peerscannot. Now I'm saying this with the assumption that the first line of defense (condoms) has been breached. Heck even if they didn't use condoms, richkids still have the resources available to them to hinder or prevent the consequences--poor kids do not.

Yes the statistics given in the article seem sound but only with respect to CHILD BIRTH. But at the same time, as isthe case with many of these kind of articles, there is often an underlying message that implies that minorities are beinn ignorant when it comes to sexualpractices which is very misleading if not false.

 

[superantigen]

Plan B is free in many (if not all) states at teen pregnancy clinics, and at worst it's $50. It takes a lot more money than that to raise a child.

Socio-economic factors surely play a role in this, but the price of Plan B should hardly be an excuse.
Good point. But understand that it's all relative as well. At the very least consider that the article looked at the state of Mississippi. Doyou know how economically awful things are in Mississippi. Personally, I didn't know plan B was $50 so i suppose that if i knocked some chick up--living inone of the wealthiest counties in US, i could easily afford that.

But like i said, it's all relative. Just because I can afford a $50 pill doesn't mean someone else can--even someone living my wealthy county.Furthermore, I recall reading in another thread (i think the one where dude said he got his girl preggo) that 1 pill = $50. Now lets be honest, kids don'thave sex once and call it a day. Also I think we can agree that often, the lack of proper sexual education has something to do with this phenomenon.

Point is, if you have two sexually uneducated couples--one couple (A) hailing from my county (Fairfield County) and the other (B) hailing from some"poor" county in Mississippi-- regardless of how many times couple A screws up because of sexual ignorance, they can afford (most likely) as many $50plan B bills as they like--word to popping 'em like skittles.

Couple B on the other hand, just as ignorant (sexually) as couple A, cannot afford as many $50 birth control pills as their peers in Fairfield County. Soreally, in the long run, that $50 dollar pill you "see as no excuse", cannot be said for many of these teenagers in impoverished States. But thiswhole argument is nullified if Plan B is indeed free in many states (news to me).

But now I present you with this question, "how many of these teens hailing from low income areas do you think know about Plan B". I only found outabout plan B when i got to college and only really learned about it through Niketalk...Consider that.

It's not fair to assume that the group that's birthing more children is a) having more sex, or b) having more unprotected sex than groups with lower rates of child birth?

Unless, of course, you'd like to counteract an assumption that you believe to be wrong with an assumption of your own regarding whites and abortion, which you clearly did above.

Super.
I never assumed that. In fact, what I am saying is that these statistics are misleading and the consequence of such deception will be peopleassuming that the groups birthing more children are in fact having more sex and having more unprotected sex than the other group. That's my whole issuewith this...

 

[mexicansoul]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

Originally Posted by MexicanSoul

speaking as a latino...its more of our culture embracing child birth... our folks get mad if we knock up (males) or get knocked up (females) initially but then comes the planning for whats best for the unborn child.

I have a feeling...white teens are more prone to abortion. My boy who is a pharm tech tells me he gets a lot of underage white chicks coming in with guys for plan b.

Plan B is not abortion.

i know.. I was typing quick and didnt word it right...i meant to type it out as a separate reason.

 

[integra owner]

This doesn't surprise me living in the south. These kids are just screwing more and earlier. However, even if you throw out the socio-economic view of thesituation, most latino kids are catholic and do not believe in abortion at all. Mississippi is in the bible belt of the south and many of the kids are southernbaptists and also are taught never to end a child's life. It's not just about the disparity in money, but more about the teaching that they receivefrom their surroundings. In contrast, more white children are more to go through with the abortion.

 

[jjsrf]

see when we use words like 'chillun' i can understand why


i kid, i kid

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

It's not fair to assume that the group that's birthing more children is a) having more sex, or b) having more unprotected sex than groups with lower rates of child birth?

Unless, of course, you'd like to counteract an assumption that you believe to be wrong with an assumption of your own regarding whites and abortion, which you clearly did above.

Super.

I never assumed that. In fact, what I am saying is that these statistics are misleading and the consequence of such deception will be people assuming that the groups birthing more children are in fact having more sex and having more unprotected sex than the other group. That's my whole issue with this...


I'm not sure we're on the same page here.

It's not fair to assume that the group that's birthing more children is a) having more sex, or b) having more unprotected sex than groups with lower rates of child birth?

From reading your first post, you believe that the above red, quoted text is an unfair assumption based upon the statistics in the article, yes?

But your only counterpoint is your own assumption that whites have more abortions than blacks or latinos, thus skewing the data to make it appear as if whiteshave less sex, or have more protected sex, than the aforementioned minority groups.

All I'm saying is, you can't counteract what you believe to be an unfair assumption with an unfair assumption of your own.

Had you posted this (granted, it's from 1996, but still...), itwould've been easier to justify your viewpoint.

Research, !%@%$!%$!!%$! Research!

 

[thizzbaby]

that article is using something called "monkey math" they are being biased, mabe without even realizing it

one main reason latin and black teens may account for "more" child births is because there ARE MORE hispanic and black teens in the population. ifthey were trying to show true statstics they would have shown the percentage of child births in proportion to the population. and i bet the percent would bearound the same..

sorry if its confusing i hope someone gets my thinking...

 

[superantigen]

From reading your first post, you believe that the above red, quoted text is an unfair assumption based upon the statistics in the article, yes?
Yes...

But your only counterpoint is your own assumption that whites have more abortions than blacks or latinos, thus skewing the data to make it appear as if whites have less sex, or have more protected sex, than the aforementioned minority groups.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. Although I phrased it somewhere along the lines of "the data is skewed to make it appear asthough blacks and Hispanics (minorities) are having more unprotected sex"...this clearly a case of ToMaTo, TOmaTA...same thing in the end.

All I'm saying is, you can't counteract what you believe to be an unfair assumption with an unfair assumption of your own.
Thanks for the info. But, what makes you think my counter-argument was an "unfair assumption" to begin with. Notice how I also referencesimilar reports on STD rates. That should have been a clue that I'm in depth with reports like this. No assumptions here bro, I know my facts...

Had you posted this (granted, it's from 1996, but still...), it would've been easier to justify your viewpoint.
So then what's your point. I'm not trying to justify my view points as though my foundation of my knowledge (with respect to this subject)is fractured. I know my facts and you clearly just posted a link that proves me right, and ultimately corroborates what you deemed as an "unfairassumption" on my part. Thanks for contradicting yourself.

that article is using something called "monkey math" they are being biased, mabe without even realizing it

one main reason latin and black teens may account for "more" child births is because there ARE MORE hispanic and black teens in the population. if they were trying to show true statstics they would have shown the percentage of child births in proportion to the population. and i bet the percent would be around the same..

sorry if its confusing i hope someone gets my thinking...
Can you please elaborate--

 

[eight2one]

im shocked i made it out of my teens without a kids.....took a lot of plan b!

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Plan B is free in many (if not all) states at teen pregnancy clinics, and at worst it's $50. It takes a lot more money than that to raise a child.

Socio-economic factors surely play a role in this, but the price of Plan B should hardly be an excuse.

Good point. But understand that it's all relative as well. At the very least consider that the article looked at the state of Mississippi. Do you know how economically awful things are in Mississippi. Personally, I didn't know plan B was $50 so i suppose that if i knocked some chick up--living in one of the wealthiest counties in US, i could easily afford that.

But like i said, it's all relative. Just because I can afford a $50 pill doesn't mean someone else can--even someone living my wealthy county. Furthermore, I recall reading in another thread (i think the one where dude said he got his girl preggo) that 1 pill = $50. Now lets be honest, kids don't have sex once and call it a day. Also I think we can agree that often, the lack of proper sexual education has something to do with this phenomenon.

Point is, if you have two sexually uneducated couples--one couple (A) hailing from my county (Fairfield County) and the other (B) hailing from some "poor" county in Mississippi-- regardless of how many times couple A screws up because of sexual ignorance, they can afford (most likely) as many $50 plan B bills as they like--word to popping 'em like skittles.

Couple B on the other hand, just as ignorant (sexually) as couple A, cannot afford as many $50 birth control pills as their peers in Fairfield County. So really, in the long run, that $50 dollar pill you "see as no excuse", cannot be said for many of these teenagers in impoverished States. But this whole argument is nullified if Plan B is indeed free in many states (news to me).

But now I present you with this question, "how many of these teens hailing from low income areas do you think know about Plan B". I only found out about plan B when i got to college and only really learned about it through Niketalk...Consider that.

It's not fair to assume that the group that's birthing more children is a) having more sex, or b) having more unprotected sex than groups with lower rates of child birth?

Unless, of course, you'd like to counteract an assumption that you believe to be wrong with an assumption of your own regarding whites and abortion, which you clearly did above.

Super.
I never assumed that. In fact, what I am saying is that these statistics are misleading and the consequence of such deception will be people assuming that the groups birthing more children are in fact having more sex and having more unprotected sex than the other group. That's my whole issue with this...



In deciding whether to keep the child or get Plan B, keeping the child is the more expensive choice 100% of the time. It just doesn't followthat the price of Plan B is a legitimate reason behind the higher birth rates in poorer teens.

I'd point to factors like a more strict adherence to Christianity (particularly among Hispanics) and the resulting disapproval of abortion, inadequate sexeducation, etc. over the price of Plan B.

OT: Where in Fairfield County? I have a lot of friends from around there.

 

[snaggykicks]

Originally Posted by raptors29

That's how statistics always are. They're usually very misleading.

 

[thizzbaby]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

that article is using something called "monkey math" they are being biased, mabe without even realizing it

one main reason latin and black teens may account for "more" child births is because there ARE MORE hispanic and black teens in the population. if they were trying to show true statstics they would have shown the percentage of child births in proportion to the population. and i bet the percent would be around the same..

sorry if its confusing i hope someone gets my thinking...
Can you please elaborate--

ok. ill do a simple example. excuse my bluntness. you have 10 white girls and 4 black girls. Half of each population (here the 10 and4) gets anabortion. so thats 5 white girls and 2 black girls got abortions. now the next year theres still 10 white girls but now there 8 black girls. half of eachpopulation gets an abortion, so now, for this year its 5 white girls got an abortion and 4 black girls got an abortion.

someone being biased would say this year african american abortions went up 200%!!!! (went from 2 abortions to 4 abortions) doing this is common in the media.someone watching it would say! "omg more blacks are getting abortions this year!" when realisticly, it did not change at all when considering theproportion of the entire population they make up. its just LOGIC because if theres more blacks in the population then of course there will be more abortions.

follow?

i just get all this because we studied it for about a week in statistics class, i dont look at the news the same anymore, a lot of it is just straightpropaganda.

 

[superantigen]

In deciding whether to keep the child or get Plan B, keeping the child is the more expensive choice 100% of the time. It just doesn't follow that the price of Plan B is a legitimate reason behind the higher birth rates in poorer teens.

I'd point to factors like a more strict adherence to Christianity (particularly among Hispanics) and the resulting disapproval of abortion, inadequate sex education, etc. over the price of Plan B.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. But at the same time, you cannot assume that plan B and its associative cost has no bearing in every single caseof teen birth in economically disadvantaged part of America. Thinking that way is highly irresponsible.

Only reason why i even mentioned Plan B was because someone else brought it up. But if you read my second post, no where do i hinge my argument exclusively onPlan B costs. I mentioned other factors--by referencing "other options". But like I said, to postulate that plan B cost is irrelevant in all casesleading to teenage birth is irresponsible.

Where in Fairfield County? I have a lot of friends from around there.
I live in Bridgeport which in my opinion, aint that bad of a "urban" city-- this is coming from a guy who use to live in NY. But thenagain, when you're surrounded by the ritz and glitz of towns such as Westport, Fairfield, Trumbull, Greenwich (and the list goes on), urban life can helpbut seem dark and grimy--as portrayed in our favorite Hood movies...

...

...

ThizzBaby
Ummm i think so...

Catholics!
Que?