Black neighborhood rejects Trader Joe's

[ice city fc]

Major props to the Portland African American Leadership Forum.  For the record, when the Trader Joe's & Whole Foods start coming in gentrification isn't a threat, it's very real and is already well underway. 

 

[Master Zik]

a. But who determines when a process has begun? Is there some sort of billboard that gets posted?

Gentrification is a historically and sociological event that occurs within society in various communities and it definitely does have a process. There is no who determing how the process is done, it goes step by step. You can look this up and actually learn it. It's basically:

1. Overcrowding
2. Cheap Land
3. Transportation
4. Work
5. People
6. Houses/Apt.

Then it happens all over again cuz the cycle is sick.

Not all steps are essential in modern day gentrification or the specific gentrification where it's rich ppl moving in to an urban area and establishments are setting up shop to acclimate those new residents while hindering competition but that's the gist of it. An area becomes overcrowded (and expensive) or no longer favored, they (rich ppl who own businesses) look for a cheap place to move to, usually an under developed area, on grander scales this is done by the private sector with support from the gov't, transportation is then organized and created to get to this cheap place (this is no longer a huge step given transportation is just about everywhere but it still happens for the bigger projects), some sort of employment and ensuing work force is established there to benefit (this isn't really necessary if we're talking rich ppl moving in to certain communities right outside of a city), then all types of ppl show up en masse while roughly at the same time apt. buildings and houses are built so that they can live there.

Not saying you should know this cuz they don't really teach this in hs and other than self study you'd have to take a course in like urban sociology or anthro or one of those similar fields to learn all of this and more.

 

[Brownstone]

Not saying you wrong Zik, but ObeahMyal7 was asking a rhetorical question.

 

[obeahmyal7]

 
Not saying you wrong Zik, but ObeahMyal7 was asking a rhetorical question.

Thank you. 

 

[youngtriz]

i like trader joes... and i used to live in north and north east portland.. whats wrong with place that can create more jobs especially for that area? if someone is not using a building that has been shut down for a while to "help the community with jobs" why cant someone else do it?

 

[smangalang]

between this and the black history lunch thread I'm floored at this 2014 idiocy.

 

[Brownstone]

i like trader joes... and i used to live in north and north east portland.. whats wrong with place that can create more jobs especially for that area? if someone is not using a building that has been shut down for a while to "help the community with jobs" why cant someone else do it?

It's easy to see why a neighborhood would not want it there. Gentrification is happening at an alarming rate across the country. And these same neighborhoods are being destroyed, yet when they defend themselves they're still being ridiculed. Trader Joes would employ literally maybe 10 people from the neighborhood.

Also, rent prices would raise quickly, property tax with it. 

 

[bigty23]

Sometimes people just get in their own way

 

[youngtriz]

i like trader joes... and i used to live in north and north east portland.. whats wrong with place that can create more jobs especially for that area? if someone is not using a building that has been shut down for a while to "help the community with jobs" why cant someone else do it?

It's easy to see why a neighborhood would not want it there. Gentrification is happening at an alarming rate across the country. And these same neighborhoods are being destroyed, yet when they defend themselves they're still being ridiculed. Trader Joes would employ literally maybe 10 people from the neighborhood.

Also, rent prices would raise quickly, property tax with it. 

north portland and north east portland needs money... the school systems in those areas are a joke because of funding.. middle school and high school all in one school because they couldnt afford to keep them opened.... section 8 is still available if you need help with rent.. lots of hipster neighborhoods started popping up that were in hood areas but the rent was still low... whats wrong with having a city with no "hood"

 

[c hanna]

as a person that does 90% of his grocery shopping at trader joes, theyre missing out

 

[HEATHEN]

Ducking? Let's move point by point. The quotes are your words, by the way. 

1. You state that its "not gentrification unless the process has already begun."
    
     a. But who determines when a process has begun? Is there some sort of billboard that gets posted? 

2. Opposition to TJ's an example of "crabs in a barrel."
   
     a. The metaphor is not apt. The metaphor assumes that everyone (existing residents, the wealthy, TJ's, etc) is confined to the same barrel. But             this contradicts your earlier "premise" about gentrification: as a battle over space between "wealthier individuals" and "pre-existing residents."            A more precise encapsulation is more like crabs getting dumped out of the barrel into foreign sea's.

3. That Trader Joe's can be a "boon" to the area and be a facilitator of gentrification are not contradictions. In fact they are quite    
    complementary. 

4. You're not a racist. Your just an ideologue who relies on racialized stereotypes. You are an ideologue in that you assume that upward mobility is       hindered by reliance on the state and that 'pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps' the way to achieve a decent standard of    
    living. Your declarations (i.e. "stop living off dat government cheese") not in the least reflect the racialization of poverty. 


5. Kudos. Knocking down public housing projects in favor of luxury condo's is a form of gentrification. But its not the only means by which people are displaced, which is at the core of any understanding of gentrification.  

6. I don't know what you mean by "community leadership." I take that its yet another one of your convenient slogans that you use instead of clearly articulating just what you mean. 

7. I don't know where you've been and what you've seen. 

8. "If the area is in proximity to other more wealthier neighborhoods the process of gentrification was more than likely already underway." 
   a. Teleological statement that assumes the inevitability of the process. A statement that ignores the uneven pace with which gentrification
       operates. Unclear, contradictory sense of time: "more than likely" yet "already." 

9. Kudos. Yes there are more jobs. The question is who secures those jobs. Perhaps there are more "opportunities." But you didn't define what you
    meant by opportunities. Again, election season is over. 

10. I don't know why you brought up James Baldwin. Just in case here is the transcript from an conversation between James Baldwin and Kenneth
      Clark. You will find exactly what I said on page one: the historic memory of urban renewal as negro      
      removal. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/mlk/sfeature/sf_video_pop_04b_tr_qt.html

11. Gentrification is a trickle. Urban Renewal is a bulldozer. If you don't fix your faulty pipes and that leak persists, the ceiling collapses. The pace
     of  destruction is undoubtedly different, yet the effect just the same. 

12. An empty lot right now. But as I mentioned in my first post: The redevelopment plan called for an additional 4-10 businesses. The question is, in total, how will these new businesses facilitate, if at all, gentrification?

14. "Truth." Bolded and quoted for emphasis. 

1. Point is the addition of a TJ's doesn't necessarily facilitate gentrification or denote the start of the process.

2. Right because the addition of a strip mall on a vacant lot is going to turn that community upside down. But liquor stores and fast food is alright.

3. Right, they're quite complementary. But again the addition of the strip mall does not necessarily facilitate gentrification. Which apparently you agree with but we'll get to that...

4. Upward mobility ISN'T hindered by reliance on the state, that is, if you're working. You're assuming everyone in the area is "poor working class", but you know and I know that not everyone in the area is working. Maybe the addition of new businesses can change that.

5. Thanks. Funny, you agree that the addition of the strip mall may or MAY NOT facilitate gentrification yet you're certain that people are going to be displaced. Which is it?

6. "Community leadership" isn't a "slogan" that I invented. Read the article, their words, not mine. In fact they used the phrase "black leadership". Hope that cleared up that "slogan".

7. But you sure acted like you did in your first post.

8. You yourself denoted the proximity of the area to wealthier neighborhoods. So yes "spill over" more than likely already is underway. If so gentrification has begun before the arrival of Trader Joe's. Again a TJ in and of itself isn't the start of the process. The encroaching elements of wealthier neighborhoods is.

9. This right here wholly depends on TJ's hiring practices. You've already pretty much counted out any chance of the locals qualifying these opportunities. So basically, your argument only holds water if they do indeed overlook the locals.

10. Brought up James Baldwin because this is not "negro removal". Nobody is being priced out of this neighborhood simply because a new strip mall opened up. It's a vacant lot so nobodies home or business is being bulldozed for corporate America. You assume that with the addition of the strip mall the surrounding properties will go up so much more in value people will no longer be able to afford their property tax. That's a LOT to assume based off one strip mall. Compare that to historical "negro removal" and you'll get why I might think James Baldwin would disagree with you here.

11. Agreed, but again this is based on your assumption that nobody from the existing populace is going to benefit, only those from wealthier backgrounds. No denying that gentrification is happening, I just don't agree that this is an accurate representation of the phenomenon.

12. IDK but isn't what YOU'RE trying to argue?

13. You skipped 13.

14. Truth is open to interpretation.

 

[Master Zik]

 
Not saying you wrong Zik, but ObeahMyal7 was asking a rhetorical question.

Thank you. 

Well the point is lost on me in addressing his statement with a rhetorical question. Cuz you literally can't call something gentrification until it actually starts. It's why I earlier made the distinction of the threat of gentrification and actual gentrification. Of course this was before I learned from Portland NTers who have confirmed gentrification was well underway in the area.

 

[scarsorscabs]

 

 
When all I had was a $20 to buy groceries with, TJ's held me down. They even accept EBT now.

why did you have to throw in the part about ebt?

Did you miss the part where the article states, "Trader Joe’s would increase displacement of low-income residents and “increase the desirability of the neighborhood,” for “non-oppressed populations,” PAALF wrote."

Unless it's unfair to assume that these low-income residents that they fear would be pushed out utilize EBT?

 

[HEATHEN]

Did you miss the part where the article states, "Trader Joe’s would increase displacement of low-income residents and “increase the desirability of the neighborhood,” for “non-oppressed populations,” PAALF wrote."

Unless it's unfair to assume that these low-income residents that they fear would be pushed out utilize EBT?

I guess it is unfair .

 

[ksteezy]

Their LOSS... TJs is amazing and much more affordable than many other large supermarkets....

 

[Brownstone]

north portland and north east portland needs money... the school systems in those areas are a joke because of funding.. middle school and high school all in one school because they couldnt afford to keep them opened.... section 8 is still available if you need help with rent.. lots of hipster neighborhoods started popping up that were in hood areas but the rent was still low... whats wrong with having a city with no "hood"

Try to rent an apartment in Brooklyn now, or several other places around the nation that have undergone gentrification. Hood areas where rent is low, do not stay low-that's the point. I am not speaking to Portland specifically, because honestly I've never been.I can say this same story applies to several urban areas in North America. It doesn't stimulate the economy for current residents, it only displaces them. 

 

[Nike Jordan]

I've never been to a Trader Joe's.

 

[rustlenomics]

Regardless of the possible positive or negative effects that opening the store would cause, its good to see a community successfully reject something that is being forced upon their community

if this was being forced on them this store would've been built..

obviously the "community leaders" rejected this because it doesnt put money in their pocket meanwhile their constituents are living in poverty.

dont act like these community  leaders are all about seeing the hood flourish with black owned businesses, they are more concerned with their own pockets and how they can use their position of power to get perks.

trader joes is too damn smart to fall for their hostage type negotiations. 

 

[wayniac211]

Shout out to the paalf for standing up. My parents lost their home in northeast (Jarrett &MLK) back in 2001 and numerous family members followed, especially in the Alberta and Woodlawn district. The rent/property prices shot up like crazy from 800 a month to 1500 and was unaffordable for a lot of good friends and fam. Good hard working people were forced to move and our cultural social gatherings were thinned due to displacement.

 

[youngtriz]

Shout out to the paalf for standing up. My parents lost their home in northeast (Jarrett &MLK) back in 2001 and numerous family members followed, especially in the Alberta and Woodlawn district. The rent/property prices shot up like crazy from 800 a month to 1500 and was unaffordable for a lot of good friends and fam. Good hard working people were forced to move and our cultural social gatherings were thinned due to displacement.

they owned a home or renting?

 

[youngtriz]

north portland and north east portland needs money... the school systems in those areas are a joke because of funding.. middle school and high school all in one school because they couldnt afford to keep them opened.... section 8 is still available if you need help with rent.. lots of hipster neighborhoods started popping up that were in hood areas but the rent was still low... whats wrong with having a city with no "hood"

Try to rent an apartment in Brooklyn now, or several other places around the nation that have undergone gentrification. Hood areas where rent is low, do not stay low-that's the point. I am not speaking to Portland specifically, because honestly I've never been.I can say this same story applies to several urban areas in North America. It doesn't stimulate the economy for current residents, it only displaces them. 

the fist thing you bring up is rent in brooklyn? everyone knows how expensive the rent in NY is ... like i said.. whats wrong with having a city with no hood?

 

[crash bunny rec]

Traders joes is a good grocery store (i don't think it's that expensive if you know what to buy). But this coulda started a trend so I understand the move

 

[scarsorscabs]

Honestly, if from reading what the few posters ITT that have actual knowledge of the area is true (and I believe it is), I understand to some extent a resistance to what could contribute to changing the landscape (in more than one sense) of the community...there is more than one way to look at it and the realized impact can only be speculated upon.  

It will create jobs but if those community leaders want a guarantee that they'll go to those in need only within that community, that's something no business can give.  What if there are few applicants from the community, what does TJs do in that situation?  You can't force someone to work at a particular business just as you can't force that business to only hire from a certain pool.

Also, it will be an additional stream of taxes...will those actually benefit the community?

There are a lot of variables involved...I guess one of the questions that I have is while opposing Trader Joes is one thing and it's not so much that I disagree with it but how much is being done as it is to improve conditions for the "oppressed population" these leaders are understandably concerned about?

 

[HEATHEN]

Honestly, if from reading what the few posters ITT that have actual knowledge of the area is true (and I believe it is), I understand to some extent a resistance to what could contribute to changing the landscape (in more than one sense) of the community...there is more than one way to look at it and the realized impact can only be speculated upon.  

It will create jobs but if those community leaders want a guarantee that they'll go to those in need only within that community, that's something no business can give.  What if there are few applicants from the community, what does TJs do in that situation?  You can't force someone to work at a particular business just as you can't force that business to only hire from a certain pool.

Also, it will be an additional stream of taxes...will those actually benefit the community?

There are a lot of variables involved...I guess one of the questions that I have is while opposing Trader Joes is one thing and it's not so much that I disagree with it but how much is being done as it is to improve conditions for the "oppressed population" these leaders are understandably concerned about?

this is it.


keeping TJ's out and preventing anything from coming into the the area that might eventually price existing residents out of the area.


this. is. it.

 

[youngtriz]

everybody in the portland area knows thats the hood area, north and north east portland and its been like that for a while... what have the paalf been doing to make it better? seems like their plan hasnt been working all these years...