College students protesting "racist" Halloween costumes vol. C'mon man

[rex ryan]

this thread has been interesting on both sides to say the least.

my take, wear what you want to wear but at the same time for every action there's a reaction.

if you wear a costume that people would be offended by and someone checks you for it then you brought it upon yourself.

 

[celticsfan9783]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by CelticsFan9783

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm



drunk drivers dont intend to kill people

just like you argue white people don't intend to offend people with black face.

horrible analogy, you got it.

"hurting someones feelings" you got it...thats what this is about...feelings.


dressing up as a crayon cannot be racially offensive, seeing how crayons arent even human, let alone have a race. now if you put a sign on the black crayon that said "i love fried chicken, dunking basketballs and being poor" then the yellow crayon said "im good at math but suck at driving" etc.  it would be racially offensive....but a crayon?

yall are trying much too hard to justify something thats flat-out wrong.

keep going tho, i wanna see how ridiculous you can get.

Did you actually think the poster who mentioned Crayons was serious? Oh man...

  

herman cain debating?

sir, he was being sarcastic as to make a criticism of my stance on the issue of blackface costumes for halloween

which i called a weak analogy, seeing how crayons arent even human, let alone belong to a particular race.

to which you had a response for, comparing my analogy of a drunk driver to a kid wearing blackface to highlight that intent is irrelevant when the impact it ultimately has is negative and harmful....

why would YOU respond to my reponse if you and i both know hes being sarcastic?

 if you thought i was dumb enough to not recognize the sarcasm, why would you introduce irrelevant information like "but you made an analogy..."?

if we both know its sarcasm why would you compare it to the non-sarcastic analogy i made?

matter of fact, if we both know its sarcasm why would you defend my criticism of it being weak at all?

oh.

i mean, a reasonable human being would consider your actions being some sort of defense of the very very poor analogy which i tore apart with one sentence......

the trolling comment was for another NTer.



serious or not the crayon analogy is poor.

the drunk driving analogy is pretty air tight, as you have done nothing to refute it.

in fact, you agreed that youre racially insensitive and don't really care if your actions offend people....wouldnt say youre racist, just pretty ignorant and lack perspective, but hey, you keep on keepin on, guy.

One is pretty much physically ending somebody's life and/or livelihood. The other is hurting somebody's feelings and/or offending them by painting your face as part of a Halloween costume. I don't think they are on the same level in regards to how harmful they are. I would be more apologetic towards someone I paralyzed than towards someone I offended, if my intent was to do no harm in both cases. Blackface shows were what, 90 years ago? Most people haven't seen them and most people can easily draw the line between what went on a century ago and dressing up as a certain character on Halloween.

If my intent is to mimic a character on Halloween without any racist undertones, it's COMPLETELY different than a minstrel show. If a costume creates somewhat of an image of minstrel show make up still, that's unfortunate, but at some point we have to move forward and put that aspect of racism in America behind us and be able to have some fun without hurting peoples' feelings. Intent does matter in my opinion.

*Please keep in mind I've maintained that darkening one's face to create the likeness of a specific character is completely separate than the doing so represent a generic person of a race*

 

[zmdawg]

Sooo....painting my face black is ok as long as I'm going as a black crayon.....but not if I wanted to be Lil Wayne?!?

But DWade going as whiteface Justin Timberlake is cool?!?

Don't go in the Halloween thread because you will be upset bigtime.....someone dressed up as Ghaddafi......madness.

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

out of curiousity ZMDAWG, may i ask what your ethnicity is?

 

[zmdawg]

I'm white and I don't need a history lesson.

 

[coldcity]

baby boy an awful movie

.....clicks red X

 

[scientific method]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

^ That costume is inarguably racist and not all comparable to dressing like Lil Wayne.

So I was racking my brain and trying to figure out how these sheltered, racist, silver-spooner, white people got the wrong idea about Compton, and perhaps about black people in general. It couldn't be that that's how we people portray it and ourselves could it? Nah couldn't be.

/www.j-loveonline.com/images/GAMEpt2proof.jpg">http://www.j-loveonline.com/images/GAMEpt2proof.jpg" alt="image">

well, boyz n da hood, NWA and even baby boy are arguably criticisms of "the ghetto" and had/have political messages.

baby boy was a pretty awful movie, and i doubt very many white people have even seen it.

regardless, what do those images have to do with white people painting their skin black?

oh.

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

Originally Posted by AirCommanderMarsFiend

Nah, they only complain when other races notice. Black people love that @+#+. It's our overwhelmingly dominant depiction, movies, music, real life. It's all you see on "our" own channel. Love to call each other the N word, get all sour faced when someone else uses it in the same context. Love to promote that whole "hood" and ghetto lifestyle, get mad when someone else notices. Love listening to "music" that calls us and women out of their name, throw a hissy fit when Don Imus says "nappy headed *@++" on a radio show that probably has single digit black listeners anyways. Even kats like Snoop Dogg, who made their living calling women worst things, had the nerve to join in. Every black comedian, even the prominent ones like Chris Rock, has entire sets of "white people" jokes, but let a white comedian make a black joke, it's like the world stops spinning.

We made martyrs of 6 kids who beat a white kid to the point of unconsciousness, all because they were likely called a racial epithet. Of course we wouldn't justify 6 white kids pounding on a black kid. The Al Sharpton bat symbol would be flashed with a quickness summoning him to the city. That entire situation was just an embarassment. Then after all that crying to get them "free," we stage a march with 10s of 1000s, which was of course culminated by a rap concert and set up a fund for the kids so they can... umm, don't know what the purpose of it but here's what happened with the money. They took gangsta rapper pics/videos with it for myspace. 2 of them even got to go to the BET awards where they walked on stage to a standing ovation. Like, these are our heroes?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_c...KU/s320/jena6myspace.jpg" alt="image">

I can see why some people have issues with being around us at times. It's like walking on egg shells, people get offended at EVERYTHING.

And I do very well at separating myself from these stereotypical depictions. For starters, I wear my pants at my waist. Furthermore, I conduct myself with a level of decorum that demands respect as an individual.

The major differences with us and communities is when they get offended, they feel some kind of way about, then move on, get over it, and make something of their lives. We're great at the former, not so much the latter.

Hell, even your boy Meth's banning practices around the subject have me raising my eyebrow at times. Check out http://niketalk.yuku.com/...ash-Mob-Robbery-Vol-MoCo href="http://niketalk.com/topic/310964/Flash-Mob-Robbery-Vol-MoCo">this thread. Kids in the video are obviously all black, correct? So how can someone get banned for pointing out the obvious? In fact, I post in this thread with trepidation because I've seen even black posters get banned for talking in threads like these, if it didn't of course revolve around just blaming the white man.

We do all this "keep it real" talk, but don't like to hear about ourselves.

  

who owns BET again? oh.

how dare black people get upset a white radio DJ called black women nappy headed @%+@ to an audience void of black listeners....how dare they

you know why black comedians can tell white jokes, but white comedians cant tell black jokes? you really wanna know why? white people rocked with their jokes for about 450 years, b. they done with the jokes now. nobody is laughing. thats why. call it black privilege.

yeah, in jena, the white students brough nooses in and did a little more than just calling them @%%+%+@. the entire outrage wasnt over that, it was over the fact the black kids recieved 10 times harsher punishments than the white kids who initiated the entire fiasco....but i wouldnt expect you to know that, either.

they're our heroes? lmao you legitamately asked that?

dude, please, how old are you and where do you live?

And I do very well at separating myself from these stereotypical depictions. For starters, I wear my pants at my waist. Furthermore, I conduct myself with a level of decorum that demands respect as an individual.

funny, cause i see white boys sag all the time, free from society's stereotypes...maybe it isnt your sagging pants but your black skin......guy




Actually dude, the noose thing and the cafeteria fight were months apart, in fact so far apart that they had coexisted on the same football team between the 2 events. Either way that's no excuse. Is that what people teach their kids? It's ok to fight, much less 6 on 1, if someone offended you. Responding to racism with violence, how much sense does that make? It seems like it would kind of reaffirm the preconceived notions the "racist," had to begin with since violence is a high one on the list.

And whether or not you like that sampling of movies was not the point. The point is, we portray ourselves that way and glorify that thug image so it's only our own fault that our social identity revolves around such negativity, both in terms of how we look at ourselves and how other races see us.

If you're in a "ghetto" neighborhood and trying to do well in school and get good grades, what's the first thing your peers say? Look at you, ol' punk, ol' marc, tryna be white, tryna read.

It's horrible IMO to call black females (all females actually) out of their name in all instances, not just when a white man does it. But apparently to black people, it's only a big deal if a white man does. When a black man calls black women H's and B's and N's, they smile and dance to it and have themselves a grand time. That whole Imus *@ backfired anyways, as does most of this backwards thinking %!* things black people try to do to get back at white people, since he got his show cancelled for only a short few weeks then signed back on the radio for even more money than he was making and with a larger star power. I thought the N word was a term of endearment. People are smart enough to understand context, you can tell when someone means it the old way, and the ignorant %!* "it's a good thing when used this way," way.

It's frankly sad how resistant black people are to the idea of self reliance and self responsibility. Like you even mention it and people immediately get indignant. There was Cosby and the backlash he recieved and even when the President said his thing about the same things, raise your kids, do good in school, stay out of jail, etc. black people got all upset and Jesse especially. So let me get this straight Jesse, so you don't want black people to do better and overcome and all of that?

Thats what it seems like to me. A large plurality of the community doesn't want to do better. That would require effort, that would require looking at yourself, that would require taking responsibility. Why do all of that when you can just chill in the cut and complain, pop out illegitimate kids who studies show are many times more likely to be involved in the penal system later in life, accept handouts, and whenever chastised about your position pull out the trustly ol' race card?

That's all these so called leaders, Jesse Jackson, AL Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, and Quanell "kill a white man" X teach black people; how to shirk any responsibility for your own life by blaming the white man, all of which just keeps you indirectly enslaved by forcing you to hold your own self back.

And yes while it is now under the Viacom umbrella since Bob Johnson dipped to do basketball and other things, it is still run by Debra Lee, who is a black woman. It was slightly better when under Bob because at least you had a greater diversity of representations and some intelligent programming like the news, but it was still generally not something that did us any service.

I should clarify it's black Americans, not black people in general. Nigerians are actually the most accomplished immigrant group. So what's the difference? How can they (and other non black immigrant groups for that matter) come here with nothing, hell less than nothing because many times they don't even speak the language, and surpass us in 1 generation? Hell, Koreans and Middle Easterners come over with express intent to take over our own missed opportunity of businesses in the hood. I see it everywhere. Black beauty supply stores, laundromats, swap meets, corner general stores, spas, all that ^$ with primarily black patronage, high percentage Korean owned. Then every few yrs they go back to their homeland, scoop some more, and continue.

I know non people on color can attend HBCUs. I'm talking about black only scholarships, black only pageants (like why does my college has a Mrs. University and a Mrs Black University), award shows, and clubs.

Good luck looking for an apology from white people, who don't even know their ancestors from that many generations ago and if they descend from slave owners. Or do you want to go dig the actual Massa's up and demand they apologize? If anything, this generation of us should all find the oldest black person we know and apologize to them that we are ruining everything they sacrificed so hard for.

You think MLK or Malcolm would be proud of us right now? 72% illegitimacy, 13% of the population but 85% of the incarcerated, 50%+ dropout rates in many major metropolitan areas, AIDS going down in every other community but up in ours. Those are crisis level stats, and only getting worst.

Nobody is going to want to do it, but it's time to stop blaming white people and get over it and take control of our destiny.

I'd hate to be as hateful as you, always mad and thinking the white man is out to get me. I hope you don't pass that on to your students.

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by CelticsFan9783

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

One is pretty much physically ending somebody's life and/or livelihood. The other is hurting somebody's feelings and/or offending them by painting your face as part of a Halloween costume. I don't think they are on the same level in regards to how harmful they are. I would be more apologetic towards someone I paralyzed than towards someone I offended, if my intent was to do no harm in both cases. Blackface shows were what, 90 years ago? Most people haven't seen them and most people can easily draw the line between what went on a century ago and dressing up as a certain character on Halloween.

If my intent is to mimic a character on Halloween without any racist undertones, it's COMPLETELY different than a minstrel show. If a costume creates somewhat of an image of minstrel show make up still, that's unfortunate, but at some point we have to move forward and put that aspect of racism in America behind us and be able to have some fun without hurting peoples' feelings. Intent does matter in my opinion.

*Please keep in mind I've maintained that darkening one's face to create the likeness of a specific character is completely separate than the doing so represent a generic person of a race*

but you agree they both have harmful outcomes, just varying degrees of harm, right?

like an analogy would have, right?

oh.

how is your costume, in which you paint your face black, COMPLETELY different from a minstrel show, where, white mean much like yourself also painted their skin black...

how is it COMPLETELY different?

the painting of the skin to mimic a black persons skintone is whats offensive....

EVERYTHING BUT PAINTING YOUR SKIN IS DIFFERENT, BUT ITS NOT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE OFFENSIVE IMAGE OF WHITE SKIN PAINTED BLACK IS PRESENT....

i really cant believe you're this ignorant.

why does YOUR fun hinge upon dressing yourself in BLACKFACE which is a NEGATIVE, RACIST image in itself?

you cant have fun without dressing in blackface? seriously?

its obvious why blackface matters and is a big deal to a black person

but why is it such a big deal to white kids?

you say its not a big deal, then why are you so stubborn to admit its wrong and stop doing it?

if its not a big deal why go back and forth for ten pages defending something so minor and stupid?

*Please keep in mind I've maintained that darkening one's face to create the likeness of a specific character is completely separate than the doing so represent a generic person of a race*



until you realize that there are PLENTY of identifying accessories you can employ for your costumes to be black people WITHOUT use of blackface, you just arent going to comprehend the argument being posed here.

you're still stuck in some reality where blackface to be a specific person is some completely different concept than actually painting your skin black to mimic a black person....

read that again, man

you think painting your skin black to mimic a black person is a less harmful/offensive image than painting your skin black to mimic a black person.

that's YOUR logic.....articulated.

If a costume creates somewhat of an image of minstrel show make up still, that's unfortunate


i mean its also unfortunate your entire race benefited off the opression and enslavement of another race of people, and the fact that certain images were purposely created and used as propaganda by white people against black people exist and still have power today is unfortunate as well.....what do you want me to do about that? im trying to inform your population of ingorance one moron at a time, but look how hard convincing you that painting your skin black is PAINTING YOUR SKIN BLACK which, by definition, IS BLACKFACE....you think imma reach every one of you ignoramouses?

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Actually dude, the noose thing and the cafeteria fight were months apart, in fact so far apart that they had coexisted on the same football team between the 2 events. Either way that's no excuse. Is that what people teach their kids? It's ok to fight, much less 6 on 1, if someone offended you. Responding to racism with violence, how much sense does that make? It seems like it would kind of reaffirm the preconceived notions the "racist," had to begin with since violence is a high one on the list.

And whether or not you like that sampling of movies was not the point. The point is, we portray ourselves that way and glorify that thug image so it's only our own fault that our social identity revolves around such negativity, both in terms of how we look at ourselves and how other races see us.

If you're in a "ghetto" neighborhood and trying to do well in school and get good grades, what's the first thing your peers say? Look at you, ol' punk, ol' marc, tryna be white, tryna read.

It's horrible IMO to call black females (all females actually) out of their name in all instances, not just when a white man does it. But apparently to black people, it's only a big deal if a white man does. When a black man calls black women H's and B's and N's, they smile and dance to it and have themselves a grand time. That whole Imus *@&# backfired anyways, as does most of this backwards thinking %!* things black people try to do to get back at white people, since he got his show cancelled for only a short few weeks then signed back on the radio for even more money than he was making and with a larger star power. I thought the N word was a term of endearment. People are smart enough to understand context, you can tell when someone means it the old way, and the ignorant %!* "it's a good thing when used this way," way.

It's frankly sad how resistant black people are to the idea of self reliance and self responsibility. Like you even mention it and people immediately get indignant. There was Cosby and the backlash he recieved and even when the President said his thing about the same things, raise your kids, do good in school, stay out of jail, etc. black people got all upset and Jesse especially. So let me get this straight Jesse, so you don't want black people to do better and overcome and all of that?

Thats what it seems like to me. A large plurality of the community doesn't want to do better. That would require effort, that would require looking at yourself, that would require taking responsibility. Why do all of that when you can just chill in the cut and complain, pop out illegitimate kids who studies show are many times more likely to be involved in the penal system later in life, accept handouts, and whenever chastised about your position pull out the trustly ol' race card?

That's all these so called leaders, Jesse Jackson, AL Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, and Quanell "kill a white man" X teach black people; how to shirk any responsibility for your own life by blaming the white man, all of which just keeps you indirectly enslaved by forcing you to hold your own self back.

And yes while it is now under the Viacom umbrella since Bob Johnson dipped to do basketball and other things, it is still run by Debra Lee, who is a black woman. It was slightly better when under Bob because at least you had a greater diversity of representations and some intelligent programming like the news, but it was still generally not something that did us any service.

I should clarify it's black Americans, not black people in general. Nigerians are actually the most accomplished immigrant group. So what's the difference? How can they (and other non black immigrant groups for that matter) come here with nothing, hell less than nothing because many times they don't even speak the language, and surpass us in 1 generation? Hell, Koreans and Middle Easterners come over with express intent to take over our own missed opportunity of businesses in the hood. I see it everywhere. Black beauty supply stores, laundromats, swap meets, corner general stores, spas, all that &#^$ with primarily black patronage, high percentage Korean owned. Then every few yrs they go back to their homeland, scoop some more, and continue.

I know non people on color can attend HBCUs. I'm talking about black only scholarships, black only pageants (like why does my college has a Mrs. University and a Mrs Black University), award shows, and clubs.

Good luck looking for an apology from white people, who don't even know their ancestors from that many generations ago and if they descend from slave owners. Or do you want to go dig the actual Massa's up and demand they apologize? If anything, this generation of us should all find the oldest black person we know and apologize to them that we are ruining everything they sacrificed so hard for.

You think MLK or Malcolm would be proud of us right now? 72% illegitimacy, 13% of the population but 85% of the incarcerated, 50%+ dropout rates in many major metropolitan areas, AIDS going down in every other community but up in ours. Those are crisis level stats, and only getting worst.

Nobody is going to want to do it, but it's time to stop blaming white people and get over it and take control of our destiny.

I'd hate to be as hateful as you, always mad and thinking the white man is out to get me. I hope you don't pass that on to your students.

theyre HS kids.....i will apologize on behalf of every 15 and 16 year old who got into a stupid fight over something much more petty than repeated racial incidents.

the white people in jena were just bent out of shape a white boy got tagged for speaking out of line

i guess if more white boys in blackface for halloween just got tagged for their efforts on sight this would go away...of course it would feed into the stereotype of the violent black males, etc. etc. so on and so forth.....but its not like wearing the blackface feeds into the white stereotype that they're entitled and racist....no, never that....

we portray ourselves that way and glorify that thug image so it's only our own fault that our social identity revolves around such negativity, both in terms of how we look at ourselves and how other races see us. 
you said we like everything you posted wasnt pre-approved by a white man's hand

for the record, i think tyler perry films are more harmful than any blackface ever was.....thank god white people dont watch it.

   If you're in a "ghetto" neighborhood and trying to do well in school and get good grades, what's the first thing your peers say? Look at you, ol' punk, ol' marc, tryna be white, tryna read.
maybe if you live in a tv one special "south central" movie premier....

im from "the ghetto" i got a full ride to tOSU....nobody ever spoke down on me for doing so. people who you all would probably call animals told me they were proud of me. sorry,guy, those episodes of "in da house" you watched on youtube arent reality, b.

 I thought the N word was a term of endearment. People are smart enough to understand context, you can tell when someone means it the old way, and the ignorant %!* "it's a good thing when used this way," way.
this whole who can and cant say !##$# debate is stale. white people ruined their chance to use the word !##$# period...in any context....you know, forced slavery then oppressive legislation up until my generation will kinda do that for you....

yeah, its unfairly off limits....so? we were unfairly enslaved......lets call it even (in that respect and that respect alone)

Jesse especially. So let me get this straight Jesse, so you don't want black people to do better and overcome and all of that?
ill be the first person to criticize our "black leaders" who are really leaders of PREVIOUS black generations.

jesse and sharpton dont speak for me. In fact, that is one criticism of black culture as a whole im willing to accept; we dont have any leadership. our leadership is weak. i'll be the first to admit that. But why do we even need "black leadership"? is there "white leadership"? is there "asian leadership"? no. maybe thats moreso due to the majority of american history being oppressive to black people as opposed to something inherant in black people to fail.....maybe. its a guess.

Why do all of that when you can just chill in the cut and complain, pop out illegitimate kids who studies show are many times more likely to be involved in the penal system later in life, accept handouts, and whenever chastised about your position pull out the trustly ol' race card?



no stereotypes or generalizations there!

working at walmart full time but still being able to recieve foodstamps is hardly "chilling in the cut"

but that's called perspective, i wont even consider trying to offer you that.

That's all these so called leaders, Jesse Jackson, AL Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, and Quanell "kill a white man" X teach black people; how to shirk any responsibility for your own life by blaming the white man, all of which just keeps you indirectly enslaved by forcing you to hold your own self back.
while im the first to admit they're not strong leaders, jackson farrakhan nor sharpton "blame the white man" nor "shirk any responsibility"

its painfully obvious youve never paid attention to any of them speak.

farrakhan is very inflammatory and boarderline racist, but to say he doesnt speak of self-responsibility is ridiculous and downright ignorant...laughably so...

And yes while it is now under the Viacom umbrella since Bob Johnson dipped to do basketball and other things, it is still run by Debra Lee, who is a black woman. It was slightly better when under Bob because at least you had a greater diversity of representations and some intelligent programming like the news, but it was still generally not something that did us any service.
and who does the lovely debra lee answer to?

oh.

next?

I should clarify it's black Americans, not black people in general. Nigerians are actually the most accomplished immigrant group. So what's the difference? How can they (and other non black immigrant groups for that matter) come here with nothing, hell less than nothing because many times they don't even speak the language, and surpass us in 1 generation? Hell, Koreans and Middle Easterners come over with express intent to take over our own missed opportunity of businesses in the hood. I see it everywhere. Black beauty supply stores, laundromats, swap meets, corner general stores, spas, all that &#^$ with primarily black patronage, high percentage Korean owned. Then every few yrs they go back to their homeland, scoop some more, and continue.
youre making a very strong argument about just how ******ed slavery and the legislative oppression was to the black community.

see, the populations you're sucking off, came here AFTER reforming many many oppressive laws.

while the 5th generation of decendants of slaves are still being affected (through lineage) by the very things that INTENDED THIS OUTCOME

nigerians and koreans werent here to have their families destoryed systematically and on purpose.

thanks for making such a convincing argument for the huge amount of uncomparable damage slavery and oppression has done to AFRICAN AMERICANS (i.e. the decendants of slaves) by contrasting it against the progress of other minority populations who didnt endure the same slavery nor oppression.

thanks

I know non people on color can attend HBCUs. I'm talking about black only scholarships, black only pageants (like why does my college has a Mrs. University and a Mrs Black University), award shows, and clubs.
and why do you think they have black only scholarships? black only pageants? why do you think they have that? to exclude white people?

its the opposite. i mean, im typing common sense things to you at this point. these are things i learned at the age of 8.

they have a miss black university at your university PROBABLY because the regular ole miss university has been white since the inception of the title. furthermore, im sure that when miss black university was invented, there were actual laws in effect that banned a black girl from even entering the competition, let alone winning.

most "black only" organizations came about as the ONLY alternative to clubs/scholarships/awards that may not have had a "white" moniker on, but for all intents and purposes were "white only" situations.

as far as minority scholarships, most schools have around 10 percent black enrollment. seeing how there are more than 10 percent of black people in any given population of any random US state, the school makes efforts to increase black enrollment. One way they can try to pull their black enrollment up to more accurately reflect the society we live in, things like minority scholarships are invented.


Jamal, a black kid at a terrible inner-city school, scores in the top 5 percent of his failing school and gets a scholarship to university

whereas Tim, the white senior who goes to a suburban high school, scores in the top 10% of his amazing, world-renown school and doesnt get a full ride...

thats unfair.

is it?

Jamal had inferrior bulding, supplies, books, teachers, a dangerous neighborhood, a culture that was not supportive of education....and still managed to graduate, in a school that graduates maybe 20 percent of students.....(half of my senior class didnt graduate) The chances of him failing were very very very strong.

whereas tim had state of the art building, the most up to date technology and world-renown teachers.....in a school that graduates 98 percent of their students.....he didnt really overcome anything....hes not even the best in his class. everyone is going to graduate. what makes him different from the top 20 percent of his class? or the top 30 percent? its a very homogenous population.

now when it comes to admitting these students into the same state university...

Jamal is one of about 3500 black applicants that are about the same as Jamal.....same background, grades, race, etc.

they have 3000 slots allocated for black students...so only about 500 will be turned away.

he has a high chance of getting in, right?

Tim, on the other hand, is one of about 25000 white applicants that are about the same as Tim.

they have 20000 spots for white students. 5000 will be turned away.

way more competition for tim.

is that the schools design by using affirmative action OR

is this is intended result of the systematic oppression that is undeniable? i mean, its a fact that african americans have been systematically oppressed for hundreds upon hundreds of years, multiple different ways, consistantly since the slave trade first benefitted america....there is absolutely no denying that.

is it jamals fault that he has a better chance ending up in prison than in college? is it his fault that since a majority of his black peers arent going to college there is a better chance he can?

is it tims fault that hes one of 25000? no. but theres something to say about 3500 black applicants vs 25000 white ones, right?

Good luck looking for an apology from white people, who don't even know their ancestors from that many generations ago and if they descend from slave owners. Or do you want to go dig the actual Massa's up and demand they apologize? If anything, this generation of us should all find the oldest black person we know and apologize to them that we are ruining everything they sacrificed so hard for.

 apology?

right.

You think MLK or Malcolm would be proud of us right now? 72% illegitimacy, 13% of the population but 85% of the incarcerated, 50%+ dropout rates in many major metropolitan areas, AIDS going down in every other community but up in ours. Those are crisis level stats, and only getting worst.


theyd be pretty embarassed you cant identify the difference between worst and worse.

but again, thank you for showing the INTENDED results of systematic oppression. its very telling just how stark the contrast between decendants of slaves are vs. everyone else in this country...even populations like nigerians who are, for all intents and purposes, the same race as us. so apparently it isnt a attribute of race, rather, an attribute of the history of this great country of ours.

im so glad we agree so strongly on that point. im surprised.

Nobody is going to want to do it, but it's time to stop blaming white people and get over it and take control of our destiny.

I'd hate to be as hateful as you, always mad and thinking the white man is out to get me. I hope you don't pass that on to your students.


honestly, im feeling alot more hate from your rhetoric than mine. i dont hate anybody. i hate ignorance, tho. and white people who refuse to give blackface up because its offensive are ignorant.

that has nothing to do with high incarceration rates or louis farrakhan, sir.



once again, how old are you and where are you from?

Originally Posted by zmdawg

Sooo....painting my face black is ok as long as I'm going as a black crayon.....but not if I wanted to be Lil Wayne?!?

But DWade going as whiteface Justin Timberlake is cool?!?

Don't go in the Halloween thread because you will be upset bigtime.....someone dressed up as Ghaddafi......madness.

yes, because a black crayon isnt a human. you arent mocking the crayons skin color nor are you acting in a negative stereotypical fashion in which the crayon youre mocking would be offended

see, crayons arent humans....third time ive typed this.

dwade going in whiteface doesnt have racist undertones and a history of the image being used to oppress a race of people through propaganda.....so, nah, its not cool, but its certainly not racist nor a harmful image.

i wont be upset at all. like i said, this isnt anything new to me. i went to The Ohio State University.....where over the summer quarter, welcome signs for freshman black engineering students were changed to say "no @!!**@!"......where hundreds of whtie kids dress in blackface for fun all the time....nothing new. which is why im not phased by anything said in this argument right now. its nothing new. yall were in elementary school when i was checking whiteboys in blackface...so it is what it is.

Originally Posted by zmdawg

I'm white and I don't need a history lesson.

right.

but you dont see the difference between a crayon and lil wayne...theyre both black objects, right?

 

[celticsfan9783]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by CelticsFan9783

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

One is pretty much physically ending somebody's life and/or livelihood. The other is hurting somebody's feelings and/or offending them by painting your face as part of a Halloween costume. I don't think they are on the same level in regards to how harmful they are. I would be more apologetic towards someone I paralyzed than towards someone I offended, if my intent was to do no harm in both cases. Blackface shows were what, 90 years ago? Most people haven't seen them and most people can easily draw the line between what went on a century ago and dressing up as a certain character on Halloween.

If my intent is to mimic a character on Halloween without any racist undertones, it's COMPLETELY different than a minstrel show. If a costume creates somewhat of an image of minstrel show make up still, that's unfortunate, but at some point we have to move forward and put that aspect of racism in America behind us and be able to have some fun without hurting peoples' feelings. Intent does matter in my opinion.

*Please keep in mind I've maintained that darkening one's face to create the likeness of a specific character is completely separate than the doing so represent a generic person of a race*

but you agree they both have harmful outcomes, just varying degrees of harm, right?

like an analogy would have, right?

oh.

how is your costume, in which you paint your face black, COMPLETELY different from a minstrel show, where, white mean much like yourself also painted their skin black...

how is it COMPLETELY different?

the painting of the skin to mimic a black persons skintone is whats offensive....

EVERYTHING BUT PAINTING YOUR SKIN IS DIFFERENT, BUT ITS NOT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE OFFENSIVE IMAGE OF WHITE SKIN PAINTED BLACK IS PRESENT....

i really cant believe you're this ignorant.

why does YOUR fun hinge upon dressing yourself in BLACKFACE which is a NEGATIVE, RACIST image in itself?

you cant have fun without dressing in blackface? seriously?

its obvious why blackface matters and is a big deal to a black person

but why is it such a big deal to white kids?

you say its not a big deal, then why are you so stubborn to admit its wrong and stop doing it?

if its not a big deal why go back and forth for ten pages defending something so minor and stupid?

*Please keep in mind I've maintained that darkening one's face to create the likeness of a specific character is completely separate than the doing so represent a generic person of a race*

until you realize that there are PLENTY of identifying accessories you can employ for your costumes to be black people WITHOUT use of blackface, you just arent going to comprehend the argument being posed here.

you're still stuck in some reality where blackface to be a specific person is some completely different concept than actually painting your skin black to mimic a black person....

read that again, man

you think painting your skin black to mimic a black person is a less harmful/offensive image than painting your skin black to mimic a black person.

that's YOUR logic.....articulated.

If a costume creates somewhat of an image of minstrel show make up still, that's unfortunate


i mean its also unfortunate your entire race benefited off the opression and enslavement of another race of people, and the fact that certain images were purposely created and used as propaganda by white people against black people exist and still have power today is unfortunate as well.....what do you want me to do about that? im trying to inform your population of ingorance one moron at a time, but look how hard convincing you that painting your skin black is PAINTING YOUR SKIN BLACK which, by definition, IS BLACKFACE....you think imma reach every one of you ignoramouses?


One is for the purpose on mimicking a physical trait for the sake of creating a more believable specific character. Blackface in the early 20th century was for the purpose of mimicking physical characteristics, an entire culture, and an oppressed race IN A DEAMEANING MANNER.

Not everyone is capable of determining what a costume is without that extra tidbit of information such as skin tone, sorry to break it to you. It's like giving an extra hint. Like saying, "oh I'm also dark skinned." It's not racist at all actually. It's just a factual statement about the character you are trying to represent.

*I don't think you're "ignorant" or a "moron" for disagreeing with me in this discussion. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can't expect everyone to see eye to eye with you. You lose a lot of credibility when you are unable to debate with someone without ad hominem.

 

[everysingletime]

im trying to inform your population of ingorance one moron at a time, but look how hard convincing you that painting your skin black is PAINTING YOUR SKIN BLACK which, by definition, IS BLACKFACE....


This is the heart of your argument every time you argue.  Saying it over and over again doesn't make it any less stupid. 

 

[zmdawg]

---

im trying to inform your population of ingorance one moron at a time, but look how hard convincing you that painting your skin black is PAINTING YOUR SKIN BLACK which, by definition, IS BLACKFACE....



It's not that I don't know the difference between a crayon and a person.....You are upset about the use of black face paint no matter how it's used. These people aren't mocking a community of people when doing this. They aren't doing it to be a racist. These are your opinions and I can respect that but we don't agree. A black person using white face paint = white person using black face paint. They are all trying to accurately portray a person/character for a costume party. I also don't have issues with chicks dressing up as Pocahontas.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spo...es-in-blackface-is-a-disgrace-to-the-nhl.html

Plaschke is also trying to make it more than it is. I wasn't surprised to see how many people disagreed with his article.