darthska
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Super clean, methinks:
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**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by licensed to ball,
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Jada went full Giannis
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Jada was on another planet tonight.
MVP
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Y'all worried about defense when we going to average 125 a game.
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We got a Nunn, Monk, and a King we good fellas 
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Reminds me of that year they had black brown and blueWe got a Nunn, Monk, and a King we good fellas
Hijo Del Promo
formerly xxhu5sl1npnoyxx
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Maaaan that woud be dope of he did that though, just him trying, it would be so Kingly.
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Kuzma got a ring out of it tho
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hate this mother ****er
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this the same guy who wouldnt play marc, drummond, trezz, and kieff in the same game. good luck with that
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Starting to think Schroder could be spiteful and just sign for less elsewhere (Warriors? Knicks?) so the Lakers don't get anything for him.
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Through the first 24 hours or so of NBA free agency, the Los Angeles Lakers were the league’s most active team.
In a flurry of transactions on Monday and Tuesday, the Lakers re-signed restricted free agent Talen Horton-Tucker to a three-year, $32 million contract, declined to match Alex Caruso’s four-year, $37 million contract with the Chicago Bulls and plugged the gaps in their rotation by agreeing to one-year deals with Kendrick Nunn ($5.9 million taxpayer midlevel exception), Trevor Ariza, Wayne Ellington, Dwight Howard, Kent Bazemore, Carmelo Anthony and Malik Monk.
The moves — along with Marc Gasol announcing he’s returning for next season and the team waiving Alfonzo McKinnie, according to The Athletic’s Shams Charania — give the Lakers 12 players under contract, with as many as three spots to fill. Five of the seven players they signed this offseason are 32 years old or older, making the league’s oldest roster even older.
The team could use another big wing and another big (either a center or a power forward/center hybrid). Ellington is the tentative starting shooting guard, but Bazemore and Horton-Tucker could make a case to start when considering their superior defense.
Horton-Tucker, in particular, is primed for a much bigger role next season. If he can bump his 3-point shooting closer to league average, he may be the favorite for the starting gig or, at a minimum, a sixth-man role.
In reviewing the changes the Lakers made to their roster, it’s clear Lakers vice president of basketball operations and general manager Rob Pelinka and his staff were prioritizing 3-point shooting and overall offensive improvement.
Five of the additions — Ellington, Bazemore, Anthony, Monk and Nunn — shot 38 percent or better on 3s last season. Los Angeles also added some much-needed size, length and defense to the frontcourt with Howard, Ariza and Bazemore, ensuring its defense remains elite.
Overall, though, the additions are more offensive-focused and somewhat defensively challenged (Russell Westbrook, Nunn, Ellington, Anthony and Monk). There are fewer two-way options on this roster, especially if Wesley Matthews isn’t re-signed.
This is not the Lakers teams from 2019-20 or 2020-21 — there are going to be several defensive liabilities in the rotation. The Lakers will have a much different makeup next season, for better or worse.
Ariza, the starting small forward on the 2008-09 Lakers championship team, is still a respectable 3-and-D wing who gives L.A. some perimeter size. The 36-year-old trends more toward defense, as his career 3-point shooting percentage is slightly below league average. He’s also more of a power forward, as he isn’t as athletic as he used to be. He can defend either forward spot, allowing LeBron James to take a lesser assignment and to excel as a help defender.
Ellington, 33, is one of the best marksmen in the league. He shot 42.2 percent on 3s on 6.0 attempts per game last season. He’s immediately the best 3-pointer shooter in the James-Anthony Davis era. Ellington’s ideal role is probably off the bench, but the Lakers need shooting in the starting group, and he’s much more reliable from deep than Bazemore or Horton-Tucker.
The Lakers should have retained Howard last season, as he was clearly a better fit than Montrezl Harrell and would’ve complemented Marc Gasol well with his vastly different skill set. Howard, 36, remains a solid rim protector and effective rebounder. He’s a burden to deal with in the paint. At this point in his career, he’s a minus offensively, and he fouls too much. He also struggled in the postseason with the Sixers, but the Lakers have the flexibility to not play him because of Davis’ ability to play center.
Bazemore, 32, turned down more years and money from the Warriors to play a larger role and compete for a title in Los Angeles. He has similar strengths to Ariza (3-and-D), but he’s smaller and quicker, which allows him to defend one through three. He might be the best non-Davis guard defender on the team (a locked-in James is at a different level, but Bazemore might be more disruptive night to night).
He also shot 40.8 percent on 3s last season, most likely an outlier given his career shooting percentages but a positive harbinger of his career improvement, nonetheless. Bazemore and Ariza balance each other nicely and bring some much-needed size and length to Los Angeles’ perimeter crop.
Nunn, 26, also rejected more years and money to compete for a title with the Lakers. He is technically their big free-agent signing, as he’s going to earn the most money of the newcomers. He steps into the backup point guard role, although he technically can play shooting guard next to James and/or Westbrook.
He’s small, but he finishes well at the rim, has a solid midrange jumper and improved his 3-point percentage last season. He’s a worthy MLE signing. John Hollinger’s BORD$ tool pegged Nunn’s value at $11,467,484 — more than Dennis Schröder’s ($11,360,013).
Anthony is a catch-and-shoot threat at this stage, no longer the former All-Star scorer and midrange assassin he was in his Hall of Fame prime. It’s been a long process, but the 37-year-old has seemingly accepted his physical limitations as his career winds down and will likely play a small role in the rotation considering the crowded frontcourt.
He isn’t much of a rebounder, passer or defender, so the Lakers should only turn to Anthony in instances in which they need his shooting and/or scoring. His shooting allows the Lakers to play Davis at the five and surround him with frontcourt shooting. He’s also best friends with James, which helps from a chemistry and role standpoint.
Monk is a 23-year-old combo guard coming off a career-best shooting season from deep. He’s the instant offense guy the backcourt was missing off the bench. There’s a reason he was available: He disappointed during his stint in Charlotte, leading to the franchise giving up on him despite him being so young and a former lottery pick. But with more structure and better teammates in Los Angeles, Monk is set up to thrive.
The only loss for the Lakers in the first 24 hours of free agency was Caruso signing with the Bulls. Letting Caruso walk is head-scratching at best and a disaster at worst. He was the Lakers’ best perimeter defender and one of the best guard defenders in the league. He’s well worth the non-taxpayer midlevel exception.
Hollinger’s BORD$ tool estimated Caruso’s worth at $12,154,644 for next season. At just 27 years old — practically a baby on this roster — it wasn’t as if Caruso was going to age out of that estimation. He still has several prime years ahead of him as a quality 3-and-D guard. Patrick Beverley, a similar player archetype, is making over $13 million per season with the Clippers. Caruso at under $9.5 million is a steal for Chicago.
Even if the Lakers were wary of committing to him for four years, they could’ve kept Caruso as an asset and then flipped him sometime during the 2021-22 regular season. It’s apparent that the Lakers either undervalued Caruso — he reportedly had several teams interested in him in the non-taxpayer midlevel exception range — or were worried about the size of their luxury-tax bill. According to The Athletic’s Sam Amick, Caruso came back to the Lakers with the Bulls’ offer, and they declined to counter.
Trading for Westbrook and taking on an additional $9 million (or so) was supposed to be an indicator the Lakers were going all-in on this next season, regardless of the cost. That entailed re-signing their own free agents at prices above the veteran’s minimum. The Lakers suddenly becoming cost-conscious is a bit puzzling. They already had lost multiple rotation players in the Westbrook deal, making retaining a valuable rotation piece like Caruso even more important.
There is no replacing Caruso. Nunn and Monk are significantly worse defenders. Bazemore and Ariza are more likely to defend wings and forwards. Caruso would’ve been an ideal late-game complement to the James-Davis-Westbrook trio with his improved 3-point shooting (40.1 percent last season) and ability to handle the harder backcourt defensive assignment. Imagine Caruso on this roster instead of Monk — that team is arguably the best in the league. As it stands, the Lakers are close. They’re probably the best team in the West. But they could’ve been better had they kept Caruso and just paid the deserved penalty.
Moving forward, the Lakers still have decisions to make regarding their three remaining free agents: Schröder, Matthews and Jared Dudley.
Schröder no longer has a role on the roster with the Lakers acquiring Westbrook, Nunn and Monk. The Lakers could sign-and-trade him to another team to recoup an asset, but it’s unclear what Schröder’s market is — only Oklahoma City or San Antonio can currently sign him to the type of contract he was looking for, and there is no indication either is willing to.
Matthews makes less sense on this roster after the Bazemore, Ellington, Nunn and Monk signings, but the Lakers could use more perimeter defense, and Matthews has a clearer role — potentially even as the starting shooting guard — if the Lakers shift one of their wings more to a forward role (including Matthews). Dudley, who was part of the Lakers’ recruitment of Westbrook, likely will be back if he chooses as the team’s 15th man.
As the roster crystallizes, one concern is its collective age. At the same time, each player’s value is justifiable on a minimum contract. They each have very clear strengths. Ariza can defend, Ellington and Anthony can shoot, Bazemore can do a bit of everything and Howard can protect the paint and rebound. Nunn and Monk somewhat balance out the roster’s age too.
Really, the biggest issue with the new Lakers roster is their dramatic decline in backcourt defense. With Caruso and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope in new situations and Schröder almost certainly gone, they’ve lost their three highest minute-getters at the guard positions, all of whom were plus-defenders (and they might lose a fourth in Matthews).
Replacing those players with Westbrook, Ellington, Bazemore, Nunn and Monk is a dramatic drop-off defensively. Bazemore saves the group from being a train wreck, but Ellington is a definite minus, and Westbrook’s interest changes possession to possession (and he gambles and freelances way too much). There weren’t perimeter defenders as poor as Ellington, Nunn or Monk in last season’s rotation.
Next season’s group should be more balanced. They’re better offensively, but the defense is undoubtedly going to take a hit from its perch atop the league’s rankings. Also, while the Lakers loaded up on role-player shooters, they also added a high-minute floor-clogger in Westbrook, which negates some of their shooters’ value.
All told, the Lakers should be considered the early favorites in the West. They still have the conference’s best tandem — and arguably the best tandem in the league, period. This roster is flawed, and the Westbrook fit is less than ideal, but their star power might be great enough to withstand any limitations.
The Clippers and Nuggets are going to be without Kawhi Leonard and Jamal Murray, respectively, for all or most of next season. The Suns and Warriors are formidable and possibly the Lakers’ two biggest conference threats, though the Lakers have a significant size advantage over both, as the Play-In Tournament and playoffs showed when Davis was healthy.
The Jazz can’t be trusted after back-to-back embarrassing postseason flameouts. The Mavericks haven’t improved enough. The Trail Blazers are a losing streak away from self-combusting. The Grizzlies and Pelicans are still a couple of players away from being a true conference threat.
Thus, the West appears wide open for the Lakers’ taking.
The Lakers extracted incredible value in free agency with the allure of Los Angeles, the franchise’s golden history and the opportunity to compete for a championship next season with James, Davis and Westbrook. The only remaining items on the organization’s offseason to-do list are filling the final two or three spots on the roster and determining if they’re going to sign-and-trade Caruso and/or Schröder.
Aside from the Caruso blunder — one that could ultimately prove costlier than deciding to pay a lower luxury-tax bill — the first 24 hours were about as successful as reasonably possible given their limited resources to address their weaknesses and improve the roster.
Time will tell if next season’s Lakers team is better than last season’s squad or the 2020 title group, but it’s certainly different.
In a flurry of transactions on Monday and Tuesday, the Lakers re-signed restricted free agent Talen Horton-Tucker to a three-year, $32 million contract, declined to match Alex Caruso’s four-year, $37 million contract with the Chicago Bulls and plugged the gaps in their rotation by agreeing to one-year deals with Kendrick Nunn ($5.9 million taxpayer midlevel exception), Trevor Ariza, Wayne Ellington, Dwight Howard, Kent Bazemore, Carmelo Anthony and Malik Monk.
The moves — along with Marc Gasol announcing he’s returning for next season and the team waiving Alfonzo McKinnie, according to The Athletic’s Shams Charania — give the Lakers 12 players under contract, with as many as three spots to fill. Five of the seven players they signed this offseason are 32 years old or older, making the league’s oldest roster even older.
The team could use another big wing and another big (either a center or a power forward/center hybrid). Ellington is the tentative starting shooting guard, but Bazemore and Horton-Tucker could make a case to start when considering their superior defense.
Horton-Tucker, in particular, is primed for a much bigger role next season. If he can bump his 3-point shooting closer to league average, he may be the favorite for the starting gig or, at a minimum, a sixth-man role.
In reviewing the changes the Lakers made to their roster, it’s clear Lakers vice president of basketball operations and general manager Rob Pelinka and his staff were prioritizing 3-point shooting and overall offensive improvement.
Five of the additions — Ellington, Bazemore, Anthony, Monk and Nunn — shot 38 percent or better on 3s last season. Los Angeles also added some much-needed size, length and defense to the frontcourt with Howard, Ariza and Bazemore, ensuring its defense remains elite.
Overall, though, the additions are more offensive-focused and somewhat defensively challenged (Russell Westbrook, Nunn, Ellington, Anthony and Monk). There are fewer two-way options on this roster, especially if Wesley Matthews isn’t re-signed.
This is not the Lakers teams from 2019-20 or 2020-21 — there are going to be several defensive liabilities in the rotation. The Lakers will have a much different makeup next season, for better or worse.
Ariza, the starting small forward on the 2008-09 Lakers championship team, is still a respectable 3-and-D wing who gives L.A. some perimeter size. The 36-year-old trends more toward defense, as his career 3-point shooting percentage is slightly below league average. He’s also more of a power forward, as he isn’t as athletic as he used to be. He can defend either forward spot, allowing LeBron James to take a lesser assignment and to excel as a help defender.
Ellington, 33, is one of the best marksmen in the league. He shot 42.2 percent on 3s on 6.0 attempts per game last season. He’s immediately the best 3-pointer shooter in the James-Anthony Davis era. Ellington’s ideal role is probably off the bench, but the Lakers need shooting in the starting group, and he’s much more reliable from deep than Bazemore or Horton-Tucker.
The Lakers should have retained Howard last season, as he was clearly a better fit than Montrezl Harrell and would’ve complemented Marc Gasol well with his vastly different skill set. Howard, 36, remains a solid rim protector and effective rebounder. He’s a burden to deal with in the paint. At this point in his career, he’s a minus offensively, and he fouls too much. He also struggled in the postseason with the Sixers, but the Lakers have the flexibility to not play him because of Davis’ ability to play center.
Bazemore, 32, turned down more years and money from the Warriors to play a larger role and compete for a title in Los Angeles. He has similar strengths to Ariza (3-and-D), but he’s smaller and quicker, which allows him to defend one through three. He might be the best non-Davis guard defender on the team (a locked-in James is at a different level, but Bazemore might be more disruptive night to night).
He also shot 40.8 percent on 3s last season, most likely an outlier given his career shooting percentages but a positive harbinger of his career improvement, nonetheless. Bazemore and Ariza balance each other nicely and bring some much-needed size and length to Los Angeles’ perimeter crop.
Nunn, 26, also rejected more years and money to compete for a title with the Lakers. He is technically their big free-agent signing, as he’s going to earn the most money of the newcomers. He steps into the backup point guard role, although he technically can play shooting guard next to James and/or Westbrook.
He’s small, but he finishes well at the rim, has a solid midrange jumper and improved his 3-point percentage last season. He’s a worthy MLE signing. John Hollinger’s BORD$ tool pegged Nunn’s value at $11,467,484 — more than Dennis Schröder’s ($11,360,013).
Anthony is a catch-and-shoot threat at this stage, no longer the former All-Star scorer and midrange assassin he was in his Hall of Fame prime. It’s been a long process, but the 37-year-old has seemingly accepted his physical limitations as his career winds down and will likely play a small role in the rotation considering the crowded frontcourt.
He isn’t much of a rebounder, passer or defender, so the Lakers should only turn to Anthony in instances in which they need his shooting and/or scoring. His shooting allows the Lakers to play Davis at the five and surround him with frontcourt shooting. He’s also best friends with James, which helps from a chemistry and role standpoint.
Monk is a 23-year-old combo guard coming off a career-best shooting season from deep. He’s the instant offense guy the backcourt was missing off the bench. There’s a reason he was available: He disappointed during his stint in Charlotte, leading to the franchise giving up on him despite him being so young and a former lottery pick. But with more structure and better teammates in Los Angeles, Monk is set up to thrive.
The only loss for the Lakers in the first 24 hours of free agency was Caruso signing with the Bulls. Letting Caruso walk is head-scratching at best and a disaster at worst. He was the Lakers’ best perimeter defender and one of the best guard defenders in the league. He’s well worth the non-taxpayer midlevel exception.
Hollinger’s BORD$ tool estimated Caruso’s worth at $12,154,644 for next season. At just 27 years old — practically a baby on this roster — it wasn’t as if Caruso was going to age out of that estimation. He still has several prime years ahead of him as a quality 3-and-D guard. Patrick Beverley, a similar player archetype, is making over $13 million per season with the Clippers. Caruso at under $9.5 million is a steal for Chicago.
Even if the Lakers were wary of committing to him for four years, they could’ve kept Caruso as an asset and then flipped him sometime during the 2021-22 regular season. It’s apparent that the Lakers either undervalued Caruso — he reportedly had several teams interested in him in the non-taxpayer midlevel exception range — or were worried about the size of their luxury-tax bill. According to The Athletic’s Sam Amick, Caruso came back to the Lakers with the Bulls’ offer, and they declined to counter.
Trading for Westbrook and taking on an additional $9 million (or so) was supposed to be an indicator the Lakers were going all-in on this next season, regardless of the cost. That entailed re-signing their own free agents at prices above the veteran’s minimum. The Lakers suddenly becoming cost-conscious is a bit puzzling. They already had lost multiple rotation players in the Westbrook deal, making retaining a valuable rotation piece like Caruso even more important.
There is no replacing Caruso. Nunn and Monk are significantly worse defenders. Bazemore and Ariza are more likely to defend wings and forwards. Caruso would’ve been an ideal late-game complement to the James-Davis-Westbrook trio with his improved 3-point shooting (40.1 percent last season) and ability to handle the harder backcourt defensive assignment. Imagine Caruso on this roster instead of Monk — that team is arguably the best in the league. As it stands, the Lakers are close. They’re probably the best team in the West. But they could’ve been better had they kept Caruso and just paid the deserved penalty.
Moving forward, the Lakers still have decisions to make regarding their three remaining free agents: Schröder, Matthews and Jared Dudley.
Schröder no longer has a role on the roster with the Lakers acquiring Westbrook, Nunn and Monk. The Lakers could sign-and-trade him to another team to recoup an asset, but it’s unclear what Schröder’s market is — only Oklahoma City or San Antonio can currently sign him to the type of contract he was looking for, and there is no indication either is willing to.
Matthews makes less sense on this roster after the Bazemore, Ellington, Nunn and Monk signings, but the Lakers could use more perimeter defense, and Matthews has a clearer role — potentially even as the starting shooting guard — if the Lakers shift one of their wings more to a forward role (including Matthews). Dudley, who was part of the Lakers’ recruitment of Westbrook, likely will be back if he chooses as the team’s 15th man.
As the roster crystallizes, one concern is its collective age. At the same time, each player’s value is justifiable on a minimum contract. They each have very clear strengths. Ariza can defend, Ellington and Anthony can shoot, Bazemore can do a bit of everything and Howard can protect the paint and rebound. Nunn and Monk somewhat balance out the roster’s age too.
Really, the biggest issue with the new Lakers roster is their dramatic decline in backcourt defense. With Caruso and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope in new situations and Schröder almost certainly gone, they’ve lost their three highest minute-getters at the guard positions, all of whom were plus-defenders (and they might lose a fourth in Matthews).
Replacing those players with Westbrook, Ellington, Bazemore, Nunn and Monk is a dramatic drop-off defensively. Bazemore saves the group from being a train wreck, but Ellington is a definite minus, and Westbrook’s interest changes possession to possession (and he gambles and freelances way too much). There weren’t perimeter defenders as poor as Ellington, Nunn or Monk in last season’s rotation.
Next season’s group should be more balanced. They’re better offensively, but the defense is undoubtedly going to take a hit from its perch atop the league’s rankings. Also, while the Lakers loaded up on role-player shooters, they also added a high-minute floor-clogger in Westbrook, which negates some of their shooters’ value.
All told, the Lakers should be considered the early favorites in the West. They still have the conference’s best tandem — and arguably the best tandem in the league, period. This roster is flawed, and the Westbrook fit is less than ideal, but their star power might be great enough to withstand any limitations.
The Clippers and Nuggets are going to be without Kawhi Leonard and Jamal Murray, respectively, for all or most of next season. The Suns and Warriors are formidable and possibly the Lakers’ two biggest conference threats, though the Lakers have a significant size advantage over both, as the Play-In Tournament and playoffs showed when Davis was healthy.
The Jazz can’t be trusted after back-to-back embarrassing postseason flameouts. The Mavericks haven’t improved enough. The Trail Blazers are a losing streak away from self-combusting. The Grizzlies and Pelicans are still a couple of players away from being a true conference threat.
Thus, the West appears wide open for the Lakers’ taking.
The Lakers extracted incredible value in free agency with the allure of Los Angeles, the franchise’s golden history and the opportunity to compete for a championship next season with James, Davis and Westbrook. The only remaining items on the organization’s offseason to-do list are filling the final two or three spots on the roster and determining if they’re going to sign-and-trade Caruso and/or Schröder.
Aside from the Caruso blunder — one that could ultimately prove costlier than deciding to pay a lower luxury-tax bill — the first 24 hours were about as successful as reasonably possible given their limited resources to address their weaknesses and improve the roster.
Time will tell if next season’s Lakers team is better than last season’s squad or the 2020 title group, but it’s certainly different.
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Caruso sign and trade is still on the table?
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That will be an interesting thing to watch. Remember Vogel has not his contract extended yet. I’m sure he’ll be ok but last year he was confused as hell with his rotations
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do we have stats of our new guys and how performance percentage wise on 3’s uncontested and spot up?
