Let's face it, Jay-Z is the bar in which we compare rappers to because he is the best. PERIOD

[Maximus Meridius]

The comments in here from both haters and stans :x

"People only know jay globally because of Beyonce"

"Nas is not good at all"


Wow.

 

[CUNNiNGH4M]

Alot of ya stuck in jay-z's lap ya dont understand that once u leave those international borders

Its a whole different ball game.

50 is bigger then jay-z globally. Its like how kobe is sooo much bigger then lebron

In china.

Jay-z before Beyonce wasnt anyone serious internationally. Its like how lil wayne is HUGE

Here but across those borders he's just another rapper.

50 is big where they dont speak english and cant understand how wack he is

 

[Remy LeBeau]

It's pretty funny people debate the Renegade song when Em's verse was laid down with Royce Da 5'9" probably weeks to months in advance, and Jay-Z still couldn't write or "freestyle" a verse better than Em's.

QFT

 

[antidope]

Alot of ya stuck in jay-z's lap ya dont understand that once u leave those international borders

Its a whole different ball game.

50 is bigger then jay-z globally. Its like how kobe is sooo much bigger then lebron

In china.

Jay-z before Beyonce wasnt anyone serious internationally. Its like how lil wayne is HUGE

Here but across those borders he's just another rapper.

Da irony

 

[deuce king]

Alot of ya stuck in jay-z's lap ya dont understand that once u leave those international borders

Its a whole different ball game.

50 is bigger then jay-z globally. Its like how kobe is sooo much bigger then lebron

In china.

Jay-z before Beyonce wasnt anyone serious internationally. Its like how lil wayne is HUGE

Here but across those borders he's just another rapper.

Have you ever even been overseas to confirm champ??

 

[Jordan8]

Jus because 50 does more touring overseas doesn't mean he's "bigger"

It jus means he tours more overseas. Hell 50 tours more than Beyonce over seas

 

[niquefreak94]

Have you ever even been overseas to confirm champ??

doesn't matter if he has or hasn't. ninjahood just happens to be NT's local EVERYTHING expert.

 

[clarkkent415]

rollin

The usual suspects in this forum have been entertaining this argument for over 10 years! We are going to be arguing this point forever

Oh and btw Jay is the best.

Simply put, he's the Mike Jordan of rap.

Until somebody can consistently do these things*:

put out good to classic overall albums with memorable and often insightful lyrics
make not just "headphone" music but % that you can rock to in your car or the club
keep themselves relevant year after year (extend their "15 minutes of fame")
influence trends
push the hip hop culture to places it never been

*Just some of the great things he does consistently

in my eyes he will hold the crown PERIOD

 

[ninjahood]

Alot of ya stuck in jay-z's lap ya dont understand that once u leave those international borders

Its a whole different ball game.

50 is bigger then jay-z globally. Its like how kobe is sooo much bigger then lebron

In china.

Jay-z before Beyonce wasnt anyone serious internationally. Its like how lil wayne is HUGE

Here but across those borders he's just another rapper.

Have you ever even been overseas to confirm champ??

i am dominican after all, when get rich or die tryin came out it was ALLLLLLLLLL over DR, all my hick cousins were like "ese tipo fidy sence ta acabando"

i never heard that type of response from a rapper ever from Santo Domingo, imagine europe, africa, asia, etc. that dude was a global icon.

check his sales overseas VS jay-z, its not even close.

 

[ninjahood]

Have you ever even been overseas to confirm champ??

doesn't matter if he has or hasn't. ninjahood just happens to be NT's local EVERYTHING expert.

my friend's nicknamed me google cuz of my mastery savant level of complete random knowledge...my favorite book coming up was a almanac so it makes sense.

 

[deuce king]

Alot of ya stuck in jay-z's lap ya dont understand that once u leave those international borders

Its a whole different ball game.

50 is bigger then jay-z globally. Its like how kobe is sooo much bigger then lebron

In china.

Jay-z before Beyonce wasnt anyone serious internationally. Its like how lil wayne is HUGE

Here but across those borders he's just another rapper.

Have you ever even been overseas to confirm champ??

i am dominican after all, when get rich or die tryin came out it was ALLLLLLLLLL over DR, all my hick cousins were like "ese tipo fidy sence ta acabando"

i never heard that type of response from a rapper ever from Santo Domingo, imagine europe, africa, asia, etc. that dude was a global icon.

check his sales overseas VS jay-z, its not even close.

Well thanks for the history lesson.  All that being said Jay Z headlined Glastonbury Festival in 2008.  Him headlining Glastonbury had little to nothing to do with him being with Beyonce.  If that were the case, Beyonce would have been asked to be there or be apart of his set along with him.  Your point of Jay only being known globally because of Beyonce just doesn't connect.

 

[Baby Face Nelson]

The usual suspects in this forum have been entertaining this argument for over 10 years! We are going to be arguing this point forever

Oh and btw Jay is the best.

Simply put, he's the Mike Jordan of rap.

Until somebody can consistently do these things*:

put out good to classic overall albums with memorable and often insightful lyrics
make not just "headphone" music but %&# that you can rock to in your car or the club
keep themselves relevant year after year (extend their "15 minutes of fame")
influence trends
push the hip hop culture to places it never been

*Just some of the great things he does consistently

in my eyes he will hold the crown PERIOD

I swear some of y'all say the dumbest things regarding the criteria to be the best rapper alive. Trinidad James have memorable lyrics in "All Good Everything" does that make him the best rapper? Future has music that you can rock in your car and in the club, is he the best?  Dr. Dre and Snoop keep themselves relevant year after year and have extended their 15 mins of fame. Cam'ron and Lil Wayne influenced trends by wearing pink and skinny jeans. Eminem has sold the most Hip-Hop albums outside of the United States, so he has taken hip hop culture to places it's never been. By his own body of work alone, he hasn't put out a good album in 10 years, so where does all this "consistently" talk come from? He's a Hip-Hop mogul for sure when it comes to the business opportunities he's been able to establish for himself. Diddy, Stunna, and 50 are also on top of those lists, so lets not get carried away and think you can obtain financial success solely based off of your lyrics.

 

[ninjahood]

Alot of ya stuck in jay-z's lap ya dont understand that once u leave those international borders

Its a whole different ball game.

50 is bigger then jay-z globally. Its like how kobe is sooo much bigger then lebron

In china.

Jay-z before Beyonce wasnt anyone serious internationally. Its like how lil wayne is HUGE

Here but across those borders he's just another rapper.

Have you ever even been overseas to confirm champ??

i am dominican after all, when get rich or die tryin came out it was ALLLLLLLLLL over DR, all my hick cousins were like "ese tipo fidy sence ta acabando"

i never heard that type of response from a rapper ever from Santo Domingo, imagine europe, africa, asia, etc. that dude was a global icon.

check his sales overseas VS jay-z, its not even close.

Well thanks for the history lesson.  All that being said Jay Z headlined Glastonbury Festival in 2008.  Him headlining Glastonbury had little to nothing to do with him being with Beyonce.  If that were the case, Beyonce would have been asked to be there or be apart of his set along with him.  Your point of Jay only being known globally because of Beyonce just doesn't connect.

 beyonce can do glastonbury in 20 different countries, so can 50 cent, and eminem.

jay-z and lil wayne's power becomes super limited once they leave da continental United States.

did you see da infographic on get rich or die trying? jay-z has NEVER done that in his prime, and will never do that unless he actually tours da world.

there's a difference between being a man in da US, and being a international superstar, jay-z is no international superstar, he might make noise in some parts of europe, but

owning da world takes alot more then what jay-z has in his discography's firepower.

beyonce is MILES ahead of jay-z internationally, and if you keep it to just rappers, eminem, & 50 cent, you think rocafella got clout internationally? lulz try da wu-tang-clan.

hell SNOOP is a bigger draw internationally then jay-z.

this is why jay-z being "crowned" da best is so ludicrous because there's so many holes in that statement is sounds hilarious just rationalizing it.

 

[Bend_The_Knee]

At the end of the day Jay gave us the Blueprint

And Reasonable Doubt And Black Album.

 

[send one]

I swear nobody rides harder for their fav. rapper than Jay stans!

 

[Bend_The_Knee]

I swear nobody rides harder for their fav. rapper than Jay stans!

In general or on NT?

I can give you one worse on NT.

 

[antidope]

Now Snoop Dogg who hasn't stopped a decent album in a decade is somehow bigger than JAY-Z..... Off the strength of what? What has he done in the last decade that can warrant such a ludicrous statement? Last I checked, JAY-Z just went on an overseas tour while snoop was doing who knows what. It's hilarious that you keep using 50 and GRODT as a point. "JAY-Z will never do that unless he tours da world" as if what 50 did was a normal occurrence. NO ONE will do what 50 did, it's an anomaly. Nas couldn't do it either so there goes that....

The second you start applying your points to other rappers they fall short of meeting the criteria moreso than Hov does. Watch The The one debuted at number one in 23 countries yet he has no international reach, the fact that he can even sell out an overseas venue proves he has large international reach. How many rappers today could do that? Probably not even 10. Where does he land on the list of most records sold globally by a rapper, 4th? Yet he has no international reach. Ok.... I dont think he'd be mad that 3 people outsold him internationally, Jordan doesn't lead the league all time in every statistical category but it's obvious that he's the GOAT. Same concept applies here

And to top it all off, name one of these rappers that supposedly have a larger international reach that are better than him, you know at rapping? What this topic was originally about? Don't worry I will wait.

 

[ninjahood]

Now Snoop Dogg who hasn't stopped a decent album in a decade is somehow bigger than JAY-Z..... Off the strength of what? What has he done in the last decade that can warrant such a ludicrous statement? Last I checked, JAY-Z just went on an overseas tour while snoop was doing who knows what. It's hilarious that you keep using 50 and GRODT as a point. "JAY-Z will never do that unless he tours da world" as if what 50 did was a normal occurrence. NO ONE will do what 50 did, it's an anomaly. Nas couldn't do it either so there goes that....

The second you start applying your points to other rappers they fall short of meeting the criteria moreso than Hov does. Watch The The one debuted at number one in 23 countries yet he has no international reach, the fact that he can even sell out an overseas venue proves he has large international reach. How many rappers today could do that? Probably not even 10. Where does he land on the list of most records sold globally by a rapper, 4th? Yet he has no international reach. Ok.... I dont think he'd be mad that 3 people outsold him internationally, Jordan doesn't lead the league all time in every statistical category but it's obvious that he's the GOAT. Same concept applies here

And to top it all off, name one of these rappers that supposedly have a larger international reach that are better than him, you know at rapping? What this topic was originally about? Don't worry I will wait.

i can use other rappers to strengthen my point and debunk da thread topic talking about "jay-z is da best" when he CLEARLY isn't.

50 & eminem are bigger stars then him internationally

nas is a better rapper them him artistically (still hasn't beat illmatic or it was written)

and as far as sales.

sooooo...anyway you slice it jay-z isn't da best. he's one of da elite sure..best? nah.

 

[trynafeelmink]

my friend's nicknamed me google cuz of my mastery savant level of complete random knowledge...my favorite book coming up was a almanac so it makes sense.

My ***** are you serious right now

 

[antidope]

Now Snoop Dogg who hasn't stopped a decent album in a decade is somehow bigger than JAY-Z..... Off the strength of what? What has he done in the last decade that can warrant such a ludicrous statement? Last I checked, JAY-Z just went on an overseas tour while snoop was doing who knows what. It's hilarious that you keep using 50 and GRODT as a point. "JAY-Z will never do that unless he tours da world" as if what 50 did was a normal occurrence. NO ONE will do what 50 did, it's an anomaly. Nas couldn't do it either so there goes that....

The second you start applying your points to other rappers they fall short of meeting the criteria moreso than Hov does. Watch The The one debuted at number one in 23 countries yet he has no international reach, the fact that he can even sell out an overseas venue proves he has large international reach. How many rappers today could do that? Probably not even 10. Where does he land on the list of most records sold globally by a rapper, 4th? Yet he has no international reach. Ok.... I dont think he'd be mad that 3 people outsold him internationally, Jordan doesn't lead the league all time in every statistical category but it's obvious that he's the GOAT. Same concept applies here

And to top it all off, name one of these rappers that supposedly have a larger international reach that are better than him, you know at rapping? What this topic was originally about? Don't worry I will wait.

i can use other rappers to strengthen my point and debunk da thread topic talking about "jay-z is da best" when he CLEARLY isn't.

50 & eminem are bigger stars then him internationally

nas is a better rapper them him artistically (still hasn't beat illmatic or it was written)

and as far as sales.

sooooo...anyway you slice it jay-z isn't da best. he's one of da elite sure..best? nah.

 The graph from the Boxden thread.

Yeah I saw that and didnt post it cause it had nothing to do with the convo since its about US sales, but since you've introduced it... Being second in the US in sales is nowhere near something to sneeze at, its highly impressive. Not sure how this discredits him. He cant be number one in everything, and hes going up against a guy who quite frankly has a larger crossover appeal because of his skin color. Lets not make a big deal about this point, not trying to turn this into something or not, but it is what it is.

Nas isnt better than him artistically, but I'm not getting into this again.

You've brought other rappers into the topic, yes but you havent done anything to debunk the orginal thesis. You introduced two criteria into the discussion originally, and instead of comparing both at once, you've split them between people. How much sense does it make to introduce the criteria of rapping skills and sales, introduce rappers to challenge JAY-Z, then only use one of the criteria for each of them. In order to have a true comparison you have to use both at once. It is the only way to keep it fair and so you cant just manipulate things to further your opinion which is exactly what you have been doing. Smoke and Mirrors and deception. Lets see what happens when this is gone about rationally.

First off can we all agree that the category of who is more artistic/better is more important than sales? That makes sense doesnt it? Thats my opinion and how I will be doing this.

Eminem

Has he sold more than JAY-Z? YES. Is he better than him? NO

50 Cent

Has he sold more than JAY-Z? YES(I still havent seen anything concrete on this one but lets just give it to him). Is he better than him? NO

Nas

Has he sold more than JAY-Z? NO. Is he better than him? NO.

We can keep doing this all day long. When you look at the basis for your argument from a logical standpoint instead of fusing two people into one (Eminem sold more and Nas is better) and twisting the criteria your agenda, it becomes painfully obvious that you have no leg to stand on here.

 

[bigrockford]

Let me simplify it. You say Jay is the best, why?

Lyrics = No. Nas, Em are lyrically better

Album Sales = No. Em has dusted him

"Song Making" = No. Em (even 50 has better song making abilities), Give Ye time and he will be at the top of this list if he is not already.

Because he brought us (place favorite Jay album here) = No. Illmatic > Jays discography

Its that simple..

 

[addict4sneakers]

Nas isnt better than him artistically, but I'm not getting into this again.

please do.

 

[antidope]

Let me simplify it. You say Jay is the best, why?

Lyrics = No. Nas, Em are lyrically better

Album Sales = No. Em has dusted him

"Song Making" = No. Em (even 50 has better song making abilities), Give Ye time and he will be at the top of this list if he is not already.

Because he brought us (place favorite Jay album here) = No. Illmatic > Jays discography

Its that simple..

Lyrics-Yes, hes better than both you mentioned

Album sales- Cool hes not first. Being 4th isnt that big of a deal, again Jordan isnt number 1 in every statistical category

Song Making- JAY-Z wins again.

The Blueprint >Nas' discography.

Its THAT simple

Nas isnt better than him artistically, but I'm not getting into this again.

please do.

But why? It wont do anything to further the conversation and it will derail this into something ugly. Its happened time and time again.

 

[addict4sneakers]

i don't like eminem at all, but i respect his work, talent, and his status as a legend. i wouldn't sit her and say "nas is flat out a better artist than him" solely based of my dislike for dude.

 

[Bend_The_Knee]

No way Blueprint > Nas discography.


Nothing and I mean NOTHING touches Illmatic.

NADA!!!!!!