Maradona VS.Pele Greatest Player Of All Time

[platinumfunk]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Zidane

Not even Zidane would agree with this. Zidane is not on the same level as Pele and Maradona. It's not even close. Watch any interview with the greats of the game (Cruiyff, Beckenbauer, etc etc) and they will say Maradona and Pele are in their own category and everyone else is below them.

Zidane never carried France to a WC title like Maradona and Pele did for their respective countries. Go back and watch the 1998 WC...Zidane did not play well throughout the entire tournament...in fact, he was inconsistent that tournament (he missed 1.5 matches due to a red card against Saudi Arabia). In 2006 Zidane did not do anything in the group stage (missed the 3rd match due to suspension), played great against Spain and Brazil but didnt do much against Portugal (scored a PK goal) or against Italy (headed a ball off the bar then got sent off).

Zidane is an all time great but he is not even CLOSE to Pele or Maradona. I cant speak much for Pele since there isnt much footage on him but Maradona is easily the most dominant player of the last 30-years.

As for OPs question, if you read/listen to a lot of pundits, and former players, they basically say its a toss-up.

and if you want to go with a toss-up in terms of skill... i think pele's resume trumps maradonas.
little fun-fact: within brazil, pele isnt even considered our greatest by many. a lot actually like to say garrincha was our greatest player ever.

 

[hugo]

Maradona

 

[carlos tevez]

Zidane wasnt even the best player in the 1998 WC. A certain Brazilian named Ronaldo was on top of his game during that month. In fact, Ronaldo won player of the tournament (and deservedly so).

 

[miamin2]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Wait...There is a member on NT actually old enough & knowledgeable who watched both players in their prime to answer the question at hand?

How did you get your avy that size?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

France suck right now because Domenech is the most ******ed coach in history. You cant convince me a team with this much talent shouldnt be WC contenders. Watch them become Euro 2012 contenders under Laurent Blanc.

xtapolat, would Argentina have won the 1986 WC without Maradona? Compare his performance in 1986 to Zidane's in 98 and 06. Many objective pundits say Maradona single-handedly (no pun intended) won that WC for Argentina.

One more thing...I'm not going to say Pele > Maradona or Maradona > Pele but I think that Maradona sometimes does not get enough credit because of his erratic behavior, drug problems, getting caught doping in 1994 and ofcourse the hand of god goal.

I fully agree that Domenech is a horrible coach. But the thing is, the fact that Domenech is such a horrible coach works FOR Zidane's case for being the GOAT. Because Domenech was their coach as well in 2006 (well, not really, Zidane was). But they still got to the final on Zidane's greatness despite having the handicap of Domenech being their coach. Zidane through his genious controlled the game on the pitch and led the France to victory more than Domenech could lead France to failure from the sidelines.

I can also make my criteria that suits Zidane's case better than Maradona's. For example, in the 1986 final, the tournament where Maradona was oh so dominant, he didn't score a goal, even though he did have a great assist. But in the 1998 final Zidane scored twice. Maradona was great in the 1986 tournament, but the truth is that he gets extra hype because of the "hand of God" controversy, for his spectacular England goal that is perhaps the most played highlight in history of the World Cup, and not least for his extravagant personality. The truth is that, if you compare them game by game, Maradona's impact on the 1986 World Cup wasn't that much greater than Romario's was on the 1994 World Cup. Romario was amazingly consistent in 1994, scoring 5 goals in 5 different games and having a great impact in both the first and knockout stages. He was just tremendous. The one game where he didn't score (other than the final, that went to penalties because noone scored) was the first game of the knockout round against the U.S., where Bebeto scored on a tremendous assist by Romario that was better than the goal itself.

But you never really hear much about Romario's 1994 World Cup dominance, in fact not even close to Maradona 1986 hype because unlike Maradona's in 1986 it wasn't shrouded in controversy and he didn't score a goal that was spectacular enough to be played forever in the highlights.

And I don't care what Cruyff and Beckenbauer say, they are mad salty because Zidane overtook them both in the discussion of the GOAT European player. And don't even get me started on the extra salty Platini.

 

[draydray87]

What about the guy named George Best? I mean... his name pretty much says it all doesn't it?

 

[draydray87]

double

 

[gil23]

YOU CAN MAKE A CASE FOR THIS GUY TOO....

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by PlatinumFunk

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Zidane

Not even Zidane would agree with this. Zidane is not on the same level as Pele and Maradona. It's not even close. Watch any interview with the greats of the game (Cruiyff, Beckenbauer, etc etc) and they will say Maradona and Pele are in their own category and everyone else is below them.

Zidane never carried France to a WC title like Maradona and Pele did for their respective countries. Go back and watch the 1998 WC...Zidane did not play well throughout the entire tournament...in fact, he was inconsistent that tournament (he missed 1.5 matches due to a red card against Saudi Arabia). In 2006 Zidane did not do anything in the group stage (missed the 3rd match due to suspension), played great against Spain and Brazil but didnt do much against Portugal (scored a PK goal) or against Italy (headed a ball off the bar then got sent off).

Zidane is an all time great but he is not even CLOSE to Pele or Maradona. I cant speak much for Pele since there isnt much footage on him but Maradona is easily the most dominant player of the last 30-years.

As for OPs question, if you read/listen to a lot of pundits, and former players, they basically say its a toss-up.

and if you want to go with a toss-up in terms of skill... i think pele's resume trumps maradonas.
little fun-fact: within brazil, pele isnt even considered our greatest by many. a lot actually like to say garrincha was our greatest player ever.

Yeah, I've heard that. I've also heard a lot of Brazilians say that Zico is the greatest Brazilian ever. I was like WTH?

 

[persiafly]

Tevez, to be frank, your arguments against Zidane smack of pro-Argentine bias. Xtapo explained why pretty well.

I like how you didn't mention that Argentina made it to the 1990 Final DESPITE Maradona's injury's and missed PK. He didn't do much to help that squad get to the Final, and if anything, he could've caused their early exit.

And what about the fact that Argentina had enough talent to win the World Cup the tournament before Maradona's first appearance?

So France's performances in 1998 and 2006 weren't credit to Zidane, although the team didn't qualify for the 1994 World Cup, didn't score a goal in 2002, and hasn't scored a goal yet in 2010; but Argentina's success was fully credit to Maradona even though the team won the tournament without him in 1978 and got to the Final without much help from him in 1990? Not a strong argument.

This is what always happens when Maradona and Zidane are compared, people try to bludgeon you with Maradona's greatness and how "even Zidane himself wouldn't believe he was better," instead of actually looking at results. Nothing new here.

 

[carlos tevez]

It has nothing to do with pro-Argentine bias. What does Argentina's 1978 WC win have to do with Maradona's dominance in 1986? 8 years is an ETERNITY in this sport. Argentina would not have won the 1986 WC without Maradona.

Zidane scored 2 goals in the 1998 finals but overall he did not have that great of a tournament. He only played 1 full group stage match (France won all 3 matches). Round-of-16? Zidane was suspended for his red card in the 2nd match of the tournament. France ended up beating Paraguay in extra time. In the quarter-finals France beat Italy on PKs after a 0-0 draw. They beat Croatia in the semis thanks to 2 goals by Thuram, both which Zidane did not have any involvement in. And ofcourse he scored 2 goals in the finals to which he deserves full credit for. However, when you look at Zidane's tournament as a whole, he was far from dominant. He had 1 great match in the finals but otherwise he did not stand out. He wasnt even the best player in the tournament in which he won the WC. Ronaldo was the best player in the tournament and the world at the time and was voted player of the tournament. Unfortunately Ronaldo suffered a seizure the night before the finals and wasnt supposed to play but the Brazil staff ignored the team doctor's suggestion that Ronaldo sit out the match.

Now compare that to Maradona's 1986 tournament. Maradona leads Argentina to victory over South Korea and scores the tying goal against Italy (a result which helped Argentina win the group). He goes on to score both of Argentina's goals against England in the QFs, scores both goals against Belgium in the semis and directly assists the game winning goal in the WC finals. He wins player of the tournament.

Who was more instrumental in their country's WC triumph?

Forget about stats, trophies won, goals scored, etc. I urge you to watch video of Maradona during his playing days. Then watch videos of Zidane. There is no comparison at all. Whatsoever.

 

[carlos tevez]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h.../teams/france/814529.stm

Platini, who captained the French sideto success at Euro 84, has said that Zidane is a great player, but isno match for the likes of Argentinian legend Diego Maradona.

"Zidane does some extraordinary things, it's true. But you have to put everything in context. What Zidane does with a ball, Maradona could do with an orange," he added.

Cruiff and Beckenbauer are jealous of Zidane? I guess Platini is jealous of Zidane too.

Zidane idolized Maradona. Ask Zidane if he thinks he's better than Maradona

BTW, I think its normal for people to forget about players of the past and think that contemporary players are better/the best ever. We see it here with dudes who think Kobe is better than MJ (even though many of them are too young to have seen MJ in his prime). This is also an issue in soccer discussions...a few years ago you had people claiming that Ronaldo was the best ever...then it was Ronaldinho...now its Messi. I never got to see much footage of Pele so I cant say Maradona is better but many of us are familiar with players who've played over the last 30-years when the sport began to get televised on a large scale basis. No one single-handedly changed and dominated matches over the last 30-years as Maradona. As great as Zidane was, he did not have as much of an impact on the pitch as Maradona did.

We havent even compared their club careers. Look at what Maradona did for Napoli.

 

[keepie uppie]

 

[codliveroil]

son is AI on the soccer court

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h.../teams/france/814529.stm

Platini, who captained the French sideto success at Euro 84, has said that Zidane is a great player, but isno match for the likes of Argentinian legend Diego Maradona.

"Zidane does some extraordinary things, it's true. But you have to put everything in context. What Zidane does with a ball, Maradona could do with an orange," he added.

Cruiff and Beckenbauer are jealous of Zidane? I guess Platini is jealous of Zidane too.

Zidane idolized Maradona. Ask Zidane if he thinks he's better than Maradona

BTW, I think its normal for people to forget about players of the past and think that contemporary players are better/the best ever. We see it here with dudes who think Kobe is better than MJ (even though many of them are too young to have seen MJ in his prime). This is also an issue in soccer discussions...a few years ago you had people claiming that Ronaldo was the best ever...then it was Ronaldinho...now its Messi. I never got to see much footage of Pele so I cant say Maradona is better but many of us are familiar with players who've played over the last 30-years when the sport began to get televised on a large scale basis. No one single-handedly changed and dominated matches over the last 30-years as Maradona. As great as Zidane was, he did not have as much of an impact on the pitch as Maradona did.

We havent even compared their club careers. Look at what Maradona did for Napoli.


All good and well, but the fact of the matter is that no soccer player has had a greater effect on his team's success/failure over the course of his career than Zidane. With him they were champions of the world, champions of Europe, runners up at the World Cup. Without him they fail to score a single goal at the World Cup. You can try to attribute this to everything and everyone but Zidane, but it's fact. It doesn't matter if Maradona could dribble better, of if Jesus Christ himself says Maradona was better. Zidane did more for France over the course of his career than Maradona did for Argentina, relative to what their teams were without them. If that's not how you define the greatness of a player, then we're arguing two different things. There's no way to know who was "better" in the sense of having more soccer skill or being able to dribble better or controlling the field, that's all subjective and difficult to quantify. You say Zidane "did not have as much of an impact on the pitch as Maradona did," but that's not something you can back up with evidence, it's just a claim that you're making, and it may or may not be true. All we have to base all of this on is their bodies of work, and Zidane's is as impressive as any player in history given what France was without him, and the trophies they won with him. His "impact on the pitch" was great enough that France was a world-class team with him playing and an awful team without him. 

 

[hannsum]

maradona was more skilled.
he was voted no.1.

can't %$@* with maradona.

 

[carlos tevez]

Skill level is not subjective though. Brian Ching vs. Fernando Torres. Who is more skilled? Leo Messi or Sidney Govou? Who's more skilled? Who's better? Maicon or Glen Johnson? If it's so subjective then how do fans/pundits/coaches/clubs determine skill level of players? By looking at stat sheets and team accomplishments or by watching players play? There is no way you can watch Maradona play and Zidane play and claim that Zidane was more skilled/dominant than the Argentine. It makes no sense at all.

I believe you are somewhat exaggerating Zidane's impact on France and not giving Maradona enough credit for what he did for Argentina. Yes, Zidane was on championship winning French sides in 1998 and 2000. However, I already used facts to prove Zidane did not have a standout tournament in 1998. He was suspended for 2 matches which France ended up winning, France also won the match in which he was sent off. He comes back for the QFs and Semis and doesnt score or assist any of France's goals. He has a great finals and all of a sudden he dominated the tournament? The same tournament in which his Brazilian counterpart won best player?

France did not do well in the 2002 WC in part to Zidane's injury. However, Zidane was healthy for Euro 2004 and France were eliminated in the QFs. Surely Zidane's absence in 2002 was over-stated seeing as how the same France team failed 2 years later with Zidane playing healthy and well.

As for Maradona and Argentina, his country won the WC on home soil in 1978. 4 years later they were relatively poor in the WC with Maradona not yet in his prime. Four years later Maradona takes the WC by storm and helps his country win their group, scores all 4 goals for his country in the QFs and semis and assists the winning goal in the finals. Are we really going to act like this Argentina team were not carried by Maradona?

Lets not even compare their club careers. Find me a period in Zidane's career where he elevated a mid-table club like Napoli into a European power.

 

[ajiiiplatinum]

Originally Posted by Keepie Uppie

AWESOME