Official 2013 NBA Offseason Thread

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marath0n said:
I think Kobe is in the discussion to replace any one of them not named Jordan.
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hes about to replace a dude with 11 rings, and another dude who averaged 30 and 23?  Or the only player to average a triple double?  
 
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ReggieKILLER said:
marath0n said:
You're right, I got sucked in
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Dude really said George Mikan
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I'm done. I Promise to never engage in the GOAT argument again.
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Whats wrong with Mikan?  His contribution to the game is top 10.  Period.  Now if we're making a list of the top 10 BEST players thats a different story
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i never understood how someone can rank a certain player in a certain position that they never saw play. i understand there are stats and there is footage of past games but so much happens in a game that cannot be put on paper. just my .02 cents.
 
Runnin Thangz said:
You are entitled to your opinion.



However, Kobe isn't even considered the greatest Laker by many, as that title is held by Magic Johnson, who is qualified to supplant Oscar on that list. Magic will tell you that Kobe is better than he is on an individual level, but as a team player, a leader?

Even Kobe would laugh at the suggestion.
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No Kobe wouldn't. You still don't know kobe
 
franc said:
i never understood how someone can rank a certain player in a certain position that they never saw play. i understand there are stats and there is footage of past games but so much happens in a game that cannot be put on paper. just my .02 cents.
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I understand that argument.  But being the first NBA superstar, and having 5 rings gets you into top 10 consideration in my book.  By that logic nobody after 1986 would be top 10
 
How Dr. J isnt in anyones top 5 makes me :smh:. Dude was Jordan before Jordan. In no particular order......

Magic
Jordan
Dr. J
Russell
Kareem/Wilt
 
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ReggieKILLER said:
marath0n said:
I think Kobe is in the discussion to replace any one of them not named Jordan.
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hes about to replace a dude with 11 rings, and another dude who averaged 30 and 23?  Or the only player to average a triple double?  
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Bill Russell:

11 rings in an era with 10 teams and 1st round byes in the playoffs. Averaged 15 and 20 against competition that had to take second jobs to make a living. 15 points.

And stats don't tell the whole story but I absolutely agree Oscar is top 5.
 
franc said:
ReggieKILLER said:
marath0n said:
You're right, I got sucked in :smh:


Dude really said George Mikan :rofl: :rofl:


I'm done. I Promise to never engage in the GOAT argument again.
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Whats wrong with Mikan?  His contribution to the game is top 10.  Period.  Now if we're making a list of the top 10 BEST players thats a different story
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i never understood how someone can rank a certain player in a certain position that they never saw play. i understand there are stats and there is footage of past games but so much happens in a game that cannot be put on paper. just my .02 cents.
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Agreed 100%
 
marath0n said:
Bill Russell:

11 rings in an era with 10 teams and 1st round byes in the playoffs. Averaged 15 and 20 against competition that had to take second jobs to make a living. 15 points.

And stats don't tell the whole story but I absolutely agree Oscar is top 5.
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He did it against Wilt who people consider a top player of all time. 
 
Runnin Thangz said:
Agreed.

Furthermore, I love, if he actually did it, what Dwight tried to do.

Why would Dwight Howard want to help Kobe Bryant try and out do Jordan, so Kobe could try and be called the greatest player ever? Why would anyone want to help Bryant do something like that? That is all this is about. Kobe is hell bent on trying to out do Jordan, and will do anything to try and be in the conversation of best ever. No player worth his merit, should even want to try and help Bryant reach this goal. The only thing that would happen is that Kobe would get all of the accolades, no matter how horribly he plays.

During this championship run by the Heat, we've seen how the league is so much better off without Kobe Bryant, and how he wont be missed.

Good riddance, and I hope he never comes back.
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Lol, well it appears we have to deal with him for at least another two seasons, smh!

I have no clue why other players want to go help him try (operative word) to out do Mike. It's super obvious what his ulterior motives are.

Suberzat1 said:
Na the playoffs still felt different with kobe not playing, knowing that the lakers wasnt winning just the effort from kobe. Shaq and kobe play two different position. With shaq u was not looking for difficulty shot or game winners to push a game five from shaq. I would have said that the game was fine when jordan left than shaq leaving. I think harden filled that passion this season and playoffs. Kobe overdue ?? but he still putting up better stat lines than 85% of the players in the league. 
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The game was def not fine when Mike left. Entertainment wise nor financially speaking.

Point is the game was fine when Shaq left la and retired just like it will be fine when bryant leaves (if he ever hurries up).

durantula said:
But that's what makes Kobe great. Even thought it's a pipe dream for him to try to reach jordan, that competitiveness is what makes Kobe, Kobe.
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Doesn't make him great in my mind. Makes him look foolish and immature especially when he is hurting his team in the process. If he ever had to pick between his kids or passing Mike up in his accomplishments I guarantee he would have to consider which speaks volumes about this guy.

GotHolesInMySocks said:
Even if he got his 6th, he's still not touching Jordan.
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Basically but that's not true in Bryant's mind and that's all that matters to him.

I honestly feel (and hope) bryant ends his career something similar to how Mike started his career. Buckets after buckets L's after L's and barely making playoffs...
 
people talk so much **** about dwight's offense and how he doesn't belong with the all time greats but bill russell never even shot 45% in a watered down league
 
ReggieKILLER said:
marath0n said:
Bill Russell:


11 rings in an era with 10 teams and 1st round byes in the playoffs. Averaged 15 and 20 against competition that had to take second jobs to make a living. 15 points.


And stats don't tell the whole story but I absolutely agree Oscar is top 5.
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He did it against Wilt who people consider a top player of all time. 
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I feel you but it's the same damn era. He did ir with a better supporting cast against One player on one team out of 10 teams.
 
"One of the biggest differences between the two stars from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader," Jackson writes. "Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence. Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game, but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones, as Michael had in his bones."
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Runnin Thangz said:
marath0n said:
Not a lakers fan. Not a Kobe fan. Just a fan and participant of the game.

Has everyone been sleeping for the past 17 years? Watch the man play.
Kobe is top 5 of all time.
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Here you go,

Russell
Wilt
Oscar
Kareem
Jordan

Are these guys top five?

Who do you move?
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Id definitely take Oscar out of the top 5, you're better off making an argument for Magic or Bird there.
 
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ReggieKILLER said:
franc said:
i never understood how someone can rank a certain player in a certain position that they never saw play. i understand there are stats and there is footage of past games but so much happens in a game that cannot be put on paper. just my .02 cents.
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I understand that argument.  But being the first NBA superstar, and having 5 rings gets you into top 10 consideration in my book.  By that logic nobody after 1986 would be top 10
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i understand what you are saying. i just have a hard time buying someone that swears up and down about a players ranking at a certain tier among the all time greats that one did not see with their 2 eyes.

ex: i never saw magic johnson play ball. all i have is old videos, stats, and the word of people that actually watched him play. those people have more ground as to where he stands amongst the all time greats. i am in no position to say he should be ranked here nor there. magic was of the greats but me trying to put him in a certain position holds no ground since i did not watch him play.

hope this makes sense.
 
leemelone said:
people talk so much **** about dwight's offense and how he doesn't belong with the all time greats but bill russell never even shot 45% in a watered down league
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I dont recall anyone every crediting Russell for being a great offensive player.  But his accomplishments are what they are, watered down or not, he succeeded against the competition placed in front of him.  Won as a player, and was hand picked by Red Auerbach to succeed him as a player/coach.  Won 11 rings, and is one of the greatest to play the game.
 
Russell shot 45 pct because they could hard foul all the time, which drove down shooting percentages. Go read a history book or watch old NBA films

Also the league wasnt watered down in the Russells era
 
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Wilt

Russell

Jerry West

Elgin Baylor

Bob Pettit

Dave Debusschere

John Havlichek

Hal Greer

Willis Reed

Nate Thurmond

Jerry Lucas

Oscar Robertson

and I'm sure theres plenty I dont know about that are from the 60s
 
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