Official Health Care Debate Thread

incredibleev

incredibleev

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very important issue facing all sorts of demographics in America. Old people, young people, working people, everyone will face consequences and serious changesto their health care and what they're entitled to or able to receive. Thought I'd try to make a thread to centralize the debate.

i lean left and i believe we need reform and I think Obama's plan is a step in the right direction. 46 million americans do not have healthcare and imsorry but thats a problem. Its a problem that leads to bigger issues in our society ie. poverty, crime, etc. Everyone shuold be careful when reading orwatching the news, how things are worded can change how you view certain aspects of the plan.

looking to learn more from both sides as i don't know many specifics of obama's plan, and im curious as to everyone's opinions on this especiallyyoung heads like us on NT...do you even care?
 
rararrrraara socialism rararrararara obama is a racist rararrraraarara he was born in Kenyarararrarara this isn't my america!!!









This post was paid for by the Republican National Committee
 
Goldstein will be heard in this thread. Did Tbone get banned?



This thread will go 17+ pages before it gets locked. NT really doesn't need these type of debates. Just some ignorant dudes just throw around illegitimatefacts around to prove a point.
 
rararrararara obama is a racist rararrraraarara he was born in Kenya rararrarara this isn't my america!!!

Clearly those are my thoughts, just because I don't buy into his plan.
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It's obvious that healthcare should be more afforable, especially to children.. Hell, I don't even liek going to the doctor because of the bills, butthere's no secret that America's system should overhauled. I wouldn't say to the point of Universal because we know that won't happen..but wedefinitely should see an upgrade in the organization of medical files, patient entry, etc etc.

Time after time we see patients get bogged down with paperwork before they're actually able to seek care, and in some cases, people have died in thewaiting room. Just like all other issues this administration is dealing with, this is another one that should not be put on the backburner for decades to come.
 
Originally Posted by bijald0331

there will be multiple shots fired in this thread. e-town hall meeting
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I think OP should post a myth vs fact check in regards to this.

Those morons shouting at the top of their lungs in those meetings are yelling about things that aren't even true. I mean how hard is it to fact check thethings that you're screaming about?
 
Originally Posted by ruffreiter

rararrararara obama is a racist rararrraraarara he was born in Kenya
rararrarara this isn't my america!!!
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Clearly those are my thoughts, just because I don't buy into his plan.




You think that the health care system is fine as is?


What I don't get is how almost every progressive country has a cheaper and more efficient health care system than the US, why do we always HAVE to bedifferent JUST because we are America?

On a side note, this is really exposing how corrupt our politicians are, when you look at those opposing the bill, and how many of them are getting funded byInsurance companies. Something about that isn't right.
 
You think that the health care system is fine as is?

I don't think it is fine as is. I simply think this is not the way to go. The article I posted explains a lot.

What I don't get is how almost every progressive country has a cheaper and more efficient health care system than the US,
Although Canada has a population smaller than California, 830,000 Canadians are currently waiting to be admitted to a hospital or to get treatment, according to a report last month in Investor's Business Daily. In England, the waiting list is 1.8 million.
Doesn't sound too efficient to me.
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On a side note, this is really exposing how corrupt our politicians are, when you look at those opposing the bill, and how many of them are getting funded by Insurance companies. Something about that isn't right.

Isn't this pretty obvious?

Pelosi goes on TV and says this about health care insurers...
"It is somewhat immoral what they are doing. Of course, they have been immoral all along how they have treated the people that they insure... They are the villains in this. They have been part of the problem in a major way. They have been doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening. The public has to know that."
She says all this while she has been receiving a ton of money from Health Insurance companies.
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Pelosi ranked 55th among members of the 111th Congress in contributions from health insurers since the 1989-1990 election cycle, according to CRP, having taken in $186,750 (less than $20,000 per two-year cycle).



Since 1989, the health insurance industry has given current members of Congress $39.5 million, with Democrats collecting 52 percent of that. Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) has collected the most from the companies at $767,800, followed by Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio), whose health insurance money adds up to $737,260. President Obama received $1.3 million from the industry in the 2008 election cycle (and $1.4 million if you include his Senate fundraising). Among health insurers, Blue Cross/Blue Shield and AFLAC have made the greatest contributions to current members of Congress over time at $7 million and $5.7 million, respectively.
http://www.opensecrets.or...rers-owe-policyhold.html

Washington politicians are like the WWE. They go on TV and act their part but behind close doors you know damn well these Republicans and Democrats are winingand dining together.
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Yup, basically. I think they are all guilty of it, some more than others and I feel that is one of the reasons why there is so much opposition to it.

And about those numbers from Canada, they are extremely overrated and generalized. In fact the problem with the Canadian system is that it varies from provinceto province based on population.

I'm too exhausted with this issue to get into a debate, day and night for the past few weeks its the same thing over and over and over, and frankly adebate on NT wouldn't serve any purpose other than to entertain those of us who follow this stuff.
 
Originally Posted by wwsindicate

Yup, basically. I think they are all guilty of it, some more than others and I feel that is one of the reasons why there is so much opposition to it.

And about those numbers from Canada, they are extremely overrated and generalized. In fact the problem with the Canadian system is that it varies from province to province based on population.

I'm too exhausted with this issue to get into a debate, day and night for the past few weeks its the same thing over and over and over, and frankly a debate on NT wouldn't serve any purpose other than to entertain those of us who follow this stuff.
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Care to provide a link to more "accurate" numbers? Seems like you just threw out credible information soley because it doesn'tsupport your cause.
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Originally Posted by wwsindicate

What I don't get is how almost every progressive country has a cheaper and more efficient health care system than the US, why do we always HAVE to be different JUST because we are America?
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You answered the question yourself ...
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Being a physician I am very opposed to Obamacare, but I dont even wanna get started on everything it will lead too. Just a couple points

If you want decreased quality of care sure its a great idea. Right now people in the US get luxury care whether you will be able to pay or not ie one of my ptsearly 20's male without insurance just got a hundreds of thousands in surgery and will get probably close to a million in care if not more by the end. Surewe can subsidize care for the poor but not everyone can get Bentley type healthcare maybe ford focus type care but you giving everyone the latest and greatestin medical innovations just isnt feasible.

If you want rationing of care its also a great idea.

If you want the country to go bankrupt trying to pay for it sure it is good.

The point is you have to pay for all this care and taxing the "rich" to death still will not give you the funds needed.

Medicare is going broke trying to pay for just the elderly how are they going to be able to pay to cover everyone?

I am FULLY in support of healthcare reform, because our healthcare system is in desperate need of it but this is not the type of reform needed..
 
Originally Posted by Chi ILL

Originally Posted by wwsindicate

What I don't get is how almost every progressive country has a cheaper and more efficient health care system than the US, why do we always HAVE to be different JUST because we are America?
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You answered the question yourself ...
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That's a myth.

I personally have family in 2 countries with national healthcare and both say it sucks. It's not "awful" sucks but the care itself is not nearlyas good as we have.
 
Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

Originally Posted by wwsindicate

What I don't get is how almost every progressive country has a cheaper and more efficient health care system than the US, why do we always HAVE to be different JUST because we are America?
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You answered the question yourself ...
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That's a myth.

I personally have family in 2 countries with national healthcare and both say it sucks. It's not "awful" sucks but the care itself is not nearly as good as we have.
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Clearly, what THEY'RE saying is subjective, and apparently, contrary to the supposed facts...

...
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

Originally Posted by wwsindicate

What I don't get is how almost every progressive country has a cheaper and more efficient health care system than the US, why do we always HAVE to be different JUST because we are America?
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You answered the question yourself ...
laugh.gif
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That's a myth.

I personally have family in 2 countries with national healthcare and both say it sucks. It's not "awful" sucks but the care itself is not nearly as good as we have.
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Clearly, what THEY'RE saying is subjective, and apparently, contrary to the supposed facts...

...
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What supposed facts are you talking about?
Let's hash out these "facts". The WHO rankings?

Of course it's subjective but it's a much better opinion than those who've never experienced state run health care.
I'm talking about care here. Not cost. The quality of care is of utmost importance in healthcare, right?
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There is no question that the quality of care in the US, on average, isindisputably better than anywhere else.
 
Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Here's a more relevant question to me:

How will Physician salaries be effected by this?
PCP and then specialist.
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I don't know how much truth there is to this but my cousin informs me that Canadian doctors are paid more than American doctors are, onaverage.

Of course there are different rates of salary dependent on specialization and what not. But I am told on average, Canadian M.D.s are paid more.
 
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