Question For Christians

[james earl zones]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by iYen

Originally Posted by Wr

A lot of athiest argumentative points seem to be how ridiculous religion appears to them. Their arguments probably would be more recognizable, if their standpoint wasn't solely opinions. Real talk, we all haave been hurt by religions. Some people just seem to want to take this intellectual bravado approach like "You're not getting this one over on me" which seems to be some type of device used to overcompensate for past transgressions with religion. It is understandable and commendable once people acknowledgeable thisa and people can honestly debate from a true standpoint, and not these tough guy I'm smarter than this "God guy" strawmans.

This.
I agree with most of the opinions that athiests have, but I know some people(theist and atheist) aren't seriously trying to have a discourse if every sentence is ended with a

Can't you guys be civil and actually reach a conclusion instead of Meth having to come into these debates and lock it time and time again.

Again with the "arrogant atheist" accusations.  Most atheists will tell you that they don't 100% know that God(s) doesn't exist. 

How can you not laugh at people who don't understand evolution and science in general, and then use science as evidence of God's existence? 
How can you not laugh at people who pretend to be offended by cartoons and pictures with text so that they don't have to defend their position? 
How can you not laugh when their arguments are FULL OF LOGICAL FALLACIES?
How can you not laugh at the disgusting HYPOCRISY of these believers?

Their arguments for the existence of their God(s) are ridiculous and fallacious.  We laugh at Bill O'reilly for asking how did the Moon get here and saying that is direct evidence that the Judeo-Christian God exists.  Why can we not laugh at such ridiculous arguments made by NTers?  Do NTers have some kind of protected status?

  Of course not.

Just because we don't think that God(s) exist, that doesn't necessarily mean that we know how the universe got here.  We would go to the scientific experts on that.  But noooo, if we should science as a base for our knowledge, we are labeled that fake intellectuals.

  Seriously?

Originally Posted by James Earl Zones

Honestly if both sides didn't turn this into a debate there wouldn't be an issue. Both sides become aggressive for no reason. These threads could easily be discussions that both sides benefit from. I'm an atheist but I'd rather learn from a theist than argue with them.

What's wrong with a debate?  Are we merely supposed to state our positions and leave it at that?  We can't discuss or address the other side's position?  Atheists should learn from theists that hitting your wife is okay when she's out of line or that killing homosexuals is A-OK? 

We're trying to move away from religion, not closer to it. 

I'd rather a theist learn from an atheist, because theists really have no idea what atheism is.  Atheists already know plenty enough about theists and their religions.

Debates are fine, but not everything needs to be debated. Especially something neither side can prove. I'm not trying to move away from anything, religious people can do them. We just need to keep God and gods out of the government and out of our laws. I agree we should move away from it in that sense. Being a theist doesn't immediately make you a woman beater

and I'd rather we all learn from each other. Superiority complexes won't get us anywhere. You literally sound like the bigoted, close minded theists that I detest but I still treat them respectfully no matter how asinine I think their books are.

Is this your primary SN NikeAirForce?

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

AntonLaVey wrote:LOL @ the things he's admitted to believing in in this thread well after establishing that he believes every word int he Koran (I did a good job baiting him into that one)

-Beating women
-Slavery
-Murder of non-Muslims


What else can we get him to admit to?

I think both sides here are not arguing as logically when it comes to this debate on verses in the Qur'an.
First thing first,  you do have to read those verse in the context of history. These verses were not used at all times as a carte blanche to kill infidels and non-believers. I also do agree with you in some cases.

Murder of non muslims - Looking at the history of when Prophet Mohammed founded Islam, it was used as a tool for political and economic reasons that formed an Arab identity. It basically served as the pillar of the rise of the Arab "nation". 

Prophet Mohammed is seen as a philanthropist in the eyes of devout Muslims, but he was an army commander and a warrior who led the Arabs to triumph and conquest to build a powerful empire that succeeded to its prime centuries after his death. So yes, his hands are not clean of blood. He is no different than the greats like Napoleon and Genghis Khan. 

So when you read these verses think of them in a context of conventional warfare.

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Out of the the three monotheistic faiths, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, it is Islam that is the most progressive and advanced. [/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Slavery - Yes, Islam did not abolish it, but it was one of the first to see slavery as humans and provide "human rights" to slaves. But then again, look at the U.S. and how it was not abolished until 1808,right?[/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Veil - Different scholars disagree if it is mandatory. The verses are so vague that no one can say what it truly means. Some scholars argue that the verse demands to just cover your bosoms. The word "hijab" means to cover. There are no clear instructions to wear it around your face or even to wear one. It is Islamic scholars who instilled it. Let's also remember that wearing the veil did not became mainstream and widespread until about the late 1970s/early 1980s after the Iranian Khomeini revolution. Back in Kuwait, at 16 years old, my mom was the first to wear one in her class. It was more secular back then, and wearing the hijab was associated more with being religious. Now, it is more culture and identity as a Muslim woman. [/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beating women - That's not true. No one knows what the word "idrib" means in that context. It has many meanings. It can even mean "to separate". Scholars interpret it to how they want to suit their intentions. [/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, all in all, this is my take on it. Back when these religions were founded, why do some of you expect for them to be all fair with human rights?Of course they would be misogynistic and sexist.  At those times, human rights were not even essential when it came to many spheres of society. Take these foundations of these religions for what they were meant to be used for at the time for the functions of those societies. In this day and age, we still struggle with human rights to be fair and just.  Islam was certainly not, but given when it was founded, and given the context of  itshistory, it was a bit more progressive than others at the time. [/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The issue I think you should debate is the fact people follow institutionalized religious laws instilled 1400 years ago.  But, what some have done is changed the context a bit to fit modern times. [/font]

You're claiming "idrib" doesn't really have to mean hit "in that context"
and you're claiming that the Hijab isn't obligatory/is vague ? 
Are you sure you understand what the VAST majority of Islam's premier scholars have ruled on these issues ? Are you aware of  the strength of the evidences for the views ?

What legitimate scholars/evidences do you have for your claims ? By that I mean actual verses/authentic Hadith and rulings from respected scholars. Trying to portray things as just vague and reliant on the whims of whatever an individual scholar interprets as "for his own intentions" when in reality there are very strong evidences for the rulings is just plain dumb. 

I can easily cite deviant sects...random youtube scholars.... articles written by non-scholars...or even a couple of scholars who reached different conclusions (very small %)... and claim so and so is "vague" while ignoring the mountain of evidence to the contrary. 

lol @ anton claiming to have "baited me" into saying I believe every word of the Qur'an, (duh... it's a fundamental belief in Islam) as if this is something I'm supposed to be ashamed of or isn't a requirement of 1.3+ billion Muslims... anyone who claims to be Muslim but doesn't believe in every word of the Qur'an is surely a disbeliever. 

Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the actual word of god, yes? I'm curious to know how anyone could possibly misinterpret or misconstrue anything that god has directly stated. I'm failing to understand how an almighty god could fail at conveying a message. I'm even more confused as to why god would choose to reveal the most important message in the world in only one language. Your thoughts? I'm not claiming to know much about Islam, I'm just asking questions based on what little I know and what you've said in this topic. 

 

[iYen]

Can you (sillyputty) and Cap take this argument to the PMs?
Nothing from you two going back and forth with each other is "contributing" to the thread.
If anything you guys should just agree to disagree.

 

[tkthafm]

Human intellect/morality is limited.

No matter how clear you make something people will still do the opposite and find some way to support their claims. Doesn't mean that the error is in the message (or that it "failed at being conveyed") given... because the VAST majority agrees on the message (because they aren't trying to twist things).

Why only Arabic ? I don't really know how to answer this. That's what God chose, how should I know why or claim to know why ? That's what the language of the Prophet he chose was (although he was illiterate). Was God to send the Prophet the words in all the languages of the world at the time (which he couldn't understand/memorize) ? Obviously not. Remember, the Qur'an was revealed through WORDS, it's not like a book descended from the sky. Was God to choose one Prophet from each language ? I don't think so. (Obviously not all languages can convey the same meaning as precisely). Many would argue only Arabic has the capacity to even convey such deep meaning in the first place. Arabic is the language all prayers MUST be said in. Learning Arabic is thus a priority, and through this, the entire population of Muslims (1.3+ Billion) can unite and communicate and read/recite/share the EXACT same thing.. there is no confusion (as there would be if there were hundreds of different Qur'an's). When you go to pilgrimage in Mecca.. you are surrounded by millions of Muslims from all corners of the Earth all reciting the same prayer side by side in the same language. No confusion, just complete unity. You can only imagine the chaos there would be if there was no one agreed upon language. Remember that the majority of Muslims aren't even Arab.

Also through learning Arabic you can appreciate the linguistic/literary genius of the Qur'an. You can read the same exact verse translated in English but completely miss the fact that in Arabic, that ENTIRE SENTENCE was a palindrome and utilized other literary techniques to convey deeper messages.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

The human inclination to do the opposite of what god intended directly reflects on the creator, not the people. God creates us, we don't create ourselves.

I didn't expect you to provide a specific answer, I was just curious what your thoughts are. Choosing one language to spread the most important message in the world seems a bit odd and not very efficient.

Suggesting that Arabic is the only language that could convey such a deep meaning limits god, no? God should be omniscient and should therefore be able to do anything.

I don't see how Qur'ans in every language would be confusing. If the teachings are objectively true and easily understandable, there should be no confusion at all. Additionally, I don't understand how different sects of Islam exist if this message is objectively true.

 

[tkthafm]

Obviously no one is denying God created us with the nature we have... lol (that's kind of the point of religion)

I already explained why it would be impractical to choose different languages, and the 1.3+ billion Muslims (fastest growing religion on the planet) kind of goes to show how efficient the Arabic decision was. Obviously God is omniscient but the words of English are the words of English.. the words of Spanish are the words of Spanish (and so on) they are not equal in their ability to express certain ideas/instill certain emotions in the human mind. You can't exactly convey the same meaning in the hundreds.. thousands.. of languages out there, they are human made and thus obviously not created identically. Again, this is ignoring all the practical reasons against choosing multiple languages that I already mentioned. Even if God revealed the message in every language/dialect humanity used... there would be confusion/chaos/lack of unity/no ability to communicate/form governments/Islamic societies... Hajj would be impossible, congregational prayers (a hallmark of Islam) would lose their meaning. The entire point of it is to stand side by side with your fellow man (no matter their background where they are from) and recite the same prayers word for word in unity. 
Now which language do we use ? All sorts of conflict arises. (Which only goes to show the wisdom of God)

The reasons for the different sects goes back to the first sentence of my post, obviously human deviance is something you can't eliminate no matter how clear the message is. What's the point of religion/judgement if we are all perfect/become perfect upon hearing a message ? 

Remember that we also believe in the Devil and his influence on us as well.....

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

So you accept that god created man as an imperfect being with evil intentions? The whole idea of sin arises from god, but god is against sin and is against anything that does not correspond to his will. It doesn't really make sense that god created us with a sinful nature but then condemns us because of how we were created.

I'm not going to push the language discussion any further because, as I said, I was just curious to hear what you had to say. We could argue about it all day but that would be kind of pointless.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Human intellect/morality is limited.

No matter how clear you make something people will still do the opposite and find some way to support their claims. Doesn't mean that the error is in the message (or that it "failed at being conveyed") given... because the VAST majority agrees on the message (because they aren't trying to twist things).

Why only Arabic ? I don't really know how to answer this. That's what God chose, how should I know why or claim to know why ? That's what the language of the Prophet he chose was (although he was illiterate). Was God to send the Prophet the words in all the languages of the world at the time (which he couldn't understand/memorize) ? Obviously not. Remember, the Qur'an was revealed through WORDS, it's not like a book descended from the sky. Was God to choose one Prophet from each language ? I don't think so. (Obviously not all languages can convey the same meaning as precisely). Many would argue only Arabic has the capacity to even convey such deep meaning in the first place. Arabic is the language all prayers MUST be said in. Learning Arabic is thus a priority, and through this, the entire population of Muslims (1.3+ Billion) can unite and communicate and read/recite/share the EXACT same thing.. there is no confusion (as there would be if there were hundreds of different Qur'an's). When you go to pilgrimage in Mecca.. you are surrounded by millions of Muslims from all corners of the Earth all reciting the same prayer side by side in the same language. No confusion, just complete unity. You can only imagine the chaos there would be if there was no one agreed upon language. Remember that the majority of Muslims aren't even Arab.

Also through learning Arabic you can appreciate the linguistic/literary genius of the Qur'an. You can read the same exact verse translated in English but completely miss the fact that in Arabic, that ENTIRE SENTENCE was a palindrome and utilized other literary techniques to convey deeper messages.

So out of the many languages on this planet-current and dead, God chose Arabic?


Other religions written in other languages are irrelevant

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

أنت مجنون؟

 

[tkthafm]

Again, obviously man is imperfect (who would argue otherwise ?)

Our nature/pursuit of desires can lead to evil and sin. (Which the devil exploits). But we also have free will. The entire point of Islam is to submit to God and strive to worship him, do good deeds and avoid sin. It's a test -> that's his will, to test us. That's our only reason for existence. If we were created without free will or totally "good" or totally "evil" then it would be pointless.
and yes, that's the language God chose. Don't see how that's worth 30 

 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

أنت مجنون؟

reported

I don't speak Arabic but I feel like you definitely just called me the nword

 

[ill legal operation]

"Humans":





"Christ":





"I Believe, But I Don't Understand":





"Believer Turned Atheist":





















...metaphorically speaking of course.

 

[hoop24]

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet...Jesus won't come until the gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached unto the whole world...meaning every living soul will have the chance to hear the gospel preached and a chance to except Jesus as their Lord and Savior.  That means that even if there are lost tribes hid in mountains that people from the outside world are unable to reach, those souls will eventually hear the gospel...meaning God will send someone to them some how some way.  Matt. 24:14 explains this...really verse 3 on down, but verse 14 clearly states it.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Again, obviously man is imperfect (who would argue otherwise ?)

Our nature/pursuit of desires can lead to evil and sin. (Which the devil exploits). But we also have free will. The entire point of Islam is to submit to God and strive to worship him, do good deeds and avoid sin. It's a test -> that's his will, to test us. That's our only reason for existence. If we were created without free will or totally "good" or totally "evil" then it would be pointless.
and yes, that's the language God chose. Don't see how that's worth 30 

 

So Hindus are wrong?

Scriptures written in hebrew are wrong?

Joseph Smith is wrong because he wrote his prophecies in English?


You're really that delusional that you can't even fathom how someone could question this? I mean it's one thing to believe in fairy tales, but when you can't even understand how someone could question how illogical religion is it becomes comical

 

[tkthafm]

Of course they are wrong... but not for the language they are in, obviously.

How you could imply that from my post leads me to believe you are the delusional one here, or trying to straw-man a bit too hard.


"why are they wrong..."

Because they have no validity/evidence unlike Islam with the Qur'an (which I already explained why it's special/different from any other religious text)

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Again, obviously man is imperfect (who would argue otherwise ?)

Our nature/pursuit of desires can lead to evil and sin. (Which the devil exploits). But we also have free will. The entire point of Islam is to submit to God and strive to worship him, do good deeds and avoid sin. It's a test -> that's his will, to test us. That's our only reason for existence. If we were created without free will or totally "good" or totally "evil" then it would be pointless.
and yes, that's the language God chose. Don't see how that's worth 30 

 

The point is that a perfect god created an imperfect being. God either failed when he created us or he intentionally created us to be this crippled species. On top of that, whichever the case, he is responsible for any evil that we do because, without the creator, we wouldn't be sinful. So you believe that god failed, in one way or another at creating us and is just in punishing us for how he created us? If I sin, it's because that's what I was created to do, so why should I be punished for that?

 

[tkthafm]

Again, why are you ignoring free will ?

Yes, God purposefully created us with the capacity to sin. Doesn't mean we are slaves to our desires. If you choose to sin, you should still be punished because you have free will. You choose your fate.

It's that simple.
(I'm out for now, I'll be back to answer more later)

 

[ill legal operation]

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

The point is that a perfect god created an imperfect being. God either failed when he created us or he intentionally created us to be this crippled species. On top of that, whichever the case, he is responsible for any evil that we do because, without the creator, we wouldn't be sinful. So you believe that god failed, in one way or another at creating us and is just in punishing us for how he created us? If I sin, it's because that's what I was created to do, so why should I be punished for that?


The latter...

...I'm of the belief that we were created by God and given almost unlimited dominion over this earth as the most intellectually advanced species this planet has ever seen. And on top of that, we only use like what, 10% of our brains?

Yet I also believe that we were created with a void that only our Creator could fill - if we could solve every problem, then what's the need for God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit?

Why would I lean on God if I could fix everything the ILL LEGAL OPERATION/JohnnyCage202 way?

I don't believe God failed in creating us at all - I don't care how many specials they run on NatGeo, no other animal on this earth is effin' with us. Three months from now they get a dolphin that can work an iPod? Cool - makes for good conversation and all, but holla at me when Flipper can figure out a way to create one. [DJ Khaled] We the best!! [/DJ Khaled]...

...God is no more responsible for our sins than my parents would be if I so happened to choose to walk outside and shoot three people in the face - that would be something that I explicitly chose to do - that would have no reflection upon my mother and father who took the time to raise me correctly.

Rest assured, God knows exactly how prone to sin we are - that's why He sent His son. Christ weeps for us on the daily because it's like, "Look at 'em - they'll never get it right"...

...Christ is our advocate - think of him as Tom Hagan to Michael Corleone - think of him as the one who could go to God like, "Yo, I know this boy ain't got nuthin' but a pocket fulla Trojans, cigs, and weed...but I know his heart and I know how hard he tries. I know you're disappointed, and you've got every right to be, but chill - lil man is one of us. That's what I died for, remember?" And the wild part about is, Christ is our advocate to God, but God already loves us - like, "you're already my child and I love you, and to show you how much I'll have my actual Son sit here and speak on your behalf."

Does that mean I got carte blanche to just go around drinkin' all day/smokin' all day/anally smashin' random women while 2 Live Crew plays in the background and some 16 year old runaway sniffs coke in the corner waitin' for her turn to ride me? Not at all...

...we were all created into a world of sin, but none of us were created TO sin.

One of those, "I was hood raised in LDP D.C., but I'm not a hood product of LDP D.C." kinda deals.

And mind you, I rep my flag and my flag only - so I'm speaking solely from the perspective of Christianity - I respect everyone's religion, but I won't attempt to explain their's...

...because I don't know it.

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

The point is that a perfect god created an imperfect being. God either failed when he created us or he intentionally created us to be this crippled species. On top of that, whichever the case, he is responsible for any evil that we do because, without the creator, we wouldn't be sinful. So you believe that god failed, in one way or another at creating us and is just in punishing us for how he created us? If I sin, it's because that's what I was created to do, so why should I be punished for that?

The latter...

...I'm of the belief that we were created by God and given almost unlimited dominion over this earth as the most intellectually advanced species this planet has ever seen. And on top of that, we only use like what, 10% of our brains?

Yet I also believe that we were created with a void that only our Creator could fill - if we could solve every problem, then what's the need for God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit?

Why would I lean on God if I could fix everything the ILL LEGAL OPERATION/JohnnyCage202 way?

I don't believe God failed in creating us at all - I don't care how many specials they run on NatGeo, no other animal on this earth is effin' with us. Three months from now they get a dolphin that can work an iPod? Cool - makes for good conversation and all, but holla at me when Flipper can figure out a way to create one. [DJ Khaled] We the best!! [/DJ Khaled]...

...God is no more responsible for our sins than my parents would be if I so happened to choose to walk outside and shoot three people in the face - that would be something that I explicitly chose to do - that would have no reflection upon my mother and father who took the time to raise me correctly.

Rest assured, God knows exactly how prone to sin we are - that's why He sent His son. Christ weeps for us on the daily because it's like, "Look at 'em - they'll never get it right"...

...Christ is our advocate - think of him as Tom Hagan to Michael Corleone - think of him as the one who could go to God like, "Yo, I know this boy ain't got nuthin' but a pocket fulla Trojans, cigs, and weed...but I know his heart and I know how hard he tries. I know you're disappointed, and you've got every right to be, but chill - lil man is one of us. That's what I died for, remember?" And the wild part about is, Christ is our advocate to God, but God already loves us - like, "you're already my child and I love you, and to show you how much I'll have my actual Son sit here and speak on your behalf."

Does that mean I got carte blanche to just go around drinkin' all day/smokin' all day/anally smashin' random women while 2 Live Crew plays in the background and some 16 year old runaway sniffs coke in the corner waitin' for her turn to ride me? Not at all...

...we were all created into a world of sin, but none of us were created TO sin.

One of those, "I was hood raised in LDP D.C., but I'm not a hood product of LDP D.C." kinda deals.

And mind you, I rep my flag and my flag only - so I'm speaking solely from the perspective of Christianity - I respect everyone's religion, but I won't attempt to explain their's...

...because I don't know it.


According to you, God created you without the ability to not sin.  Deductively, that has to mean God created you to sin. And with this inability to not sin, he commands you to worship him your whole life because you sin, BY HIS DESIGN.  He creates imperfect humans..and then punishes them for being imperfect. How is this fair?  
If you designed a robot without the ability to not kill (therefore he has to kill),  would you not be responsible for the robot's killings?

Let me ask you 2 questions (I'm assuming you're a Catholic with the whole Holy Trinity thing):

1.  Is evolution real?

2.  Did the story of Adam and Eve literally happen?  

 

[offbad]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

The point is that a perfect god created an imperfect being. God either failed when he created us or he intentionally created us to be this crippled species. On top of that, whichever the case, he is responsible for any evil that we do because, without the creator, we wouldn't be sinful. So you believe that god failed, in one way or another at creating us and is just in punishing us for how he created us? If I sin, it's because that's what I was created to do, so why should I be punished for that?

we only use like what, 10% of our brains?



nah dude, is that what they teach you in the bible?

 

[|A-Man|]

All this concern for something that's unconfirmed.

 

[ill legal operation]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

According to you, God created you without the ability to not sin.  Deductively, that has to mean God created you to sin. And with this inability to not sin, he commands you to worship him your whole life because you sin, BY HIS DESIGN.  He creates imperfect humans..and then punishes them for being imperfect. How is this fair?  
If you designed a robot without the ability to not kill (therefore he has to kill),  would you not be responsible for the robot's killings?

Let me ask you 2 questions (I'm assuming you're a Catholic with the whole Holy Trinity thing):

1.  Is evolution real?

2.  Did the story of Adam and Eve literally happen?  


I don't know where you got that from my dude...

...if I believed God created us without the ability to sin, you would have been able to quote me on it because that's what I would have typed.

There was a mistake in your deductive reasoning that leaves your underlying conclusion flawed, so I'll make a motion to dismiss everything else you typed because your overall premise of my stance is inherently incorrect.

I will answer your two questions though (from my personal perspective of course, and naw bro - I'm not Catholic):

1) I can't definitively say whether or not evolution is real because I wasn't there, but I can say that scientific findings certainly support the theory that we may have evolved from a prior species - I don't have a gripe with that. As a modern day species we've been given the wisdom and technology to figure out some of our planet's mysteries - I don't dispute the findings of evolution/dinosaurs/or whatever Pinky and The Brain come up with next - I just know that God is the source of it and allows us to piece certain clues together.

2) Literally "Adam and Eve?" Not really - how would you explain who their children procreated with? Most biblical scholars believe that Genesis was written by Moses. Think about that for a second...

...if that's true, then that means that book of the Bible was written by a Jew to explain the creation of the world to other Jews. The Bible wasn't written to explain scientific mysteries or other questions that have mind !%*#*! us since eternity. How do we know how long it took to create the earth if the sun (which we use to tell time) wasn't even created until like the middle of the 7 days? Day 1 through 3 coulda been 5 gazillion years for all we know.

I don't have a concrete answer any more than you, or any other scientist/paleontologist/anthropologist/who ever else...

...I just give God the glory and the credit as the source.


And offbad - miss me with that bull +@%@.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

The point is that a perfect god created an imperfect being. God either failed when he created us or he intentionally created us to be this crippled species. On top of that, whichever the case, he is responsible for any evil that we do because, without the creator, we wouldn't be sinful. So you believe that god failed, in one way or another at creating us and is just in punishing us for how he created us? If I sin, it's because that's what I was created to do, so why should I be punished for that?

...God is no more responsible for our sins than my parents would be if I so happened to choose to walk outside and shoot three people in the face - that would be something that I explicitly chose to do - that would have no reflection upon my mother and father who took the time to raise me correctly.

This is the only point I feel I need to address. God created us. We are sinful. The logical conclusion is that god created us to be sinful. We cannot acquire our characteristics anywhere else other than god because he is the creator of everything. Also, comparing god to your biological parents isn't accurate considering your parents aren't responsible for you, the world around you, and everything that goes on in it. Sin has to come from god because everything comes from god. 

 

[offbad]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

According to you, God created you without the ability to not sin.  Deductively, that has to mean God created you to sin. And with this inability to not sin, he commands you to worship him your whole life because you sin, BY HIS DESIGN.  He creates imperfect humans..and then punishes them for being imperfect. How is this fair?  
If you designed a robot without the ability to not kill (therefore he has to kill),  would you not be responsible for the robot's killings?

Let me ask you 2 questions (I'm assuming you're a Catholic with the whole Holy Trinity thing):

1.  Is evolution real?

2.  Did the story of Adam and Eve literally happen?  

And offbad - miss me with that bull +@%@.



lolwut?

u mad 'cause you only usin 10% of your brain?

don't be jelly that it's been a verified fact that humans use almost almost every part of the brain, and that most of the brain is active all the time.

 

[teamjordan79]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Because they have no validity/evidence unlike Islam with the Qur'an (which I already explained why it's special/different from any other religious text)

Subjectivity.