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Yeah, a guy like Nerlens Noel sure wasn't harmed by being forced to go to college.
someone PLEASE explain to me how making potential NBA players stay in college is a good thing
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by fontaine,
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So we are going to use the occasional freak accident as the norm as to why great high school basketball players would be harmed by going to college?
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You said this
That's in addition to this point
The answer is yes, they certainly could.
That's in addition to this point
What on Earth did a guy like Wiggins "develop" in his year at Kansas that he wouldn't have developed in the league?
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Some of the responses and reasoning in this thread is hilarious.
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Explain.
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Well that was Wiggins mistake for going to Kansas instead of Wichita St or FSU. He put himself if a tough situation and wasn't able to truly showcase all of his talents.
The guy on KU that "developed" and made himself a top 3 pick by going to college was Embiid.
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A guy like Embiid can still have that option if he wants it, there's no rule saying he's not allowed to go to college.
Doesn't explain why Wiggins had to waste his time for a year.
Doesn't explain why Wiggins had to waste his time for a year.
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A guy like Embiid can still have that option if he wants it, there's no rule saying he's not allowed to go to college.
Doesn't explain why Wiggins had to waste his time for a year.
He's still a top 3 pick and going to college for a year didn't hurt his stock, maybe exposed his flaws a little bit, but that's about it.
I get the point you're trying to make though.
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I mean this is hilarious, you think LeBron should've been forced to give up 1 or 2 years' salary while risking injury, playing for free while making the NCAA millions, and not developing to the same extent as he did in the league, at a time when he was good enough to average 27-7-7 in the NBA. How does this make sense?
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@Fontaine, you get better and more confident from playing competition closer to your level. If he attempts to do these things vs. people that are easily better than him then his confidence is shot. That is the biggest reason why players don't develop post games in the NBA. If you don't have some semblance of a post game before the NBA, it is HARD to do it against people in the NBA. You make that happen before you get there.
Case in point, Dwight Howard. Dwight is someone that could have greatly benefitted from being the best bigman on the court getting fed the ball in back to the basket situations. His post game would have developed at a higher rate than it would if he was facing people like Jason Collins on an every day basis.
Case in point, Dwight Howard. Dwight is someone that could have greatly benefitted from being the best bigman on the court getting fed the ball in back to the basket situations. His post game would have developed at a higher rate than it would if he was facing people like Jason Collins on an every day basis.
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I agree, ALL basketball rules need to be universal. High school kids should be playing with a shot clock as well. It can be 30 for them and 24 for the college game. TImed decision making is a skill that needs to be developed earlier in basketball player's progression.
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Exactly.
Speaking of Dwight, he has had Ewing, Hakeem, and McHale teaching/coaching him on offensive post and back to the basket moves .. he still can't grasp the offensive fundamentals
.. 10 years b, 10 years in the NBA and he still doesn't have a go to post move on the offensive end :x Agreed, definitely needs to be universal. Isn't the women's basketball shot clock 30 secs?
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At what point does everyone realize that Dwight was meant to be a defensive anchor and not a shaq clone?
Do you think he would have developed a post game playing against zone defenses in college? Let's be real out here
Do you think he would have developed a post game playing against zone defenses in college? Let's be real out here
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Get out of here maaan.
why would posting up against 6'9 non athletes make him a better post player? He would bully them, no post moves required.
NEVRMIND the fact that healthy Dwight was a very good post player, very effective and efficient, so he he seems to have figure it out without the help of playing against a 6'7 from the WAC who's team plays some gimmick 1-3-1 half the time without getting payed.
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Get out of here maaan.
why would posting up against 6'9 non athletes make him a better post player? He would bully them, no post moves required.
NEVRMIND the fact that healthy Dwight was a very good post player, very effective and efficient, so he he seems to have figure it out without the help of playing against a 6'7 from the WAC who's team plays some gimmick 1-3-1 half the time without getting payed.
Why exactly are we making the assumption people he will be facing in college are all going to be 6'9 non athletes?
Yes, the majority are NOT NBA talent, but they are still talented players with some level of skill. Whether they end up in the D-League or Overseas, it builds confidence to be successful. And success won't be gained against people that are better than you if you have an undeveloped skill.
It is really simple math Bosh.
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I'm all for 2 years in college.
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Well quite frankly, I don't believe in the whole, "So and so was meant to be" logic. That is the fixed mindset. I believe in the growth mindset and if Dwight would have had the correct structure, placement, and level of success at an earlier level, he could have been at a higher level now than he currently is. (Post game wise).
But NOW, because of his past, I believe Dwight is nothing more than a glorified rebounder and shot blocker that can give you 18 PPG, but that isn't because he was MEANT TO BE that. It is because his environments shaped him to be that.
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And what you are also forgetting is that if he was being coached by great coaches, he would have a list of moves that he would be using in a game setting. Yes he might eventually revert back to "bully ball" back that more so happens in high school. If he had coaching that pushed him into the right direction vs. colleged sized post players, he could have gained the proper confidence to be a better post player when he is at the next level. It is how player development works.
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Dwight has never showed the fluidity nor the touch around the basket like the elite offensive centers of the past.
I also find it hard to believe his perceived lack of a post game is because he wasn't force fed the ball. Like said earlier, two of the most skilled post players in the league have 1 year combined of college.
I also find it hard to believe his perceived lack of a post game is because he wasn't force fed the ball. Like said earlier, two of the most skilled post players in the league have 1 year combined of college.
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Why is an athlete's salary which he would be giving up, such a big thing for you? Why does it matter? We are having a discussion of the merits of making players go to college, and all you and others have come up with is "well he would be missing out on ____ dollars."
To me, that is not the main focus of this discussion. It seems to be with you, and it seems to be with a few others. What I am interested in, is making the college game better, and making the pro game better.
Requiring players to play 2 years in college will make the college game exponentially better. This shouldnt even warrant a discussion.
Requiring players to play 2 years in college will make AT WORST, make no difference in the college game. Some would argue it would make the NBA game better....which I dont necessarily agree with. But it certainly wouldnt make the NBA game worse.
So going back to my point, an age requirement would make college better and at worst make the NBA no different than it is now.
Yet, you and others are against it because it hurts the athletes wallets. Its just astonishing to me that you guys would choose making these guys richer, over enhancing the college game.
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You are missing the bigger picture. I am suggesting that we look at his entire history.
From his HS days where he was clearly the most athletic player whenever he stepped foot on the court.
From his missing out on the chance to develop that touch that he lacks.
From him being the most athletic player whenever he stepped on the court, which he used as a crutch, once he got to the NBA.
All of these situations have one thing in common. He was not FORCED to be a featured player as a predominate back to the basket player.
This is what he could have gotten if he went to college.
My main point is you don't develop when everyone is on your same level and/or better than you. You build confidence through success, and when you are lacking fundementals, your success HAS to come from inferior competition.
Does a struggling math student become a better student by doing work above grade level or do you differentiate the work so that he or she can find success on grade level or work slightly below grade level? COnfidence is the most important things here man. COnfidence comes from success.
But we will go in circles about this topic. Good discussion nonetheless.
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Who are these great coaches in college teaching players post moves, Dwight has had Ewing, McHale, Hakeem at his disposal while in the nba
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Even If I were to accept the quality of the coaching (I don't its mostly poor)
I'm telling you that they aren't, their incentives are to win ON THE COLLEGE LEVEL, not develop players for the NBA.
What purpose,would teaching him post moves that he has no reason to use, why would they do that?
they want him him to be the best college player that he can be. period.
If this weren't the case and teams cared about development, they would run NBA offenses, not micro manage every possession, stop with the gimmick defenses. but they don't because they pay lip service to the idea of development.
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its entirely about money.
for the NBA
-they get to play older players in their prime years the rookie scale. the best players wouldn't get to unrestricted free agency until with most of their prime years exhausted.
-they get free marketing for future stars
for college
-they get to continue their oppressive, morally repugnant exploitation of athletes.
nothing about this is "development"
for the NBA
-they get to play older players in their prime years the rookie scale. the best players wouldn't get to unrestricted free agency until with most of their prime years exhausted.
-they get free marketing for future stars
for college
-they get to continue their oppressive, morally repugnant exploitation of athletes.
nothing about this is "development"
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