offset pow clow
Banned
- 5,567
- 1,209
- Joined
- May 24, 2014
So hes not a real artist because he came out with satire music during the "gangsta rap" era
Spin Off (Jay-Z vs Nas Thread): Is Eminem Good Because He's White?
- Thread in 'Music' Thread starter Started by john hancock,
- Start date
john hancock
Banned
- 924
- 563
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
If you pay attention to his video, all those guys chanting around him are local rappers from Detroit that are affiliated with Shady Record's camp and fan base.
Sad part is they're all veterans too, but Shady records never signed ANY of them, or put out albums for them. Why? Because Eminem would lose his appeal if people discovered that Detroit basically has two Hip-Hop crowds, dopeboys and gangstas, THEN the "creative" **** like Eminem and D12; white boys are a "staple" in the later. (See Dej Loaf's "Try Me", there's NO white boys in that video, because it's the REAL HOOD)
Paul Rosenberg knew that, he couldn't broker deals for Royce and the rest of that "creative" collective like he could for Eminem, Rosenberg is white. Proof was Eminem's mentor basically, teaching him how to maneuver though Detroit's racially charged environment where whites DARE NOT EXPLORE Proof was murdered...Rosenberg never went hard for D12 the way he went hard for Eminem, even when they were a "group".... Rosenberg currently manages Action Bronson .
Last edited:
- 23,400
- 10,203
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2011
Extremely talented rapper who can release subpar albums and get away with it because of his skin color. Basically he's good because he's good...he's successful because he's white while being good.
tony plush
Banned
- 468
- 464
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2014
How does Eminem's race make him good?
Music is subjective. What one person may consider as good, another might disagree.
Album sales and accolades does not make an artist good but they are general indicators of an artist's popularity.
Does Em's race have an influence on his popularity? Sure... but that has nothing to do with the quality of his music.
Also, who decides what rappers belong on the "mantel" of hip-hop and why are Biggie and 2Pac on there?
- 36,045
- 12,024
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2012
so if he pretended that he sold drugs and pretended like he actually kills people you would like him more?
i dont even like macklemore, but he only made that song because he wanted more gay fans? not because he actually cares and used his fame as a platform to speak up on the issue? actually standing up for gay equality means he doesnt care about rap culture?
eminem and macklemore are not the reasons hip hop culture is "dying so rapidly"
- 846
- 1,192
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2013
I think I'm starting to see a correlation between Nt'ers saying Jay > Nas because his songs are played in the club more, Jay has more money and Ether sucks because Ron Brownz produced it, are saying Eminem is relevant because he is white.
Check it out. If you put Biggie, Tupac, Em, Nas, Pun, and Jay on a stage and told them to come up with a concept in 10 mins, who is coming out of there with a L in a landslide? Think of what the original origins of hip hop are, and which one in that group doesn't have the necessary skill set to do that.
Check it out. If you put Biggie, Tupac, Em, Nas, Pun, and Jay on a stage and told them to come up with a concept in 10 mins, who is coming out of there with a L in a landslide? Think of what the original origins of hip hop are, and which one in that group doesn't have the necessary skill set to do that.
john hancock
Banned
- 924
- 563
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
How does his race make him good? That's what I'm asking.
Again you're kind of contradicting yourself, but you're right about music, it is SUBJECTIVE ( influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions).
In fact, as I stated a study showed 75% of whites and Asians, and 50% of blacks have a negative unconscious opinion of blacks. Meaning they have to make a conscious CHOICE to be open-mined and "nice" to blacks. Moreover, Wallstreet Journal reported that up to 80% of hip-hop is purchased by WHITES.
We can agree that Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine put A LOT of financial backing into Eminem. I'm not sure if you understand how the music industry works:
- It starts with the artist, he puts his music out there creating a demand for more. This is the purpose of a "single" or "EP" (replaced by mixtapes).
- Then it's his manager's job to make sure he's financially profiting from the music he's supplying. This is the purpose of bidding.
Once he's signed to a MAJOR LABEL, they set aside part of his budget for PROMOTION. A good manager, has a strong relationship with the media; magazines, blogs, television producers, and agents. If the rapper is "marketable" then they take a gamble on them and carefully spend the budget for his promo.
- The desired outcome would be the artist creating a trickle down effect where they'd dominate the media through demand for more. Companies made profit by endorsing the artist or pay for their star power to amplify the reach of their brand.
- Throughout this process marketing departments of different companies are looking to invest in the artist while they're relevant.
Who created the demand for a white rapper, especially one that openly discusses his advantages of being white? While 80% of whites buy hip-hop 80% of whites are also "liberal" and claim "they don't see color". If that's true how can liberals recognize the articulation of urban plight expressed by Nas and Biggie, YET place Eminem on that same mantle in publications, musical achievement awards, and album sales? Especially when at that point in his career (1999) he was known as a "goofball" from the Slim Shady LP. Further more, when he stated that "the mood all changed", he still didn't have to endure the same obstacles as Nas and Biggie to arrive at that point in Hip-Hop. Keep in mind studio recording was A LOT MORE expensive than it is now. How do you think Nas and Biggie paid for demos?
How can writers illustrate the countless articles of the violence, death and negativity, artist like Pac, Nas or Big endured which earned them awards and popularity, yet sit someone like Eminem in the same category, when he state himself he was only about drugs, unsafe sex and picking on the privileged white teeny boppers and their public figures?
The greats of Hip-Hop were determined by magazines like "The Source" written by people who were RESPECTED by the Hip-Hop community. The Source was like Facebook, they provided a service that served as an ambassador between suburban whites with disposable income and urban minorities with no voice or representation. Benzino and Dave Mays had heads of multi-million dollar corporations kissing their ***** and listening to what they had to say. Far from the pandering and manufactured "organics" of Complex Media, Pitchfork and Fader.
Eminem & Co had no problem with "The Source" until they called him out on his race contributing to his success. And they retaliated with a smear campaign of the Source, a magazine that introduced us to COUNTLESS RAPPERS, PRODUCERS and BLACK ENTREPRENUERS. Even after the Source issued a recording on Eminem using the N-word in studio session they called the "rap racist hour". He still gained MORE supporters while the Source suffered in sales. Was it really necessary to attack a PUBLICATION because they called you out? Why didn't he attack the countless outlets and THEIR journalist for the things they've stated about him? Why just the Source?
Last edited:
- 54,394
- 143,505
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
Em is good because he's good.
Em sells because he's white. Simple. He has more Grammys, more sales, more #1s than any other Hip Hop artist ever. There are white people who absolutely hate hip hop music...but Love eminem.
I've been to diners, restaurants, even Bill Batemans here that don't even have Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder or MJ Posters.
Somehow...Eminnem has a poster though.
He said himself if he was black he'd sell half...if he diid that..he wouldn't be in the goat discussions.
Point is em was an amazing artist that peaked around 04. He's been terrible since then.
Em sells because he's white. Simple. He has more Grammys, more sales, more #1s than any other Hip Hop artist ever. There are white people who absolutely hate hip hop music...but Love eminem.
I've been to diners, restaurants, even Bill Batemans here that don't even have Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder or MJ Posters.
Somehow...Eminnem has a poster though.
He said himself if he was black he'd sell half...if he diid that..he wouldn't be in the goat discussions.
Point is em was an amazing artist that peaked around 04. He's been terrible since then.
Last edited:
- 60,034
- 50,946
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
This is easily the worst post in here.
Comparing Eminem to Macklemore is offensive. People forget how raw and uncut Eminem was. Macklemore is nothing like that. You definitely can't say Eminem doesn't care about the culture. He was broke, homeless and battling. All his friends and peers were black. Macklemore can't even rap, his music is sorry.
nawghtyhare
it's cool you don't **** with him because he's white. I don't like white rappers. I couldn't stand Eminem when he came out. Thought he was a joke. One day I was at a friend's house and the only CD he had in the room was MMLP. Sat there and was forced to listen to it. I was blown away by his skill. Couldn't believe a white guy could rhyme like this and tell stories the way he did. Next day, I bought MMLP. A few weeks later I bought SSLP.I can't stand where rap is going and I barely listen to new rap. The fact that Drake, Nicki and Lil Wayne are running rap, tells you everything you need to know about the culture and where it's going. Rick Ross still putting out albums and he doesn't sell well at all. It's all manufactured. Jews pick who they want to run **** and they make their deals. You do what they say and they will continue to put you out in front of everyone else.
Migos, Bobby Shmurda, Drake, Rick Ross and Meek Mill are much worse for the culture than Eminem back in 98.
- 54,394
- 143,505
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
This is easily the worst post in here.
Comparing Eminem to Macklemore is offensive. People forget how raw and uncut Eminem was. Macklemore is nothing like that. You definitely can't say Eminem doesn't care about the culture. He was broke, homeless and battling. All his friends and peers were black. Macklemore can't even rap, his music is sorry.
I can't stand where rap is going and I barely listen to new rap. The fact that Drake, Nicki and Lil Wayne are running rap, tells you everything you need to know about the culture and where it's going. Rick Ross still putting out albums and he doesn't sell well at all. It's all manufactured. Jews pick who they want to run **** and they make their deals. You do what they say and they will continue to put you out in front of everyone else.
Migos, Bobby Shmurda, Drake, Rick Ross and Meek Mill are much worse for the culture than Eminem back in 98.
Eminem now is comparable to Mclemore. Back then no. Dude was raw and creative. Now he's a top 40 guy making "anthems" w/ Rihanna.
You all do have to admit that accolades and sales play a part in who we consider the best rappers.
Em has the lions share of those Accolades while not deserving them for the subpar albums he's put out since like 05.
john hancock
Banned
- 924
- 563
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- 36,045
- 12,024
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2012
i cant really speak on macle since i dont listen to his music but eminem's recent albums are some of the most rap/lyrically heavy albums out right now
i would say one of the reasons people dont like his new stuff as much as his old stuff is he puts so much effort into the complexity of his lyrics
he hardly has any pop songs in his latest album, and when he does its not like hes throwing out lazy verses
- 106,577
- 78,219
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
Basically my sentiments. Throw in The Re-Up, Devil's Night, 8Mile soundtrack and most of Hell The Sequel, you one of my favorite most skilled rappers. I don't even recognize the Eminem that uses accents, whines, makes music with the very people he'd diss 10+ years ago, and raps over mediocre beats.
I'm sure I've said this in many Em/Jay threads, but Jay's verse wasn't bad at all, it was the fact that he had ample time to Em's since his was already recorded, yet still wasn't nearly as comparable to Em's. It also didn't help that Royce's original verses on the sound were better than Jay's.
Last edited:
tony plush
Banned
- 468
- 464
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2014
You're quoting statistics and studies that are irrelevant to the discussion.
Your outline on how the industry works is irrelevant to the discussion.
No one created the demand for a white rapper. That doesn't make any sense.
There was a demand for Em and his music because people were intrigued with his gimmick.
Just because Eminem's content isn't similar to Nas' or Biggie's, that doesn't mean that he can't sit next to them on the "mantel" of hip-hop.
And he attacked XXL on MMLP
"And then to top it off, I walked to the newsstand
To buy this cheap *** little magazine with a food stamp
Skipped to the last page, flipped right fast
And what do I see? A picture of my big white ***
Okay, let me give you **********s some help
Um here, XXL! XXL!
Now your magazine shouldn't have so much trouble to sell
Ahh **** it, I'll even buy a couple myself"
(XXL re-rated MMLP in 2007 and gave it a perfect score (XXL) lol)
But to answer your question, Eminem's race does not make him good. He's good because he's talented.
Answer my question tho...
Who decides what rappers belong on the "mantel" of hip-hop?
Last edited:
- 63,610
- 50,738
- Joined
- May 23, 2005
Nas big and PAC have 0 Grammys between them but are legends and have made timeless musicThis is easily the worst post in here.
Comparing Eminem to Macklemore is offensive. People forget how raw and uncut Eminem was. Macklemore is nothing like that. You definitely can't say Eminem doesn't care about the culture. He was broke, homeless and battling. All his friends and peers were black. Macklemore can't even rap, his music is sorry.
I can't stand where rap is going and I barely listen to new rap. The fact that Drake, Nicki and Lil Wayne are running rap, tells you everything you need to know about the culture and where it's going. Rick Ross still putting out albums and he doesn't sell well at all. It's all manufactured. Jews pick who they want to run **** and they make their deals. You do what they say and they will continue to put you out in front of everyone else.
Migos, Bobby Shmurda, Drake, Rick Ross and Meek Mill are much worse for the culture than Eminem back in 98.
Eminem now is comparable to Mclemore. Back then no. Dude was raw and creative. Now he's a top 40 guy making "anthems" w/ Rihanna.
You all do have to admit that accolades and sales play a part in who we consider the best rappers.
Em has the lions share of those Accolades while not deserving them for the subpar albums he's put out since like 05.
Sales are not a indicator of who we or at least who I consider a legend
john hancock
Banned
- 924
- 563
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
...and this guy wanna debate about Hip-Hop, you pretty much ether'd yourself for all of Niketalk to see
Last edited:
aNYone
Supporter
- 28,495
- 33,249
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2012
Yea i dont think em has ever lost in the RAOTY category
He's basically a shoe in
Knowing that Nas and Snoop dogg have 0 shows how worthless they actually are
Em Kanye and Jay basically hoard them all
tony plush
Banned
- 468
- 464
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2014
john hancock
What was the point of your outline about the workings of the music industry?
Why did you quote those studies and statistics?
We're discussing Eminem and what makes him "good" and those aspects of your previous post were completely irrelevant.
[Bhris Brown]I'm done.[/Bhris Brown]
Last edited:
john hancock
Banned
- 924
- 563
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
Dre sneaked Eminem into the mix after he failed with the Firm because New York felt some type of way about the West Coast... the vibe was sort of like New Yorkers when they see any type of Middle-Eastern person resembling a terrorist chillin' around the new World Trade Center or the airport. Dre had no choice but to keep it moving on the West, and the West wasn't messin' with Dre because he had too many beefs with everybody on the West (Pac, Eazy, Snoop, even Cube).
Dre has been known to be ran off the set and come back with a new artist to wedge him back into Hip-Hop.
As I stated before 80% of whites are the purchasers of Hip-Hop and sales were declining in hardcore rap due to the loss of Pac and Biggie, 1998-1999 was full of rappers puttin' out bling era joints and singing to the women (check the charts). Diddy was singing and dancing, had the Lox in metallic suits. Dre seized the opportunity of the slow market and injected Eminem during MTV's most influential years.
Before that there was a clear line whites in Hip-Hop knew not to cross and get too comfortable, if they tried they were extorted or beat the **** up and kept that **** on the outskirts of Hip-Hop. Or they were ****** with from a distance. If they crossed that line and tried to appropriate Hip-Hop back then somebody was SEEING THEM, either at the radio station or at their performances.
This is the reason I think Eminem worked so well, and he admits it on "Rap God". At that time so much was going in political correctness, homosexual Matthew Sheppard was killed, Columbine shooting, and the film "Boys Don't Cry" resurfacing the murder of Brandon Teena; Eminem used his white American "rebellion" as a way to spark controversy. "Made a killing off it, since Clinton was in office...I was under Aftermath after the fact"....but that wasn't the first time he's admitted to exploiting the fact he was white he could get away with more. The Slim Shady LP, and Eminem was Dre's way of going after that 80% ...which he used to pave the way to drop Chronic 2001 for his manufactured comeback.
Ice Cube previously addressed how Dre works the industry and NEVER earned his "comeback" on I Am The West:
“I ain’t the doctor/ This ain’t the patient/ This ain’t that ***** always on vacation/ This ain’t no white boy’s rehabilitation/ This is crazier then a boat full of Haitians.”
Dre has been known to be ran off the set and come back with a new artist to wedge him back into Hip-Hop.
As I stated before 80% of whites are the purchasers of Hip-Hop and sales were declining in hardcore rap due to the loss of Pac and Biggie, 1998-1999 was full of rappers puttin' out bling era joints and singing to the women (check the charts). Diddy was singing and dancing, had the Lox in metallic suits. Dre seized the opportunity of the slow market and injected Eminem during MTV's most influential years.
Before that there was a clear line whites in Hip-Hop knew not to cross and get too comfortable, if they tried they were extorted or beat the **** up and kept that **** on the outskirts of Hip-Hop. Or they were ****** with from a distance. If they crossed that line and tried to appropriate Hip-Hop back then somebody was SEEING THEM, either at the radio station or at their performances.
This is the reason I think Eminem worked so well, and he admits it on "Rap God". At that time so much was going in political correctness, homosexual Matthew Sheppard was killed, Columbine shooting, and the film "Boys Don't Cry" resurfacing the murder of Brandon Teena; Eminem used his white American "rebellion" as a way to spark controversy. "Made a killing off it, since Clinton was in office...I was under Aftermath after the fact"....but that wasn't the first time he's admitted to exploiting the fact he was white he could get away with more. The Slim Shady LP, and Eminem was Dre's way of going after that 80% ...which he used to pave the way to drop Chronic 2001 for his manufactured comeback.
Ice Cube previously addressed how Dre works the industry and NEVER earned his "comeback" on I Am The West:
“I ain’t the doctor/ This ain’t the patient/ This ain’t that ***** always on vacation/ This ain’t no white boy’s rehabilitation/ This is crazier then a boat full of Haitians.”
Last edited:
6 Rings G.O.A.T.
Supporter
- 133,411
- 111,529
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
No..but he did sell a lot of albums off of that.. He'll admit that..
- 60,034
- 50,946
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
I've heard Em's new albums but it's not something I would buy or throw on. It's still lyrical, he's still rhyming his *** off. I just can't get with his new flow. The lyrics are there though. His cyphers and last two albums are better than what Macklemore could dream of. It's still lyrically better than all of today's gold and platinum selling "rappers"
aNYone
Supporter
- 28,495
- 33,249
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2012
He will always flourish off his gift for technicallity
but the content is not that amazing. Hes not doing the crazy blond hair thing
or the dimented drug user thing anymore
john hancock
Banned
- 924
- 563
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
...and I'll leave this right here, for those who think Slim Shady LP was his first album, especially since it was no mention of it after three pages
.
...said it himself, he got his flow from AZ and Nas. He sounds NOTHING like the "Shady" you hear after he signed to Interscope. He actually sounds like a talented brother who has something to say on this joint. How do you go from being 24 years old sounding like a grown *** man with something to say, to being 27 years old and sounding like a college freshman and degenerate?
I believe he switched up for the paper, and hated that he was put in that box, that's why he lashed out a Top 40 entertainers and bands...he also states this on Rap God:
"...when you combine appeal with the skin color of mine"
While I'm ripping any one of these verses diverse as you/
It's curtains, I'm inadvertently hurtin' you/
How many verses I gotta murder to/
Prove that if you're half as nice at songs you can sacrifice virgins too/
...said it himself, he got his flow from AZ and Nas. He sounds NOTHING like the "Shady" you hear after he signed to Interscope. He actually sounds like a talented brother who has something to say on this joint. How do you go from being 24 years old sounding like a grown *** man with something to say, to being 27 years old and sounding like a college freshman and degenerate?
I believe he switched up for the paper, and hated that he was put in that box, that's why he lashed out a Top 40 entertainers and bands...he also states this on Rap God:
"...when you combine appeal with the skin color of mine"
While I'm ripping any one of these verses diverse as you/
It's curtains, I'm inadvertently hurtin' you/
How many verses I gotta murder to/
Prove that if you're half as nice at songs you can sacrifice virgins too/
- 8,178
- 18,033
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
