Supreme Court Set To Decide Future of Affirmative Action

Do we still need policies providing preferential treatment to some racial groups over others in order to ensure equal access to education?

  • Hell yes. Racism is alive and well in academia.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nope. Doesn't matter what you look like, qualifications should be the only factor for admission.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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[h1]Is Supreme Court set to end use of race in admissions?[/h1]
By Terry Baynes

Tue Oct 9, 2012 1:11am EDT

(Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday is set to hear arguments on whether colleges and universities can continue to favor minority candidates in admissions policies. Given that the court in 2003 approved such policies, its decision to take up the issue again suggests it may be looking to cut back on affirmative action.

The case before the court was brought by Abigail Fisher, a white woman who says the University of Texas denied her admission because of her race, in violation of the U.S. Constitution's equal protection guarantee. The university says it must consider race as a factor in admissions, or minorities will be underrepresented on its campuses.

Several factors are tipping the scales against affirmative action this time around: For starters, the makeup of the court has become more conservative in the past nine years. Seven states have banned affirmative action, while polls show the U.S. public has grown increasingly opposed to racial preferences.

The court often takes up cases to resolve conflicts between two or more federal appeals courts - but no such conflict exists here, which could mean the court is looking to reexamine its own precedent. In agreeing to hear the case, the justices brushed off an argument by the University of Texas that the court need not take up the matter, since Fisher has already graduated from another school.

One likely supporter of affirmative action, Justice Elena Kagan, has recused herself. She gave no reason, but it is likely she decided to step aside because she worked on the case in her previous job as U.S. Solicitor General.

That leaves eight justices to hear the case. Four conservatives, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, are expected to reject the University of Texas program. The fifth conservative, Anthony Kennedy, is often thought of as a swing vote. He has voted with the conservative wing on this issue in the past but has also acknowledged a need for racial diversity on campuses. A 4-4 tie would affirm the lower court, which rejected Fisher's challenge.

A broad ruling by the court could wipe out affirmative action programs in the 43 state school systems that still allow racial preferences, as well as those at thousands of private colleges and universities. The court could also rule narrowly and disallow only the Texas program, or it could approve the Texas approach.

Full Article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/09/us-usa-court-race-idUSBRE89805020121009

___

What do you guys think?
 
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Hmmm P4L I'll have to do some reading outside of this article.
 
As much as the white majority hates Affirmative Action especially in academia (they blame diversity on decline in rank among others), it is a necessary evil. The numbers of minorities at universities are already slim. While I was at Syracuse, blacks were about 8% of the student population, but numbers are easy to doctor as it was way less than that. Women (white women are the real winner in AA) , who also fall under AA, will be under attack next if this somehow passes.
 
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A little more data to inform your opinions...

2010 United States Census Data:
[table][tr][td]
Race / Ethnicity
[/td][td]
Number
[/td][td]
Percentage of
U.S. population

[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Americans
[/td][td]
308,745,538
[/td][td]
100.0 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
White or European American
[/td][td]
223,553,265
[/td][td]
72.4 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Black or African American
[/td][td]
38,929,319
[/td][td]
12.6 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Asian
[/td][td]
14,674,252
[/td][td]
4.8 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
American Indian or Alaska Native
[/td][td]
2,932,248
[/td][td]
0.9 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander
[/td][td]
540,013
[/td][td]
0.2 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Some other race
[/td][td]
19,107,368
[/td][td]
6.2 %
[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Two or more races
[/td][td]
9,009,073
[/td][td]
2.9 %
[/td][/tr][/table]
Source: http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf
 
Thing is...we're going to have to realize that black students just aren't performing for some reason or another. Either we try and overcome this with legislation or we inspire these underperforming communities to get their **** together.

I don't know man. I think Elena Kagan kinda missed her chance to have a say so in this. Its a complex issue and over time, I see the argument that "whites" have and I understand where they're coming from.

The Latino population is certainly increasing. The black and native american percentages have stayed the same and in some places decreased for decades. 
As much as the white majority hates Affirmative Action especially in academia (they blame diversity on decline in rank among others), it is a necessary evil. The numbers of minorities at universities are already slim. While I was at Syracuse, blacks were about 8% of the student population, but numbers are easy to doctor as it was way less than that. Women (white women are the real winner in AA) , who also fall under AA, will be under attack next if this somehow passes.
Hell yeah. I saw the minority enrollment numbers at my school because we used to send out targeted emails and what not, and there were TONS of asian names on the list. 

People are certainly gaming the system. 

Its cases like this that make me thankful I'm not a judge. "Difficult" isn't even the word to describe this. 
mean.gif
 
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I say let it rock for another 20 years. Then call it quits.

New policy casting a wider net would also be appreciated.
 
AA is such a complex issue and taking it away may not directly hurt the people it was intended for but rather the people who benefit from it most;Non African Americans and women.

Truth be told,theres a large population ignorant americans who seem to think AA hurts them or hurts there chances of achieving the american dream.But what most fail to realize is that not every American is going to become that successful lawyer,doctor or investment banker.The way things are structured someone has to be the garbage man,construction-worker or bus driver.Again some of these same people who also complain about AA also complain about foreign students coming to the states out performing them their children academicaly.

I say keep it the way it is or unless they plan on providing something better to make sure everyone in this country has a fair chance;It's 2012 some things has changed but not to the point where things that were set in place to promote equality should be erased;Today Schools are more segregated then they were when segregation was legal.
 
Don't do it.

In other fields, besides academics, for example construction, AA is definitely needed.
 
It's a moot point to argue if she already graduated from another university.

In my opinion, affirmative action in academia is still sort of necessary. There are those minority students who do have their "**** together" and I don't think they should be penalized.

When it comes to admissions, the type of education these individuals receive isn't uniform. Huge disparities exist in this country in terms of the quality of the education the youth receive. That affects test scores, which inevitably affects admissions. There has to be some sort of leveling of the playing field. Does affirmative action do achieve this? No. Of course not. But until the US education system can achieve genuine uniformity across the board, something has to be in place for minority students to at least have a chance.

It's a slippery slope.
 
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If this passes smh. The only faces of color you'll come across on a college campus are those of athletes. Its not a problem for us to be in the classroom when we're suiting up and bringing additional prestige to universities through our athletic exploits.
 
Hey man...Barack is in office. 

Black people, in the eyes of the majority at least, don't have an excuse any more.

Just throwing that out there. 
In some ways, that's the crux of the whole issue. Are we as a society past the historical injustices perpetrated against Blacks and the long-ranging effects of institutionalized bigotry? Slavery may have ended in 1863 but the Civil Rights Act wasn't passed until 101 years later. The election of our first non-white president definitely says something but what about the way wider American society still views interracial marriage? What about the ghettoization of communities where Blacks cluster in every major American metropolitain area? Inequality still exists across the board, even if outright racism is virtually nonexistent. 

And how do we explain the insane disproportionality in arrests of Blacks for just about every kind of violent crime? I would argue that there is an inverse relationship between level of education and likelihood to commit a violent crime, so what do these stats say?

African American Population: 12.6%

(Source: http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf)

Percentage of Arrests by Race

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter - Blacks: 48.7%

Robbery - Blacks: 55.0%

Prostitution and commercialized vice - Blacks: 42.4%

(Source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43/10tbl43a.xls)

The only 2 crimes in the FBI data for which Black's are not arrested in greater proportion to their population are DUI (11.5%) and Liqour Laws (12.0%).

Consider also births of children to unmarried mothers. Raising a child alone can obviously be a major obstacle to continuing an education or advancing a career. While 41% of births across all races are to unmarried mothers, 72.8% of black children are born to single moms (Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_01_tables.pdf)

And of course, the elephant in the room, to what extent are Blacks themselves to blame?

Lack of access to education is a root cause of many more issues than simply income disparity and all of these factors should, and I'm sure will, be considered by the Supreme Court tomorrow.
 
[SIZE=12pt]A little more data to inform your opinions...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]2010 United States Census Data:[/SIZE]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Race / Ethnicity[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Number[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Percentage of

U.S. population[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Americans[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]308,745,538[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]100.0 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]White or European American[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]223,553,265[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]72.4 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Black or African American[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]38,929,319[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]12.6 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Asian[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]14,674,252[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]4.8 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]American Indian or Alaska Native[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]2,932,248[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]0.9 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]540,013[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]0.2 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Some other race[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]19,107,368[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]6.2 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]Two or more races[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]9,009,073[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[TD]
[SIZE=12pt]2.9 %[/SIZE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[SIZE=12pt]Source: http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf[/SIZE]

Can't use those census number, you're ommitting the biggest minority in America... Hispanics/Latino's. In 2010 most filled out "White/American"...:lol: :lol:

So yeah, **** yo stats!
 
This is gonna open a whole new can of worms if they overturn this.....apparently UT-Austin has a guaranteed admission for the top 10% of HS kids in their respective classes.....Abby Fisher wasn't even in the 90th percentile. Then you have admission of 46 white students who had lower grades than Abby Fisher. Her SATs were below the average for that class, and UT denied 160 something black students admisison, who had better grades than her...sounds like shes salty

Fisher’s Grades
Abigail Fisher’s grades are also likely to be scrutinized. In a brief filed by UT Austin, the school notes Fisher had a cumulative GPA of 3.59 and an SAT score of 1180 out 1600, figures not deemed sufficiently competitive. Nor was she accepted into the summer program that granted some students admission into the university. Five black and Hispanic applicants with lower academic ratings were admitted, as were 42 white applicants with lower scores than Fisher. Among the black and Hispanic applicants with higher academic scores than Fisher, 168 were not admitted. In 2008, the average SAT score for incoming UT Austin students who finished in the top decile of their class was 1219; for other students it was 1285.

http://www.edmediacommons.org/forum...-about-the-supreme-court-affirmative-action-c

I don't really even see how she has a case here, white women are the largest benefactors of AA policies in business and education...

Can the 168 black students who were denied admission to UT with BETTER grades than her file claims for discrimination?? Furthermore how the hell can she prove a person of color or minority even got her "spot" ? This is really weak imo.
 
DO WE STILL NEED POLICIES PROVIDING PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT TO SOME RACIAL GROUPS OVER OTHERS IN ORDER TO ENSURE EQUAL ACCESS TO EDUCATION?

Policies providing preferential treatment is discrimination.
 
Funny, we talked about this same subject in my philosophy class today. I understand the arguement White Americans have but I side with AA. IMO, I think Black attendence rates would decline. I think people assume all the people over the decision of who is accepted or not is un-bias in their racial preference. That isn't true just as all the people who are over these decisions are racially bias. This law is a check for those who are though.

Also assumption that those Blacks who benefited by AA weren't as or more qualified. The problem is complex but so is racism. As long as idea of racism is still alive then AA should stand. It helps more then it hurts, AA is still neccessary.

As far as the Black community not getting their act together and I agree while those who don't got they stuff in line should be left behind. I'm a black male college with a full-time to support my self, my passions and help my mother (who needs no help but moms first imo). I know many in my graduating class whose doing nothing yet complain but equally know some who work hard and do as I or more.

I may be flamed for this last statement but abolishing AA is equal to saying their is no white preference or privilege.
 
Any of y'all read the full transcript from today?

I think the biggest irony is how the case came about.
 
As a Higher Education/Student Affairs Practitioner and a black graduate student, I feel that it would be absolutely absurd to get rid of AA in admissions.

I mean, the achievement gap is the size of the grand canyon as it is. I'll elaborate more once I have all the facts.
 
It's a moot point to argue if she already graduated from another university.

In my opinion, affirmative action in academia is still sort of necessary. There are those minority students who do have their "**** together" and I don't think they should be penalized.

When it comes to admissions, the type of education these individuals receive isn't uniform. Huge disparities exist in this country in terms of the quality of the education the youth receive. That affects test scores, which inevitably affects admissions. There has to be some sort of leveling of the playing field. Does affirmative action do achieve this? No. Of course not. But until the US education system can achieve genuine uniformity across the board, something has to be in place for minority students to at least have a chance.

It's a slippery slope.
This is exactly what I came in to say
 
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