Universal / Basic Income

[girlslovewaffles]

Universal income is so god damn stupid. The last thing we need is another reason for people to be lazy.

People already are beyond selfish and lazy, and would stop working at the drop of a dime if they knew money was going to be automatically deposited in their accounts. This is especially true for the lower socioeconomic population as they are already more prone to laziness and abuse of the system that takes care of them already. Do you know how many people have kids just to collect more $? Or cheat the system by illegally allocating their resources to different family members, pseudonyms, etc.

This is the not the answer. The answer is, and will always be, changing things at a foundational level through education, awareness, and a drastic change in culture and mindset.

 

[tokes99]

Universal income is so god damn stupid. The last thing we need is another reason for people to be lazy.

People already are beyond selfish and lazy, and would stop working at the drop of a dime if they knew money was going to be automatically deposited in their accounts. This is especially true for the lower socioeconomic population as they are already more prone to laziness and abuse of the system that takes care of them already. Do you know how many people have kids just to collect more $? Or cheat the system by illegally allocating their resources to different family members, pseudonyms, etc.

This is the not the answer. The answer is, and will always be, changing things at a foundational level through education, awareness, and a drastic change in culture and mindset.

perhaps it will incentivize some to be lazy, maybe more than is the case now...but there are a bunch of reasons a basic income could make sense, it could help countries consolidate & simplify entitlements and social welfare programs, distribute wealth more universally (as more & more wealth is been held by the top 1% of the 1%, there might be a not just a justification to redistribute wealth, it might be necessary), as the pace of technology continues to outpace the time needed to learn useful skills-people may find themselves unemployed longer as they retrain for the needed skills, many employers may find buying machines that automate tasks preferable to hiring employees, and not only will displace workers but it might also mean less work for the work that remains, it might incentivize other types of things (being able to take care of ailing family members, encourage more volunteering, etc.) by removing the concern people have about finances...

i think most would agree, a basic income type solution is not THE answer, but it could be part of mix of things that could address some of the upcoming challenges many countries may face

 

[jjs]

Can't wait for study case to show universal basic income doesn't make people more lazy than they usually are.

Like Elon Musk, i think it will be necessary in the future.

 

[Mark Antony]

What do other people's laziness have to do with you?

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

from my perspective, people who categorically dismiss the need for a UBI don't adequately consider that there will be no need for the majority of humans to work in the very near future.

put quite simply, there ain't gon' be no jobs.

you can train and learn as much as you like, hold all the certificates your mantel can support, the fact is that automation is coming and it's probably going to replace what you do within 20 years unless you're like, a neurosurgeon or an urban barber...and even stuff like that is on the fence.

with that said, under the current model this means that millions of people in first world countries all over the globe will be totally without a means of legitimate income.

you know what happens when that happens?

people get eaten...it's all good until you can't go to an ATM without a bodyguard.

and so, I know I'd rather have a UBI in place than live as one of the few "haves" in a world of "have-nots"...simple survival strategy.

besides, just what the **** is wrong with a society where "work" isn't a definitive purpose for someone's life?

a world of leisure and introspection, quality time with quality people, groundbreaking explorations of art, music and pure science driven by humanity's collective unshackling?

one of the heaviest lies laid on the human spirit is that toil is directly equal to purpose...if we can create a utopia, why the **** not?

 

[jjs]

What do other people's laziness have to do with you?

What?

People are saying UBI would make people lazy, i disagree.

And laziness on the side, i also think UBI will be necessary in the future because of automation.

 

[Mark Antony]

What do other people's laziness have to do with you?

What?

People are saying UBI would make people lazy, i disagree.

And laziness on the side, i also think UBI will be necessary in the future because of automation.

Why would you assume that was directed at you and not a general statement to the ones concerned about laziness due to UBI?

 

[jjs]

What do other people's laziness have to do with you?

What?

People are saying UBI would make people lazy, i disagree.

And laziness on the side, i also think UBI will be necessary in the future because of automation.

Why would you assume that was directed at you and not a general statement to the ones concerned about laziness due to UBI?

I don't know, that's why i said what?

It was right underneath my statement so i answered like you were talking to me

 

[getback]

Universal income is so god damn stupid. The last thing we need is another reason for people to be lazy.

People already are beyond selfish and lazy, and would stop working at the drop of a dime if they knew money was going to be automatically deposited in their accounts. This is especially true for the lower socioeconomic population as they are already more prone to laziness and abuse of the system that takes care of them already.

Uhhh... the whole point is that people won't have a choice in whether or not they'll continue to work once automation becomes commonplace.

As for your comment on the lower socieconomic demographic being more prone to laziness, where does that claim stem from?

I know people who browse barstoolsports and facebook in their cubicle for 8 hours/day while making $90K/year +benefits; and I also know single mothers who work two part time jobs for minimum wage and receive government assistance because they still can't make rent.

I'm sure people would be quicker to call the single mother "lazy" because she's the one who has to go to the welfare office. It's not always that simple.

 

[jjs]

Also the people that are part of lower socioeconomic demographic will be the first to lose their jobs due to automation.

Lazy or not they will need UBI

 

[getback]

Thought these comments were interesting:

The drive behind economic activity since the first stick was used to reach higher up the fruit tree has been to leverage human effort with tools, and in the process to do more with less. That will not change, but it leads inevitably to automation and the ability to produce more that we need to live and more people than we need to produce it, resulting in more leisure time for one and all.

What we do with that leisure is up to each of us. Some people such as Mr. Musk have chosen to use it for fun and profit by working in technology. The purpose of technology is not to maximize profits, but to enhance orderly control of the process of making, selling and distributing stuff, some of which is for basic survival and some of which is for play.

I see a UBI as an inevitable part of that technological process, designed to someday give every citizen enough money for basic survival and some play, without limiting their ability and opportunities to use their time for other ventures, self employed or working with others, for fun, helping others or for entrepreneurial efforts that result in becoming the next Elon Musk. I don’t see it as preventing life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness in any way, in fact it will enhance it for those who are currently under or unemployed and are constantly trying to make ends meet and along with some other innovations will help smooth out the ups and downs of the business cycle.

 He asks if theres no jobs, how do people have meaning since so many people derive their meaning from their work? Can’t believe he missed this one. Reconnect with humanity. Spend time with each other, derive meaning from family, community, friends, etc. Most people might spend 4 to 5 hours a weekday with their kids (if they work), and thats a lot for many, it might be 2 to 4 hours. So not working reconnects us and requires we focus on the things that really matter most, our human relationships and interactions. We will need to learn to put down devises and engage with one another. Meaning will come for the family unit and community.