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The whole world supports piracy on the high seas, potc is one the most profitable franchises out there. Its whimsical and enjoyable now, how you think peoplefelt back when it was prevalent?
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I'm not too sure I can consider someone armed with Ak47's, RPK's, and RPG-7'sharmless my dude. Regardless of the circumstances that may have led to them to this, these dudes a FAR from harmless. Have you seen Black Hawk Down, or readanything about the Battle of Mogadishu?Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
I understand that.
You make choices and you have to deal with the consequences but Somalia is the poorest and most volatile nation in the world.
These guys are just trying to make some money in the only real way to make money in that entire nation. Most of these dudes are harmless teenagers. They're not some bloodthirsty terrorists, they're local kids trying to feed their families. Doesn't mean their lives are worthless IMO.
If they had another avenue of making money they would take it.
I can't buy this argument. There is no justification for trying to hijack boats for ransom money, especially with deadly force. It'sessentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justificationfor causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else. Just because no one on theAmerican boat was killed this time doesn't mean these pirates were harmless. They were armed with rifles and rocket launchers.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
I understand that.
You make choices and you have to deal with the consequences but Somalia is the poorest and most volatile nation in the world.
These guys are just trying to make some money in the only real way to make money in that entire nation. Most of these dudes are harmless teenagers. They're not some bloodthirsty terrorists, they're local kids trying to feed their families. Doesn't mean their lives are worthless IMO.
If they had another avenue of making money they would take it.
Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you dounderstand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
Originally Posted by DL2352
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you do understand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
That's a great example and all and I'd understand if someone were to do that. I don't think one has to steal to get by in life but ifthey were to just steal bread or whatever like you said, it's not that serious really.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Originally Posted by DL2352
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you do understand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
Steal bread form a billionaire or watch your mother and daughter starve to death?
Hey, you have any idea what these "harmless" poor souls would do if you resisted theirtakeover of a ship?Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.
You think UN aid is enough to sustain Somalia?Originally Posted by DL2352
That's a great example and all and I'd understand if someone were to do that. I don't think one has to steal to get by in life but if they were to just steal bread or whatever like you said, it's not that serious really.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Originally Posted by DL2352
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you do understand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
Steal bread form a billionaire or watch your mother and daughter starve to death?
These pirates in Somalia though... let's be completely real here. They're not doing something small like that. They're hijacking boats and taking hostages, demanding millions in ransom money. This isn't a loaf of bread we're talking about here. Let's not pretend like Somalia doesn't receive aid from the UN or other outside organizations either. This isn't a matter of survival, these people are trying to come up and, obviously, see little to lose. It's not right and I see no justification for it.
My dude now you are starting to sound like a pirate apologist. You are acknowledging thepirates are stealing food from their own people, but justifying it by saying it's a steal or starve situation. You are really showing ignorance ot theSomali situation and here is how.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You think UN aid is enough to sustain Somalia?Originally Posted by DL2352
That's a great example and all and I'd understand if someone were to do that. I don't think one has to steal to get by in life but if they were to just steal bread or whatever like you said, it's not that serious really.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Originally Posted by DL2352
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you do understand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
Steal bread form a billionaire or watch your mother and daughter starve to death?
These pirates in Somalia though... let's be completely real here. They're not doing something small like that. They're hijacking boats and taking hostages, demanding millions in ransom money. This isn't a loaf of bread we're talking about here. Let's not pretend like Somalia doesn't receive aid from the UN or other outside organizations either. This isn't a matter of survival, these people are trying to come up and, obviously, see little to lose. It's not right and I see no justification for it.
People are starving to death by the hundreds of thousands fam.
And yes pirates are responsible for stealing some of the UN aide shipments off of the coast but the situation on that nation is pretty much steal or starve for millions at this point.
You are using an Americans lens to analyze a foreign situation.
Its a complex issue....Everyone is gonna keep screaming USA, USA, USA..kill the worthless thugs...until we engage in serious and prolonged military operation. Then and only then will the American public take the proper time to analyze and learn about the real situation in Somalia.
I don't know what world you live in, in which these pirates are playing some sort of Robin Hood role. You really think these millions takenfrom ransom are somehow finding their way to the poor and downtrodden of the country?Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You think UN aid is enough to sustain Somalia?Originally Posted by DL2352
That's a great example and all and I'd understand if someone were to do that. I don't think one has to steal to get by in life but if they were to just steal bread or whatever like you said, it's not that serious really.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Originally Posted by DL2352
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you do understand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
Steal bread form a billionaire or watch your mother and daughter starve to death?
These pirates in Somalia though... let's be completely real here. They're not doing something small like that. They're hijacking boats and taking hostages, demanding millions in ransom money. This isn't a loaf of bread we're talking about here. Let's not pretend like Somalia doesn't receive aid from the UN or other outside organizations either. This isn't a matter of survival, these people are trying to come up and, obviously, see little to lose. It's not right and I see no justification for it.
People are starving to death by the hundreds of thousands fam.
And yes pirates are responsible for stealing some of the UN aide shipments off of the coast but the situation on that nation is pretty much steal or starve for millions at this point.
You are using an Americans lens to analyze a foreign situation.
Its a complex issue....Everyone is gonna keep screaming USA, USA, USA..kill the worthless thugs...until we engage in serious and prolonged military operation. Then and only then will the American public take the proper time to analyze and learn about the real situation in Somalia.
Like I said...do a little research on the situation before you talk.Originally Posted by DL2352
I don't know what world you live in, in which these pirates are playing some sort of Robin Hood role. You really think these millions taken from ransom are somehow finding their way to the poor and downtrodden of the country?Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You think UN aid is enough to sustain Somalia?Originally Posted by DL2352
That's a great example and all and I'd understand if someone were to do that. I don't think one has to steal to get by in life but if they were to just steal bread or whatever like you said, it's not that serious really.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Originally Posted by DL2352
You're right. I'm not so oblivious as to think it doesn't happen but I definitely don't think it's right and even if you do understand why it happens, you can't possibly think it's right either. My view on this matter is of course shaped by my upbringing.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You have obviously never sniffed the reality of poverty.Originally Posted by DL2352
It's essentially the same argument used for people living in poverty here in the USA. To me, financial or social volatility are not adequate enough a justification for causing harm to anyone else. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you go and take it from someone else.
Steal bread form a billionaire or watch your mother and daughter starve to death?
These pirates in Somalia though... let's be completely real here. They're not doing something small like that. They're hijacking boats and taking hostages, demanding millions in ransom money. This isn't a loaf of bread we're talking about here. Let's not pretend like Somalia doesn't receive aid from the UN or other outside organizations either. This isn't a matter of survival, these people are trying to come up and, obviously, see little to lose. It's not right and I see no justification for it.
People are starving to death by the hundreds of thousands fam.
And yes pirates are responsible for stealing some of the UN aide shipments off of the coast but the situation on that nation is pretty much steal or starve for millions at this point.
You are using an Americans lens to analyze a foreign situation.
Its a complex issue....Everyone is gonna keep screaming USA, USA, USA..kill the worthless thugs...until we engage in serious and prolonged military operation. Then and only then will the American public take the proper time to analyze and learn about the real situation in Somalia.
Fashionable
"They have money; they have power and they are getting stronger by the day," says Abdi Farah Juha who lives in the regional capital, Garowe.
[table][tr][td]
The crew on MV Faina are reportedly being well-looked after
[/td] [/tr][/table]
"They wed the most beautiful girls; they are building big houses; they have new cars; new guns," he says.
"Piracy in many ways is socially acceptable. They have become fashionable."
Most of them are aged between 20 and 35 years - in it for the money.
And the rewards they receive are rich in a country where almost half the population need food aid after 17 years of non-stop conflict.
Most vessels captured in the busy shipping lanes of the Gulf of Aden fetch on average a ransom of $2m.
This is why their hostages are well looked after.
The BBC's reporter in Puntland, Ahmed Mohamed Ali, says it also explains the tight operation the pirates run.
They are never seen fighting because the promise of money keeps them together.
Wounded pirates are seldom seen and our reporter says he has never heard of residents along Puntland's coast finding a body washed ashore.
Given Somalia's history of clan warfare, this is quite a feat.
It probably explains why a report of a deadly shoot-out amongst the pirates onboard the MV Faina was denied by the vessel's hijackers.
Pirate spokesman Sugule Ali told the BBC Somali Service at the time: "Everybody is happy. We were firing guns to celebrate Eid."
Brains, muscle and geeks
The MV Faina was initially attacked by a gang of 62 men.
BBC Somalia analyst Mohamed Mohamed says such pirate gangs are usually made up of three different types:
[table][tr][td]
[/td] [/tr][/table]The three groups share the ever-increasing illicit profits - ransoms paid in cash by the shipping companies.
- Ex-fishermen, who are considered the brains of the operation because they know the sea
- Ex-militiamen, who are considered the muscle - having fought for various Somali clan warlords
- The technical experts, who are the computer geeks and know how to operate the hi-tech equipment needed to operate as a pirate - satellite phones, GPS and military hardware.
A report by UK think-tank Chatham House says piracy off the coast of Somalia has cost up to $30m (£17m) in ransoms so far this year.
The study also notes that the pirates are becoming more aggressive and assertive - something the initial $22m ransom demanded for MV Faina proves. The asking price has apparently since fallen to $8m.
Such success is a great attraction for Puntland's youngsters, who have little hope of alternative careers in the war-torn country.
Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME
In your world everything may have a reason, excuse or justification where the lowest common denominator is blaming the "socio-economic political structure caused by the imperialist powers of the world," but in most normal people's eyes,what is occurring in that part of the world is an extension of a failed, lawless state that has no way of administering proper political power withing or outside of its borders.
Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
Like I said...do a little research on the situation before you talk.
It doesn't even make sense responding to you because you have no idea what you're talking about on this subject.
Fashionable
"They have money; they have power and they are getting stronger by the day," says Abdi Farah Juha who lives in the regional capital, Garowe.
[table][tr][td]
The crew on MV Faina are reportedly being well-looked after
[/td] [/tr][/table]
"They wed the most beautiful girls; they are building big houses; they have new cars; new guns," he says.
"Piracy in many ways is socially acceptable. They have become fashionable."
Most of them are aged between 20 and 35 years - in it for the money.
And the rewards they receive are rich in a country where almost half the population need food aid after 17 years of non-stop conflict.
Most vessels captured in the busy shipping lanes of the Gulf of Aden fetch on average a ransom of $2m.
This is why their hostages are well looked after.
The BBC's reporter in Puntland, Ahmed Mohamed Ali, says it also explains the tight operation the pirates run.
They are never seen fighting because the promise of money keeps them together.
Wounded pirates are seldom seen and our reporter says he has never heard of residents along Puntland's coast finding a body washed ashore.
Given Somalia's history of clan warfare, this is quite a feat.
It probably explains why a report of a deadly shoot-out amongst the pirates onboard the MV Faina was denied by the vessel's hijackers.
Pirate spokesman Sugule Ali told the BBC Somali Service at the time: "Everybody is happy. We were firing guns to celebrate Eid."
Brains, muscle and geeks
The MV Faina was initially attacked by a gang of 62 men.
BBC Somalia analyst Mohamed Mohamed says such pirate gangs are usually made up of three different types:
[table][tr][td]
[/td] [/tr][/table]The three groups share the ever-increasing illicit profits - ransoms paid in cash by the shipping companies.
- Ex-fishermen, who are considered the brains of the operation because they know the sea
- Ex-militiamen, who are considered the muscle - having fought for various Somali clan warlords
- The technical experts, who are the computer geeks and know how to operate the hi-tech equipment needed to operate as a pirate - satellite phones, GPS and military hardware.
A report by UK think-tank Chatham House says piracy off the coast of Somalia has cost up to $30m (£17m) in ransoms so far this year.
The study also notes that the pirates are becoming more aggressive and assertive - something the initial $22m ransom demanded for MV Faina proves. The asking price has apparently since fallen to $8m.
Such success is a great attraction for Puntland's youngsters, who have little hope of alternative careers in the war-torn country.
So they were ex-fisherman and "computer geeks".And? Like this is some big revelation or something. What is your point? At the end of the day these pirates are just thugs trying to get rich by any means.They're not trying to help their fellow countrymen and they're not these harmless, despondent working men just trying to get by. Normal people do notgo out and hijack boats and take hostages in the hopes of making millions in ransom.
None of what you posted is new or eye opening. You're trying your hardest to justify their actions and I'm telling you there is no justification. Justbecause their country is war-torn or in poverty is not enough reason to cause harm or take from others. There is no gray area here. If you believe it'sokay to take from others when you yourself have none then there's no arguing with that. You believe what you believe.
Not really dude. I'm kinda making fun of you for taking on an angle of apology for these people as well as demanding that others provide anounce of empathy/sympathy because of whatever social condition the country they're from might be in. That's not the fault of the people being heldhostage by these criminals and neither is it the fault of actual good & innocent Somalians who are kept under oppression by their own people such as these.Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze
You just denounced and upheld my viewpoint in the same sentence.