*'11-'12 LAKERS Thread; 41-25* 1st Rd: DEN (go to 1st Rd. Thread)

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by sladewilson

thats crazy. and bynum is doing this with kobe who never met a shot he didnt like and gasol. while howard doesnt have %$%% on his team. you would thing howard would have more of everything.
man and bynum should get more shot attempts too.

bynum played 38 minutes tonight. about the amount of minutes mike brown said he would play bynum this year. gotta give him the ball more.

bynum needs to work on those free throws though looking like shaq at the free throw line this year smh

 

[cole world 22]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Who that dude in here last night tombout when Kobe goes for 35 next game, what then......? 37 tonight? Oh.

Where those @@#%*@#+@*#@@ Cole and Hannssum at? Come on in and discuss the game now #!!$%.

I'm here.


First of all, I'd like to address the idiot who concluded "so based on your ideas, Steve Nash is 3 times a better shooter than Ray Allen."

Do you have a brain? I said that Steve Nash has 10-11 seasons shooting over 47%, and Ray Allen has 3-4 seasons over 47% (or whatever the # of seasons was). From that, you decide to say that I concluded that Steve Nash is 3 times a better shooter than Ray Allen? How? Why? Kill yourself, please.


Secondly, Ska is that dude.

Thirdly, I've been using the Iverson/Kobe comparison for years. If Iverson went to the Lakers under the same circumstances (SHAQ), and Kobe went to the 76ers under the same circumstances (no help, EVER), they would be in each other's shoes today. I believe that 100%. Kobe would be black-balled from the league.


4) Regarding tonight's game... you guys can say what you want. If you think this Lakers' team is going to do anything significant with Kobe Bryant shooting 28-29 shots per game, you're further proving that Lakers' fans lack brain cells. THERE IS NO REASON KOBE BRYANT SHOULD BE SHOOTING MORE THAN ANDREW BYNUM AND PAU GASOL COMBINED. That's if you want a winning formula. If you're just a clown who wants to brag about how many points Kobe "I have to score the most points" Bryant scores (which is the biggest concern for a lot of you Lakers' "fans"), then you'll have fun. You guys beat a mediocre Rockets' team because they're mediocre AND because Kobe Bryant had a decent shooting game (48%). Let me know when he can shoot 48% in a season. If you think you're going to win with this formula in the playoffs, think again. You guys really think you were going to continue to depend on Celtics' injuries (Garnett 2009, Perkins 2010) to win championships? Please.


5) Tonight's game further proved my notion that Andrew Bynum is, HANDS DOWN, the Lakers' best player. He should undeniably be the number one option, but Kobe Bryant has to score the most points. Did you see Bynum before halftime? Get used to it. Bynum and Kobe WILL clash publicly at some point.


6) Regarding Kevin Durant's 8-27 shooting, I give ZERO #$%+!. Why? Because I've never heard Kevin Durant compared to Jordan, I've never heard people say Kevin Durant is a top 10 player ever, etc. That's the biggest issue I have with these Kobe Stans that have no sense of mathematics or logic. If you guys will stop saying "Kobe Bryant is clutch," "Kobe Bryant is top 5 all-time," "Kobe Bryant is top 10 all-time," I'd have no issues.


I got a serious question: If Kobe Bryant is top ____ all-time, where does Paul Pierce rank?

I don't crown players off LUCK.

Can you put aside the fact that Kobe Bryant was lucky to come into the league with a prime Shaq for EIGHT years, while Paul Pierce was UNLUCKY to have the first 9 years of his career absolutely wasted?

Can you do that?


If you can, what is the difference between Paul Pierce's career and Kobe Bryant's?

The difference is that Kobe Bryant has scored 3 points per game more because he's attempted 3 more shots per game throughout his career. Everything else is nearly identical.


I don't want to hear about how many rings Kobe has, because those are a matter of luck.

I don't care about his All-Defensive First-Team awards, because those are utter nonsense (Kobe Bryant... 2011 First-Team All-Defense?).


So tell me... if Kobe Bryant is top 7-8 all-time, where does Paul Pierce rank? 6? 7? 8? 9?


Let's see who can give me a reasonable answer. I already know the brainless people gonna come in here with a "you mad?" response because they have no other defense.

 

[cole world 22]

No way my post just disappeared...

n/m, Yuku is buggin'.

 

[letitshine24]

Originally Posted by Cole World 22

Originally Posted by CP1708

Who that dude in here last night tombout when Kobe goes for 35 next game, what then......? 37 tonight? Oh.

Where those @@#%*@#+@*#@@ Cole and Hannssum at? Come on in and discuss the game now #!!$%.

I'm here.


First of all, I'd like to address the idiot who concluded "so based on your ideas, Steve Nash is 3 times a better shooter than Ray Allen."

Do you have a brain? I said that Steve Nash has 10-11 seasons shooting over 47%, and Ray Allen has 3-4 seasons over 47% (or whatever the # of seasons was). From that, you decide to say that I concluded that Steve Nash is 3 times a better shooter than Ray Allen? How? Why? Kill yourself, please.


Secondly, Ska is that dude.

Thirdly, I've been using the Iverson/Kobe comparison for years. If Iverson went to the Lakers under the same circumstances (SHAQ), and Kobe went to the 76ers under the same circumstances (no help, EVER), they would be in each other's shoes today. I believe that 100%. Kobe would be black-balled from the league.


4) Regarding tonight's game... you guys can say what you want. If you think this Lakers' team is going to do anything significant with Kobe Bryant shooting 28-29 shots per game, you're further proving that Lakers' fans lack brain cells. THERE IS NO REASON KOBE BRYANT SHOULD BE SHOOTING MORE THAN ANDREW BYNUM AND PAU GASOL COMBINED. That's if you want a winning formula. If you're just a clown who wants to brag about how many points Kobe "I have to score the most points" Bryant scores (which is the biggest concern for a lot of you Lakers' "fans"), then you'll have fun. You guys beat a mediocre Rockets' team because they're mediocre AND because Kobe Bryant had a decent shooting game (48%). Let me know when he can shoot 48% in a season. If you think you're going to win with this formula in the playoffs, think again. You guys really think you were going to continue to depend on Celtics' injuries (Garnett 2009, Perkins 2010) to win championships? Please.


5) Tonight's game further proved my notion that Andrew Bynum is, HANDS DOWN, the Lakers' best player. He should undeniably be the number one option, but Kobe Bryant has to score the most points. Did you see Bynum before halftime? Get used to it. Bynum and Kobe WILL clash publicly at some point.


6) Regarding Kevin Durant's 8-27 shooting, I give ZERO #$%+!. Why? Because I've never heard Kevin Durant compared to Jordan, I've never heard people say Kevin Durant is a top 10 player ever, etc. That's the biggest issue I have with these Kobe Stans that have no sense of mathematics or logic. If you guys will stop saying "Kobe Bryant is clutch," "Kobe Bryant is top 5 all-time," "Kobe Bryant is top 10 all-time," I'd have no issues.


I got a serious question: If Kobe Bryant is top ____ all-time, where does Paul Pierce rank?

I don't crown players off LUCK.

Can you put aside the fact that Kobe Bryant was lucky to come into the league with a prime Shaq for EIGHT years, while Paul Pierce was UNLUCKY to have the first 9 years of his career absolutely wasted?

Can you do that?


If you can, what is the difference between Paul Pierce's career and Kobe Bryant's?

The difference is that Kobe Bryant has scored 3 points per game more because he's attempted 3 more shots per game throughout his career. Everything else is nearly identical.


I don't want to hear about how many rings Kobe has, because those are a matter of luck.

I don't care about his All-Defensive First-Team awards, because those are utter nonsense (Kobe Bryant... 2011 First-Team All-Defense?).


So tell me... if Kobe Bryant is top 7-8 all-time, where does Paul Pierce rank? 6? 7? 8? 9?


Let's see who can give me a reasonable answer. I already know the brainless people gonna come in here with a "you mad?" response because they have no other defense.

Get out of here with that Paul Pierce nonsense. Did you watch Kobe in his prime? The way he would %#$@ all over his defenders, lock down the opposing teams top player. And a matter of luck? Then I guess Jordan got lucky playing with the likes of Pippen and Rodman right? Get out of here with your nonsense. I would write more but unfortunately its 2:33 am and i have a life.

 

[cole world 22]

^ Michael Jordan shot 50% for his career, went to 6 Finals, won 6 Finals, won 6 NBA Finals' MVPs.

He was the best player on the best stage, EVERY time.


Kobe Bryant went to 7 Finals, and won 2 MVPs... one of which belongs to Ron Artest.



Michael Jordan dominated the NBA Finals with career numbers of 33.5, 6 and 6 on 48% shooting.

Kobe Bryant scored 25/game in the Finals on 41% shooting. FOURTY-ONE PERCENT. LoL.


Please stop comparing those guys, you just make yourself look foolish.

 

[letitshine24]

No one is comparing Kobe Vs Jordan. We all know Jordan>Kobe. YOU SIR please stop comparing the likes of Paul Pierce to Kobe Bryant. Your making yourself look foolish. Please just stop.

 

[cole world 22]

Originally Posted by LetItShine24

No one is comparing Kobe Vs Jordan. We all know Jordan>Kobe. YOU SIR please stop comparing the likes of Paul Pierce to Kobe Bryant. Your making yourself look foolish. Please just stop.

When I say stop comparing Kobe to Jordan, there's stats to prove why there's no comparison.


Why don't you show me numbers that suggest there's no comparison between Pierce and Kobe?

I would take Pierce over Kobe every time. More clutch in the playoffs, more of a team player. Everything else is the same.

 

[licensed to ball]

After seeing that huge chunk of text above I was very tempted to use my very first "Did Not Read" .gif, but after seeing who the poster was I decided I would pass and just avoid feeding the troll even the smallest snack.

 

[kb8 3qwick]

The only player from Kobe's era that could've replaced him and we MIGHT have had near the same success was prime T-Mac. He was the only one with a similar all-around game. And I don't think any of those players would've won the '09 and '10 championships with the same team we had anyways.

 

[darthska]

LetItShine24:

---

Did you watch Kobe in his prime? The way he would %#$@ all over his defenders, lock down the opposing teams top player..
That never happened.

Sure, there are obviously some highlights of a block on Steve Nash here, a strip of Garnett in the paint there… but you're talking like there was this chunk of time where Kobe made the opponent's best player a non-factor. That chunk of time only exists in your imagination. Period.

 

[darthska]

Cole World 22:

---

First of all, I'd like to address the idiot who concluded "so based on your ideas, Steve Nash is 3 times a better shooter than Ray Allen."… … Do you have a brain?… … Kill yourself, please… … the brainless people
Like I told HANNSUM a couple days ago, if you can't make your point without being insulting/disrespectful, then don't bother.

 

[CP1708]

@#$% man, I was wantin to come in here and continue on a nice topic with Ska, and then I see all that stupid @#$ !*$%#$@!. 

%$%%%!@ ridiculous, I %$%%%!@ swear. 

So now Kobe is almost the same as AI if they switched jobs in 96, Pierce is as good as Kobe, Andrew Bynum is the best Laker now (we'll forget the past 7 years of people clowning on him repeatedly, now he's the best player on the team) and on top of all that garbage I get this sentence If you think this Lakers' team is going to do anything significant with Kobe Bryant shooting 28-29 shots per game, Yeah, of course, because Kobe will keep shooting 28 times a game, all year long he won't adjust his game at all, ever, cuz he never does, ever. 

 

You take a handful of regular games where he works on some stuff, and put that up as "season long plan" which is possibly the most shortsighted nonsense I ever seen on NT. 


What a %$%%%!@ joke. 

Then he comes with, "because he gets compared to michael jordan."  blah blah blah.  So?  No really, so?  So after game 7 of the regular season, you need to make up a bunch of bs to make yourself feel better, because his name gets linked to mj?  That would impliy that ONLY Laker fans link him to MJ.  That you know, no media members mention the 2 in the same breath.  That only us idiot Laker fans would ever be so smug and so stupid as to mention the 2 together.  Yeaaaaahhhh, no.  That ain't how it goes smart guy. 

Ska, I'll come thru and actually talk intelligent basketball talk with you in a lil bit.  Been workin on my stuff in my head all morning. 

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

CP:

---

And Ska, you was talkin bout Ray Allen from the 96 draft. I'll get to that in the morning, same with Phil/Sloan/Pop. It's a good convo.

Roger that. Let me save us both a couple paragraphs, though:

- "Ska, surely you can acknowledge that Ray Allen is nowhere near the defender that Kobe is."
- "Obviously, but if our defense was lacking with a long-term commitment to Ray Allen, then a good coach would put in schemes that suit his personnel."
- "blah, blah, blah rebounding blah"
- "blah, blah different kind of successful blah"

Naw, I may have mentioned briefly, but this wouldn't have been my main focus, I promise.  

  

 

[caleekicks]

I didn't get my tacos after the game

We sat in the PR section, so our floor exit takes u straight to Figueroa.


I wanted too keep the coupon as a keepsake lol

 

[freeze]

good win.

 

[ag 47]

Kobe made the opponent's best player a non-factor


Ironically, he used to lock down A.I. I remember vividly how his length and quickness used to give Iverson fits.

 

[uncalled4boy]

Cole World 22 wrote:
Kobe Bryant went to 7 Finals, and won 2 MVPs... one of which belongs to Ron Artest.

 

[essential1]

Trolls Gone Wild in the Lakers NT thread...

 

[darthska]

You guys ask them where they went, they show up, throw some stats out, then you call them trolls.

 

[mr j 858]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

LetItShine24:

---

Did you watch Kobe in his prime? The way he would %#$@ all over his defenders, lock down the opposing teams top player..

That never happened.

Sure, there are obviously some highlights of a block on Steve Nash here, a strip of Garnett in the paint there… but you're talking like there was this chunk of time where Kobe made the opponent's best player a non-factor. That chunk of time only exists in your imagination. Period.

Lies.

Go back and watch the 2008 Olympics.

You know damn well Kobe was a beast and shut down the rest of the worlds best defenders during the Olympics and Coach K was saying Kobe was the one leading team USA with his D and was leading by example.

 

[darthska]

AG 47:

---

Ironically, he used to lock down A.I.
Numbers and/or stats to support this claim, please?

And I'm not talking about stats that show Iverson's numbers 'went down a few points' whenever he played the Lakers; I'm talking about stats that show that he was 'locked down', since that's the phrase you used.

 

[goldenarmz97]

1. Kobe Finds Shot, But Not Blooming Bynum
By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com
Archive
LOS ANGELES -- The most fascinating matchup in the NBA has become who Kobe Bryant is versus who he was.

At times it's a violent clash. Exhibit A came Sunday in Denver, where current Kobe missed 22 of 28 shots. Then there are times when the past wins out and it's as beautiful a sight as the high-arcing, fallaway jumper he dropped through the net against the Houston Rockets on Tuesday.

You never know what to expect from game to game, or even quarter to quarter. Bryant made his first three shots Tuesday, then missed nine of his next 12.

Then he made five of seven in the third quarter. He finished with a stat line that would have been the most beautiful thing in the building if Cindy Crawford hadn't been sitting courtside at Staples Center: 37 points on 14-for-29 shooting, along with eight rebounds, six assists and one taco-saving block in the Lakers' 108-99 victory over the Rockets.

But the Lakers could end up with an innocent civilian casualty from Kobe's internal war: Andrew Bynum.

Bynum, now in his seventh NBA year, has been posting All-Star numbers since the suspension-delayed start to his season. Tuesday provided the best yet, to the tune of 21 points, 22 rebounds and three blocked shots. He is skying for rebounds and maneuvering around opponents in the paint with an array of moves.

Apparently it will take much more than that for Bynum to become the first option. Through hot streaks and cold streaks, Kobe took more shots than Bynum and Pau Gasol combined once again, despite the big men's higher efficiency (58 percent shooting to 48 percent). At least this time Bryant's shots were coming from better places than they did in Denver, including on the block against smaller defenders.

Still, it was evident the lack of even distribution was getting to Bynum at halftime, when he scowled, untucked his jersey and brushed aside a teammate as he stomped toward the locker room. Bynum said he was mad at himself for missing some easy shots and frustrated because "I was running the court and wasn't getting the ball."

Late in the game, Bryant seemed more intent on going for his first 40-point game of the season than facilitating Bynum's first 20-20 game of his career. With Bynum sitting on 17 points and 21 rebounds in the final four minutes, Kobe took seven shots in about three minutes. (Kobe was more considerate to the fans; when Kyle Lowry attempted a 3-pointer that could have given the Rockets their 100th point, thus denying Lakers fans free tacos in a promotion, Kobe blocked the shot.)

It took Bynum grabbing an offensive rebound, getting fouled and making two free throws to get to 19. Then Matt Barnes, who noted Bynum's stats before he checked back into the game, threw a long pass to the giant receiver he compared to Calvin Johnson of the Detroit Lions ("I saw 'Megatron' running down the middle of the field," Barnes said) for a dunk that brought Bynum to the milestone.

Bynum can afford to go after personal statistical goals because of what his numbers mean to the Lakers.

"It's only benefiting," Bynum said. "Consequently, we'll be able to get out, we'll be able to run, we'll get guys open shots. We have three guys that can command double-teams. Offensively, we just go down low to one of us -- or set screens for each other -- and then defenses collapse, we'll hit shots."

It's the same case Shaquille O'Neal used to make ... and perhaps once the playoffs roll around, Bryant will come back to the fold the way he used to in the postseason when the Lakers were three-peating.

For now, however, Bryant is testing the limits of his 33-year-old body, in particular the right wrist with the torn ligament.

"Some shots it hurts, some shots it doesn't, so it's pretty inconsistent," Bryant said in an on-court television interview.

He elaborated later in the locker room, saying it affects his release point.

"You try to make every release the same, but it doesn't work out that way," he said. "Sometimes when I follow through, it just catches. I have to figure out how to make it more consistent."

There are times when his cartoonishly swollen right hand won't even allow him to catch the ball cleanly or throw a simple pass.

On Tuesday night, he ditched the Allen Iverson-style arm sleeve he wore in previous games (he said it was too restrictive) and went with just tape on the wrist. He's learning how to play through this at the same time he and the Lakers are learning a new offense. The one thing he won't get is a stop sign from coach Mike Brown. Brown didn't hesitate to call Bryant out for defensive lapses in the opening game, but he has yet to criticize him for shot volume or selection.

"He's a great player, and you've got to give great players, in my opinion, some freedom," Brown said.

"Kobe's a superstar. He's been there, done that. He can score. You've got to give him more freedom than I give Darius Morris. You've got to give him more freedom than I give Pau Gasol, more freedom than Derek Fisher. That's it. There's nothing more to it."

So there's the update from the front on the NBA's biggest battle. Kobe Bryant is liberated; Bynum is a prisoner of war.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime

 

[darthska]

MR J 858:

---

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

LetItShine24:

---

Did you watch Kobe in his prime? The way he would %#$@ all over his defenders, lock down the opposing teams top player..

That never happened.

Sure, there are obviously some highlights of a block on Steve Nash here, a strip of Garnett in the paint there… but you're talking like there was this chunk of time where Kobe made the opponent's best player a non-factor. That chunk of time only exists in your imagination. Period.

Lies.

Go back and watch the 2008 Olympics.

You know damn well Kobe was a beast and shut down the rest of the worlds best defenders during the Olympics and Coach K was saying Kobe was the one leading team USA with his D and was leading by example.

You're absolutely right. 'Twas a beautiful thing.

And you and I both know that's not what LeItShine was talking about; I highly doubt that when he mentioned 'Kobe in his prime', he was just talking about 'summer 2008'.

So again, this era/period of Kobe's prime where he locked down the opponent's best player, that chunk of time only exists in your imagination, LetItShine (except for summer 200.

 

[vanexellent]

How do you argue with this Cole World 22 guy when he called Kobe "an average shootjng guard" a few days ago, said his luck got him 5 rings and then says Paul Pierce is better? You cant win in an argument when somone doesnt accept facts & truths.These type of post remind me of the early Niketalk days when Kobe was compared to Iverson, T-Mac, Vince Carter and others. And when he clearly surpassed them it got quiet. Now as his career winds down and his game is on the decline, not only do some compare him to younger better talent (Wade & Lebron) but actually make themselves look stupid by trying down grade a first ballot HOF career. Stats, numbers, rings and all the accolades make Cole World 22's opinions look silly. Regarding the defense and Ska's critique of it....I personally think Kobe got the numerous defensive team nods not for being a lock down defender but rather for his effort and all around defense (playing passing lanes, ball denial, pressuring ball handlers, fighting through screens, post defense position etc)... stuff that coaches who vote for the defensive teams appreciate. Throw in sometimes highlight games on defense against Iverson, T-Mac & Vince and he gets that rep. Most Laker fans should agree that Kobe doesnt deserve to be First Team All Defense the last few years (because he picks his spots, doesnt contest shots and he's not as quick). But in his prime he did deserve those awards.

 

[CP1708]

I can't stop laughing at Ron Artest was the Finals MVP.  And then others will say Pau.  Hey, what about Fish's game 3, maybe he should get a share of the MVP of that finals too.  What about Sasha's free throws? 

I find it funny that in 16 years, Kobe has never been the best player on his own team.  First it was Shaq, then it was Odom, then it was Pau, now it's Bynum......the thirst these guys must have searching for someone else to make 2 consecutive buckets so they can say they are better than Kobe. 

Paul Pierce, 2008 Finals MVP, guarded by Luke Walton and Vlad Radmonovich.  Yup.  (Ariza was hurt that series, never got a chance to play healthy minus a few minutes here or there at the end)

Kobe, guarded by Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Tony Allen and James Posey. 

Gee, they are so similar.  Their careers are almost mirrors of each other. 

Cole, lemme answer your ridiculous Pierce question with the absolute biggest Celtic homer and Kobe hater in the world.  Bill Simmons.  He revised his book of basketball after the 09 finals.  He had Kobe ranked as high as 7-8 ALL TIME, and Pierce in the mid 50's.  That was BEFORE Kobe and the Lakers added another title.  Over Pierce. 

Again, read slowly, this is not me, this is Bill Simmons, biggest Laker hater on earth, Celtic Die Hard, makes jokes about 6-24 and Germany surgeries every day, ranks Kobe top 7-8, Pierce top 55ish. 

So similar, they are.