14th Amendment #weoffthat

[budweiser]

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by rashi

Pearce argues that the "original intent" of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to freed U.S. slaves, and that it was never meant to apply to the children of foreigners.

As much as I hate the Nation-State concept, this is actually true. Not only for slaves, it was for also the Western territories.

I don't see how denying "birthright" is racist, though. No other wealthy western nations allows birthright citizenship, you can't become a citizen unless you parents are a citizen. Are those nations racist as well?

We're talking about the US, not any other nation. It's in our constitution.
This is obviously racist legislation because its target is minorities. Who else would it be targeting? I don't see waves of Europeans immigrating to the states, legal or not, in 2011. 

How did I know someone would scream "It's in the Constitution!". The Constitution is just a piece of paper with arbitrary language, this government doesn't even follow what is in the Constitution. So now because "illegal immigration" is being used as a political ploy this is even relevant. You don't see waves of Europeans coming into this country because they have no reason too, our taxes are higher and they have more opportunity there.

 Word? Take this from a first generation immigrant from europe, you dead wrong sir.



This is an absurd statement. You don't see waves of European illegal immigration because we don't share a border with Europe. But there are still legal European immigrants that overstay their visas.

You can't make such a wide generalization. And you'll see increased European immigration as parts of Western Europe continue to struggle.

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...should make it retroactive 400 years...

Just because the Native Americans failed to take a proactive stance (and look how that turned out) toward their new neighbors, doesn't mean the United States should do the same.

 

[budweiser]

Originally Posted by 2LipsLegit

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by rashi

Pearce argues that the "original intent" of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to freed U.S. slaves, and that it was never meant to apply to the children of foreigners.

As much as I hate the Nation-State concept, this is actually true. Not only for slaves, it was for also the Western territories.

I don't see how denying "birthright" is racist, though. No other wealthy western nations allows birthright citizenship, you can't become a citizen unless you parents are a citizen. Are those nations racist as well?

We're talking about the US, not any other nation. It's in our constitution.
This is obviously racist legislation because its target is minorities. Who else would it be targeting? I don't see waves of Europeans immigrating to the states, legal or not, in 2011. 

How did I know someone would scream "It's in the Constitution!". The Constitution is just a piece of paper with arbitrary language, this government doesn't even follow what is in the Constitution. So now because "illegal immigration" is being used as a political ploy this is even relevant. You don't see waves of Europeans coming into this country because they have no reason too, our taxes are higher and they have more opportunity there.

 Word? Take this from a first generation immigrant from europe, you dead wrong sir.



This is an absurd statement. You don't see waves of European illegal immigration because we don't share a border with Europe. But there are still legal European immigrants that overstay their visas.

You can't make such a wide generalization. And you'll see increased European immigration as parts of Western Europe continue to struggle.

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...should make it retroactive 400 years...

Just because the Native Americans failed to take a proactive stance (and look how that turned out) toward their new neighbors, doesn't mean the United States should do the same.

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...should make it retroactive 400 years...

Sweet. My folks.

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...should make it retroactive 400 years...

Sweet. My folks.

 

[cryptikman]

I really do not see anything wrong with this. My parents and I immigrated to this country, legally, when I was young. I had a greencard until I was able to take my citizenship test when I was 18. My family and I, along with millions of others before us, had to go through this legalities, why not the immigrants now?

 

[cryptikman]

I really do not see anything wrong with this. My parents and I immigrated to this country, legally, when I was young. I had a greencard until I was able to take my citizenship test when I was 18. My family and I, along with millions of others before us, had to go through this legalities, why not the immigrants now?

 

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by cryptikman


I really do not see anything wrong with this. My parents and I immigrated to this country, legally, when I was young. I had a greencard until I was able to take my citizenship test when I was 18. My family and I, along with millions of others before us, had to go through this legalities, why not the immigrants now?

This legislation isn't about the parents, it's about the kids. Children of the parents of illegal immigrants didn't choose to be born here. If they grew up here, went to school here, and lived their entire lives here...and are found to have been born to illegal immigrants, they should be forced to leave the country?

 

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by cryptikman


I really do not see anything wrong with this. My parents and I immigrated to this country, legally, when I was young. I had a greencard until I was able to take my citizenship test when I was 18. My family and I, along with millions of others before us, had to go through this legalities, why not the immigrants now?

This legislation isn't about the parents, it's about the kids. Children of the parents of illegal immigrants didn't choose to be born here. If they grew up here, went to school here, and lived their entire lives here...and are found to have been born to illegal immigrants, they should be forced to leave the country?

 

[gg23]

Just wondering...

If the legislation does pass and a child is born here from alien parents, then what country does the child have citizenship in?  Their parents home country or is he or she stateless?

 

[gg23]

Just wondering...

If the legislation does pass and a child is born here from alien parents, then what country does the child have citizenship in?  Their parents home country or is he or she stateless?

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by rashi

Pearce argues that the "original intent" of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to freed U.S. slaves, and that it was never meant to apply to the children of foreigners.

As much as I hate the Nation-State concept, this is actually true. Not only for slaves, it was for also the Western territories.

I don't see how denying "birthright" is racist, though. No other wealthy western nations allows birthright citizenship, you can't become a citizen unless you parents are a citizen. Are those nations racist as well?

We're talking about the US, not any other nation. It's in our constitution.
This is obviously racist legislation because its target is minorities. Who else would it be targeting? I don't see waves of Europeans immigrating to the states, legal or not, in 2011. 

How did I know someone would scream "It's in the Constitution!". The Constitution is just a piece of paper with arbitrary language, this government doesn't even follow what is in the Constitution. So now because "illegal immigration" is being used as a political ploy this is even relevant. You don't see waves of Europeans coming into this country because they have no reason too, our taxes are higher and they have more opportunity there. Now, if you look at people coming from South America or Mexico, they are obviously coming here because even though our government is forceful and coercive, it still doesn't measure up to what it is in those countries. This law isn't racist, it applies to everyone, but because those "people of color" happen to be more of a higher probability of being here illegally than someone with fair skin it comes off as "racist", but it really isn't. The way the use the law, that's a different story.

Do you understand how hard it was for the Europeans that came over here? Do you understand the scrutiny they had to overcome? The racism then was far more worse then as it is today.

That's your opinion. As far as most people are concerned, the Constitution is the supreme law of the country.
It's irrelevant why or why not people are coming into this country. This legislation's effects will only be felt by minority groups since those are the groups that have immigrated here illegally within the timeframe this legislation is targeting.


Actually no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact. The Supreme Court ruled in Marbury v. Madison that the Supreme Court is the "overall arbiter" of the Constitution. Which means that they have a monopoly over the interpretation of what that piece of paper says. Also, depending who is sitting on the bench and their ideology they will impose their own personal feelings on how the laws are exercised. Using the Constitution as discretion to prove a point in your argument is moot. People are illegal have already breaking the "supreme law" of the land, so why should they be rewarded with citizenship with an "anchor baby"? Don't get me wrong, I wish there was open immigration, but not in this Welfare environment.

jahova718:

word?
tell that to the eastern Europeans who basically dominate the maintenence service industry here.

they pay 5-10k for a job HERE. they pay that JUST TO GET HERE AND WORK. im colombian but i see it all the time.

this is a radical approach to a real problem. there are elements of racism but anyone who think immigration is not a problem is crazy.something needs to be done but this is not it. amnesty to all here, SEAL the border. 
i am first generation citizen both my parents came here from colombia, i am NOT against immigration, but i AM against ILLEGAL immigration. big difference

Dominate the maintenance service industry where? Certainly not where I live.

2LipsLegit:

Word? Take this from a first generation immigrant from europe, you dead wrong sir.

You sure about that?

United Kingdom: Corporate Tax - High end is around 28%, low end is near 20%; Individual Tax - Can vary, but high end is 50%
Italy: Corporate Tax - 30%; Individual Tax - 20-43%
Ireland: Corporate Tax - 10% (One of the lowest in the world); Individual Tax - 0-40%; Payroll Tax - 11%
Greece: Corporate Tax - 25%; Individual Tax: 0-45%
Hungary: Corporate Tax - High end 20%, low end 10%; Individual Tax - High end 36%, low end 18%
Luxemburg: Corporate Tax - 30%; Individual Tax - High end 39%, low end 6%
Netherlands: Corporate Tax - High end 25%, low end 20%; Individual Tax - 0-50%


I just posted a few here, others have lowers rates, but an additional tax for their National Health Care and VAT.

United States: Corporate Taxes - Federal: 40% and add additional State tax which varies
                         Individual Taxes - High end 35% and add additional State taxes which varies
                         Payroll Taxes - 15%
                         VAT - Varies among the states, here in FL it varies by county. Here in Miami we pay about 8%

So tell me, if you were an entrapenuer is there really a benefit to starting a company in the U.S.?

This is an absurd statement. You don't see waves of European illegal immigration because we don't share a border with Europe. But there are still legal European immigrants that overstay their visas.

Why is my statement so absurd? How many millions migrated over here on a boat in the early 20th Century? Did we share more of a border with Europe then?

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

Originally Posted by rashi

Pearce argues that the "original intent" of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to freed U.S. slaves, and that it was never meant to apply to the children of foreigners.

As much as I hate the Nation-State concept, this is actually true. Not only for slaves, it was for also the Western territories.

I don't see how denying "birthright" is racist, though. No other wealthy western nations allows birthright citizenship, you can't become a citizen unless you parents are a citizen. Are those nations racist as well?

We're talking about the US, not any other nation. It's in our constitution.
This is obviously racist legislation because its target is minorities. Who else would it be targeting? I don't see waves of Europeans immigrating to the states, legal or not, in 2011. 

How did I know someone would scream "It's in the Constitution!". The Constitution is just a piece of paper with arbitrary language, this government doesn't even follow what is in the Constitution. So now because "illegal immigration" is being used as a political ploy this is even relevant. You don't see waves of Europeans coming into this country because they have no reason too, our taxes are higher and they have more opportunity there. Now, if you look at people coming from South America or Mexico, they are obviously coming here because even though our government is forceful and coercive, it still doesn't measure up to what it is in those countries. This law isn't racist, it applies to everyone, but because those "people of color" happen to be more of a higher probability of being here illegally than someone with fair skin it comes off as "racist", but it really isn't. The way the use the law, that's a different story.

Do you understand how hard it was for the Europeans that came over here? Do you understand the scrutiny they had to overcome? The racism then was far more worse then as it is today.

That's your opinion. As far as most people are concerned, the Constitution is the supreme law of the country.
It's irrelevant why or why not people are coming into this country. This legislation's effects will only be felt by minority groups since those are the groups that have immigrated here illegally within the timeframe this legislation is targeting.


Actually no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact. The Supreme Court ruled in Marbury v. Madison that the Supreme Court is the "overall arbiter" of the Constitution. Which means that they have a monopoly over the interpretation of what that piece of paper says. Also, depending who is sitting on the bench and their ideology they will impose their own personal feelings on how the laws are exercised. Using the Constitution as discretion to prove a point in your argument is moot. People are illegal have already breaking the "supreme law" of the land, so why should they be rewarded with citizenship with an "anchor baby"? Don't get me wrong, I wish there was open immigration, but not in this Welfare environment.

jahova718:

word?
tell that to the eastern Europeans who basically dominate the maintenence service industry here.

they pay 5-10k for a job HERE. they pay that JUST TO GET HERE AND WORK. im colombian but i see it all the time.

this is a radical approach to a real problem. there are elements of racism but anyone who think immigration is not a problem is crazy.something needs to be done but this is not it. amnesty to all here, SEAL the border. 
i am first generation citizen both my parents came here from colombia, i am NOT against immigration, but i AM against ILLEGAL immigration. big difference

Dominate the maintenance service industry where? Certainly not where I live.

2LipsLegit:

Word? Take this from a first generation immigrant from europe, you dead wrong sir.

You sure about that?

United Kingdom: Corporate Tax - High end is around 28%, low end is near 20%; Individual Tax - Can vary, but high end is 50%
Italy: Corporate Tax - 30%; Individual Tax - 20-43%
Ireland: Corporate Tax - 10% (One of the lowest in the world); Individual Tax - 0-40%; Payroll Tax - 11%
Greece: Corporate Tax - 25%; Individual Tax: 0-45%
Hungary: Corporate Tax - High end 20%, low end 10%; Individual Tax - High end 36%, low end 18%
Luxemburg: Corporate Tax - 30%; Individual Tax - High end 39%, low end 6%
Netherlands: Corporate Tax - High end 25%, low end 20%; Individual Tax - 0-50%


I just posted a few here, others have lowers rates, but an additional tax for their National Health Care and VAT.

United States: Corporate Taxes - Federal: 40% and add additional State tax which varies
                         Individual Taxes - High end 35% and add additional State taxes which varies
                         Payroll Taxes - 15%
                         VAT - Varies among the states, here in FL it varies by county. Here in Miami we pay about 8%

So tell me, if you were an entrapenuer is there really a benefit to starting a company in the U.S.?

This is an absurd statement. You don't see waves of European illegal immigration because we don't share a border with Europe. But there are still legal European immigrants that overstay their visas.

Why is my statement so absurd? How many millions migrated over here on a boat in the early 20th Century? Did we share more of a border with Europe then?

 

[trent ferris]

I don't see the Supreme Court supporting this.

 

[trent ferris]

I don't see the Supreme Court supporting this.

 

[salviboy7]

It's easy to criticize a subject or thing you haven't gone through, immigration (legal or illegal).

 

[salviboy7]

It's easy to criticize a subject or thing you haven't gone through, immigration (legal or illegal).

 

[budweiser]

Originally Posted by rashi

Why is my statement so absurd? How many millions migrated over here on a boat in the early 20th Century? Did we share more of a border with Europe then?

Your statement is absurd because you said Europeans don't immigrate here because they have more opportunity in Europe. This is a completely irresponsible thing to say. How can you possibly apply your statement to an entire continent? Just because you're not seeing it in your neck of the woods doesn't mean it's not happening. I live in one of the biggest Irish (IRISH IRISH, not St. Paddy's Irish) neighborhoods in the country. Just the other day my buddy got offered 5k to marry a broad. So don't tell me Europeans aren't coming here.

 

[budweiser]

Originally Posted by rashi

Why is my statement so absurd? How many millions migrated over here on a boat in the early 20th Century? Did we share more of a border with Europe then?

Your statement is absurd because you said Europeans don't immigrate here because they have more opportunity in Europe. This is a completely irresponsible thing to say. How can you possibly apply your statement to an entire continent? Just because you're not seeing it in your neck of the woods doesn't mean it's not happening. I live in one of the biggest Irish (IRISH IRISH, not St. Paddy's Irish) neighborhoods in the country. Just the other day my buddy got offered 5k to marry a broad. So don't tell me Europeans aren't coming here.

 

[e3lal]

Originally Posted by Essential1

And these are the same %$$!%#+* who scream "Follow the Constitution".. IRONY

 

[e3lal]

Originally Posted by Essential1

And these are the same %$$!%#+* who scream "Follow the Constitution".. IRONY

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by Budweiser

Originally Posted by rashi

Why is my statement so absurd? How many millions migrated over here on a boat in the early 20th Century? Did we share more of a border with Europe then?

Your statement is absurd because you said Europeans don't immigrate here because they have more opportunity in Europe. This is a completely irresponsible thing to say. How can you possibly apply your statement to an entire continent? Just because you're not seeing it in your neck of the woods doesn't mean it's not happening. I live in one of the biggest Irish (IRISH IRISH, not St. Paddy's Irish) neighborhoods in the country. Just the other day my buddy got offered 5k to marry a broad. So don't tell me Europeans aren't coming here.

I probably live in the one of th highest immigration areas on the east coast of this country and getting married for money is a huge business here, as a matter of fact my barber just married this Venezuelan chick 2 weeks ago for 15 g's. The amount of immigrants from Europe compared to the ones coming from South America doesn't even compare. European countries aren't even in the Top 10 of immigrants from foreign countries, you could even check that.

If there was so much more opportunity here than in Europe, then why isn't there the same influx of Europeans as there was in the early 20th Century? I'm not denying there are Europeans still coming over here, but it sure as hell no where near the amount it was 100 years ago and why is that? Europeans use to come to this country in search for the "American Dream", with a vast government expansion and coercion on private property that doesn't exist anymore and they can achieve the same thing over there than they could here.

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by Budweiser

Originally Posted by rashi

Why is my statement so absurd? How many millions migrated over here on a boat in the early 20th Century? Did we share more of a border with Europe then?

Your statement is absurd because you said Europeans don't immigrate here because they have more opportunity in Europe. This is a completely irresponsible thing to say. How can you possibly apply your statement to an entire continent? Just because you're not seeing it in your neck of the woods doesn't mean it's not happening. I live in one of the biggest Irish (IRISH IRISH, not St. Paddy's Irish) neighborhoods in the country. Just the other day my buddy got offered 5k to marry a broad. So don't tell me Europeans aren't coming here.

I probably live in the one of th highest immigration areas on the east coast of this country and getting married for money is a huge business here, as a matter of fact my barber just married this Venezuelan chick 2 weeks ago for 15 g's. The amount of immigrants from Europe compared to the ones coming from South America doesn't even compare. European countries aren't even in the Top 10 of immigrants from foreign countries, you could even check that.

If there was so much more opportunity here than in Europe, then why isn't there the same influx of Europeans as there was in the early 20th Century? I'm not denying there are Europeans still coming over here, but it sure as hell no where near the amount it was 100 years ago and why is that? Europeans use to come to this country in search for the "American Dream", with a vast government expansion and coercion on private property that doesn't exist anymore and they can achieve the same thing over there than they could here.

 

[BANLEU]

Targeting "anchor babies" is stupid, because they can't even sponsor their parents until they are at least 21 and even them from what I understand they have to go through all the proper procedures, which includes going back to their country until they are granted citizenship.

 

[BANLEU]

Targeting "anchor babies" is stupid, because they can't even sponsor their parents until they are at least 21 and even them from what I understand they have to go through all the proper procedures, which includes going back to their country until they are granted citizenship.

 

[joe camel smooth]

racial implications aside

should birthright citizenship be allowed? plenty of countries (most i believe) do not implement this policy.