- Jan 30, 2007
- 3,177
- 1,338
2011 NBA MVP Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by CP1708,
- Start date
- Jan 30, 2007
- 3,177
- 1,338
- Feb 12, 2005
- 60,780
- 32,479
- Feb 12, 2005
- 60,780
- 32,479
- Jan 6, 2007
- 1,930
- 54
notsureifsrs...
if you are.....
- Jan 6, 2007
- 1,930
- 54
notsureifsrs...
if you are.....
- Dec 10, 2008
- 11,385
- 31
Yeah and I think his first name is Derrick too...
- Dec 10, 2008
- 11,385
- 31
Yeah and I think his first name is Derrick too...
- Jul 12, 2009
- 2,188
- 13
Nah I think you got the wrong person
- Jul 12, 2009
- 2,188
- 13
Nah I think you got the wrong person
SLP
formerly slp product
- Feb 8, 2005
- 7,464
- 2,569
No question about it....MVP.
SLP
formerly slp product
- Feb 8, 2005
- 7,464
- 2,569
No question about it....MVP.
- Jan 20, 2006
- 17,904
- 800
Charllie used to be fat when he was a shorty and his peoples said he looked like Winnie the Pooh... Pooh stuck
- Jan 20, 2006
- 17,904
- 800
Charllie used to be fat when he was a shorty and his peoples said he looked like Winnie the Pooh... Pooh stuck
- Aug 2, 2006
- 38,112
- 35,920
Dan LeBetard has pretty perfectly summed up the case against Rose.
http://www.miamiherald.co...-bulls-derrick-rose.html
Ah well, logic looses this battle, enjoy the MVP.
http://www.miamiherald.co...-bulls-derrick-rose.html
Ah well, logic looses this battle, enjoy the MVP.
- Aug 2, 2006
- 38,112
- 35,920
Dan LeBetard has pretty perfectly summed up the case against Rose.
http://www.miamiherald.co...-bulls-derrick-rose.html
Ah well, logic looses this battle, enjoy the MVP.
http://www.miamiherald.co...-bulls-derrick-rose.html
Ah well, logic looses this battle, enjoy the MVP.
king x riece
Banned
- Oct 4, 2010
- 6,289
- 10
D'wight Howard.
king x riece
Banned
- Oct 4, 2010
- 6,289
- 10
D'wight Howard.
- Nov 18, 2007
- 28,291
- 9,566
Couldnt agree more (with the article and OKB). Normal stats, advanced stats and logic are thrown out the door because the Bulls are doing better than they were projected to be doing. Oh well. Wouldnt be the first time a point guard took home the MVP that didnt deserve it.
- Nov 18, 2007
- 28,291
- 9,566
Couldnt agree more (with the article and OKB). Normal stats, advanced stats and logic are thrown out the door because the Bulls are doing better than they were projected to be doing. Oh well. Wouldnt be the first time a point guard took home the MVP that didnt deserve it.
- Feb 22, 2001
- 2,509
- 54
He made a huge mistake just a few paragraphs in: "They are essentially the same player, in other words."
Wow...no, they are not. Stats wise, they may be close, but please believe it, they are not the same player. And his silliness with the whole "Hey-I-Didn’t-Expect-The-Bulls-To-Be-Good", can also go for "I didn't think he'd have this type of year" for Westbrook.
Stats are clearly important, but about other basketball variables?
- Feb 22, 2001
- 2,509
- 54
He made a huge mistake just a few paragraphs in: "They are essentially the same player, in other words."
Wow...no, they are not. Stats wise, they may be close, but please believe it, they are not the same player. And his silliness with the whole "Hey-I-Didn’t-Expect-The-Bulls-To-Be-Good", can also go for "I didn't think he'd have this type of year" for Westbrook.
Stats are clearly important, but about other basketball variables?
king x riece
Banned
- Oct 4, 2010
- 6,289
- 10
[h1][/h1]
[h1]For Chicago Bulls’ Derrick Rose, winning alters all numbers[/h1]
Derrick Rose of the Chicago Bulls runs to the court before a game against the Memphis Grizzlies at the United Center on March 25, 2011 in Chicago, Illinois. The Bulls defeated the Grizzlies 99-96.
JONATHAN DANIEL / GETTY IMAGES
[h3]By Dan Le Batard[/h3][h3][email protected][/h3]
These are the numbers/facts without manipulation:
Through Saturday, Player X has averaged 22.1 points on .444 shooting with 4.8 rebounds, 7.1 assists and 1.5 steals. He has been his conference’s player of the week four times.
Player Y has averaged 24.9 points on .439 shooting with 4.2 rebounds, 7.9 assists and 1.0 steals. He has been his conference’s player of the week twice.
They are essentially the same player, in other words. Player X is more efficient and a better rebounder and thief, but Player Y scores one more basket per game. Yet Player X isn’t even considered the most valuable player on his own team. And Player Y is about to be named the most valuable player of the entire league.
Why Y?
Perception is not reality. Reality is reality. Player X (Russell Westbrook) isn’t viewed like Player Y (Derrick Rose) because winning alters all, even facts, even if one team is 53-19 and the other is 47-24. Exceed our expectations, and we’ll give you trophies you don’t deserve instead of admitting that our expectations were, um, wrong.
Rose has thorns
The Bulls’ offense is statistically mediocre; Rose is that offense’s best player. The Bulls’ defense is best in the league; Rose might be that defense’s least important piece. But throw all the ingredients together in the Winning Pot, make a stew with a flavor that surprises us and you, too, can taste like MVP.
Rose benefits from the greatness of his teammates, but Westbrook is harmed by the greatness of his more famous one (Kevin Durant). Would Westbrook be MVP if he simply had Chicago’s defense? Would he be a bigger scorer than Rose if he didn’t have to share with Durant? The only reason Rose scores 2.7 points more than Westbrook per game? He has taken 200 more shots.
They should just rename the MVP trophy The We Didn’t Expect To See Rose Sitting Atop LeBron In The Standings Award.
A million variables go into winning, but baseball is so much better at isolating and measuring those variables than basketball. Felix Hernandez won Cy Young with a 13-12 record in last place because baseball voters understand, after a mathematical paradigm shift called sabermetrics, how much Hernandez can and can’t control. And baseball is an individual sport masquerading as a team sport anyway. Albert Pujols is alone in that batter’s box, and it doesn’t matter if he listens to his manager or likes his third baseman. Hernandez controlled that baseball only when he held it; he couldn’t do anything about how terrible his teammates were at scoring.
Group effort
But basketball’s five are linked like fingers in a fist, and isolating performance is next to impossible, especially on defense. So intangibles get assigned to the winning instead of facts or data, and Rose has in his favor the Hey-I-Didn’t-Expect-The-Bulls-To-Be-Good metric that LeBron or Dwight Howard or Kobe or any of the Spurs or Mavs or Celtics can’t have. It is absurd that he will soon have as many MVPs as Shaquille O’Neal, but not as absurd as Steve Nash having twice as many as Shaq.
The Bulls aren’t exceeding expectations because Rose is a “leader
king x riece
Banned
- Oct 4, 2010
- 6,289
- 10
[h1][/h1]
[h1]For Chicago Bulls’ Derrick Rose, winning alters all numbers[/h1]
Derrick Rose of the Chicago Bulls runs to the court before a game against the Memphis Grizzlies at the United Center on March 25, 2011 in Chicago, Illinois. The Bulls defeated the Grizzlies 99-96.
JONATHAN DANIEL / GETTY IMAGES
[h3]By Dan Le Batard[/h3][h3][email protected][/h3]
These are the numbers/facts without manipulation:
Through Saturday, Player X has averaged 22.1 points on .444 shooting with 4.8 rebounds, 7.1 assists and 1.5 steals. He has been his conference’s player of the week four times.
Player Y has averaged 24.9 points on .439 shooting with 4.2 rebounds, 7.9 assists and 1.0 steals. He has been his conference’s player of the week twice.
They are essentially the same player, in other words. Player X is more efficient and a better rebounder and thief, but Player Y scores one more basket per game. Yet Player X isn’t even considered the most valuable player on his own team. And Player Y is about to be named the most valuable player of the entire league.
Why Y?
Perception is not reality. Reality is reality. Player X (Russell Westbrook) isn’t viewed like Player Y (Derrick Rose) because winning alters all, even facts, even if one team is 53-19 and the other is 47-24. Exceed our expectations, and we’ll give you trophies you don’t deserve instead of admitting that our expectations were, um, wrong.
Rose has thorns
The Bulls’ offense is statistically mediocre; Rose is that offense’s best player. The Bulls’ defense is best in the league; Rose might be that defense’s least important piece. But throw all the ingredients together in the Winning Pot, make a stew with a flavor that surprises us and you, too, can taste like MVP.
Rose benefits from the greatness of his teammates, but Westbrook is harmed by the greatness of his more famous one (Kevin Durant). Would Westbrook be MVP if he simply had Chicago’s defense? Would he be a bigger scorer than Rose if he didn’t have to share with Durant? The only reason Rose scores 2.7 points more than Westbrook per game? He has taken 200 more shots.
They should just rename the MVP trophy The We Didn’t Expect To See Rose Sitting Atop LeBron In The Standings Award.
A million variables go into winning, but baseball is so much better at isolating and measuring those variables than basketball. Felix Hernandez won Cy Young with a 13-12 record in last place because baseball voters understand, after a mathematical paradigm shift called sabermetrics, how much Hernandez can and can’t control. And baseball is an individual sport masquerading as a team sport anyway. Albert Pujols is alone in that batter’s box, and it doesn’t matter if he listens to his manager or likes his third baseman. Hernandez controlled that baseball only when he held it; he couldn’t do anything about how terrible his teammates were at scoring.
Group effort
But basketball’s five are linked like fingers in a fist, and isolating performance is next to impossible, especially on defense. So intangibles get assigned to the winning instead of facts or data, and Rose has in his favor the Hey-I-Didn’t-Expect-The-Bulls-To-Be-Good metric that LeBron or Dwight Howard or Kobe or any of the Spurs or Mavs or Celtics can’t have. It is absurd that he will soon have as many MVPs as Shaquille O’Neal, but not as absurd as Steve Nash having twice as many as Shaq.
The Bulls aren’t exceeding expectations because Rose is a “leader
- Nov 18, 2007
- 28,291
- 9,566
You are 100% correct. They arent the same player. Russell Westbrook plays great defense. Rose plays little.
