2013-2014 NBA Finals - Spurs SMASH Heat 4-1 - San Antonio Spurs NBA Champions [RIP Dwyane Wade]

[darthska]

[quote name="UncleRukus"][QUOTE name="shoeking2101"]
Straight for Cal's mouth[/QUOTE]Cal's a known liar and cheater. Derrick Roses fake test scores ring a bell? I need more than Cal and corrupt John Nash bruh.
[/quote]Only thing... the ONLY THING... that convinces these types is hearing it straight from the horse's mouth. Kobe himself needs to say, "Yeah, I definetly did that."

Even then, dudes would be like, "I mean, of course he's saying that. He knows everyone thinks it, so he's just telling y'all what you want to believe."

 

[shoeking2101]

Slight copout there but it's all good
Ok I'm pulling old head rank bro that's it , u wasnt even potty trained but the way you talking sounds like you witnessed the workouts and provided Gatorade

I've been a basketball fanatic since middle school collected cards and everything, I seriously don't remember Kobe being THE guy coming into his rookie season he just didnt have the necessary media coverage to support that claim brother.

All we had was slam , hoops magazine, and espn so there was no machine behind him to push that it title.

You're speaking as if he was Manziel coming outta high school but it wasnt even close to that.

P would u care to reconsider ? You're actually 4 years older than the guy who started the latest hot topic 5 and nine my goodness.

Age has nothing to do with the facts. Just because the general public didn't have access to Kobe Bryant, doesn't mean he wasn't highly touted. Like I said, A Highschool guard went lotto and essentially top 10. It had never been done before. Jerry west said he was a player for the ages after two workouts. Those are some of the facts with Kobe coming into the league.

That's as close to a can't miss prospect as you can get when you consider the circumstances surrounding Kobe. (Coming out of HS as a guard) People were that high on Kobe man.

That's having "it" to me. When you're a HS guard going lotto and top 10 in 96', you are "it." Period.

 

[unclerukus]

Nothing to do with his point. Before bean it was only big men. Moses malone and kg iirc.

The man clearly says, "Do you know how much buzz you have to have, and how good people must think you are to even be considered to be drafted out of HS, let alone lotto? You have to be pretty close to Can't miss I would believe." Me listing busts has nothing to do with his point? That just refuted the theory that these scouts know what they're talking about or looking at.

Who cares if he is the first guard to be drafted he's not the first high school player to be drafted. Kobe was good he wasn't the "It" guy period. An "It" guy does not fall to 8th or 13th. He would have been the first or second player taken if he was the "It" guy. Jerry West thought he was better than what other people thought but even he didn't know Kobe would be this good. He says as much in Kobe's beyond the glory.

 

[mister friendly]

You said Wade in 2009 was better than any Kobe season because of his PER.

I brought up Robinson's 4th all time PER and what does it mean if PER is basically a be all stat

Robinson was good

Hakeem worked Robinson without any "help" but according to PER, Robinson is the 2nd best center ever

In reality Robinson is probably barely a top 30 player

"Only reason Wade was 3rd in MVP voting was record"

You don't say?

You play to win games not get high PER. Wade wasn't winning in a weak conference. Kobe didn't get the MVP when his team had weak records.

Kobe had his best season for steals when Shaq left

 

[shoeking2101]

The man clearly says, "Do you know how much buzz you have to have, and how good people must think you are to even be considered to be drafted out of HS, let alone lotto? You have to be pretty close to Can't miss I would believe." Me listing busts has nothing to do with his point? That just refuted the theory that these scouts know what they're talking about or looking at.

Who cares if he is the first guard to be drafted he's not the first high school player to be drafted. Kobe was good he wasn't the "It" guy period. An "It" guy does not all to 8th or 13th. He would have been the first or second player taken if he was the "It" guy. Jerry West thought he was better than what other people thought but even he didn't know Kobe would be this good. He says as much in Kobe's beyond the glory.

Bruh look at what I said "do you know how much buzz you have to have..." comment to. It was clearly about Kobe. Are you being serious with that?

And you can't just say "who cares if he is the first guard to be drafted" you can't say that because it's part of why he was it. Bottomline, when you're going top 10 as a HS guard in 96 you are it. Period. You clearly don't understand how big it was for a high schooler to go to the pros, let alone a HS guard. That's serious. For you to say that since he was an 8th pick or a 13th pick which means he wasn't "it" shows a clear dismissal and disregard for the context of the situation.

Jerry didn't know Kobe would be this good? Funny because Jerry said this as well

Jerry West was not the sole Lakers executive who recognized his potential greatness, but he was the only one prepared to risk his reputation on a 17-year-old (now 33). All it took were two workouts — one, really, the second. Defensive demon Michael Cooper had just retired and Bryant “kicked his fanny and didn’t want to stop,” West recounted yesterday. “He wanted more. That’s how competitive he was even then.
“I said ‘the hell with this’. Drafting kids at that time was not in vogue [Timberwolves general manager Kevin McHale had taken a plunge on Kevin Garnett at No. 5 in 1995]. Teams wanted a name, someone who can’t miss, but I knew then and there Kobe was a player for the ages.”

 

[darthska]

In 96, MJ was still playing.

As far as who was next, THAT WAS THE BIG QUESTION.

That single question DOMINATED basketball discussion back then.

There was no unanimous guy; there was no "Oh, definetly Kobe. Once MJ's bored of this whole championship+MVP thing, the league is Kobe's."

No.

Yes, there were people saying that, and people saying Iverson.

And Carter.

And Hill. (Oh, we're pretending that only guards were in the discussion of 'it'?)

And Penny.

And Grandmama.

There was no 'it' as in "That guy! He's the one! Everyone knows it!"

But if you mean 'it' as in "The guy everyone knew would be 'it' out of that draft", no; that was Iverson.

 

[shoeking2101]

In 96, MJ was still playing.

As far as who was next, THAT WAS THE BIG QUESTION.

That single question DOMINATED basketball discussion back then.

There was no unanimous guy; there was no "Oh, definetly Kobe. Once MJ's bored of this whole championship+MVP thing, the league is Kobe's."

No.

Yes, there were people saying that, and people saying Iverson.

And Carter.

And Hill. (Oh, we're pretending that only guards were in the discussion of 'it'?)

And Penny.

And Grandmama.

There was no 'it' as in "That guy! He's the one! Everyone knows it!"

But if you mean 'it' as in "The guy everyone knew would be 'it' out of that draft", no; that was Iverson.

Agreed for the most part. However, it was pretty obvious that they considered Kobe to be close to "it" or "can't miss" as possible considering the context. AI in 96 had the most buzz coming into the draft for sure that year however, the discussion was that Kobe wasn't "it" coming out of HS and into the draft and when you consider context, he absolutely was.

 

[unclerukus]

Bruh look at what I said "do you know how much buzz you have to have..." comment to. It was clearly about Kobe. Are you being serious with that?

And you can't just say "who cares if he is the first guard to be drafted" you can't say that because it's part of why he was it. Bottomline, when you're going top 10 as a HS guard in 96 you are it. Period. You clearly don't understand how big it was for a high schooler to go to the pros, let alone a HS guard. That's serious.

Jerry didn't know Kobe would be this good? Funny because Jerry said this as well

Dude I'm older than you and have been watching and Basketball longer than you how the hell are you going to tell me I don't know how serious it is for a player to be drafted directly out of high school? Of course it's a big deal for anyone of them but that does not mean he was the "It" player of the draft. Ronnie Fields would have been the 1st guard taken out of high school but he got into a car accident. Did you know that? He was rated number 1 above Kobe did you know that? He had the real hype did you know that? He didn't go top 10 he went 13th.

As far as West goes, I knew he loved Kobes game but I could have sworn West side he didn't know Kobe would be this good on his beyond the glory. I'll have to rewatch it now.

 

[hand2handking]

kobe was it 

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

View media item 1039122

kobe was it 

He took it in Colorado though..

 

[dman14]

shaq was the next guy after mj
imo, he just didnt give it his all. there was so much more he couldve accomplished

 

[shoeking2101]

Dude I'm older than you and have been watching and Basketball longer than you how the hell are you going to tell me I don't know how serious it is for a player to be drafted directly out of high school? Of course it's a big deal for anyone of them but that does not mean he was the "It" player of the draft. Ronnie Fields would have been the 1st guard taken out of high school but he got into a car accident. Did you know that? He was rated number 1 above Kobe did you know that? He had the real hype did you know that? He didn't go top 10 he went 13th.

As far as West goes, I knew he loved Kobes game but I could have sworn West side he didn't know Kobe would be this good on his beyond the glory. I'll have to rewatch it now.

Can't do with the hypotheticals so I can't speak on what Ronnie Fields would have been. You have no idea if Ronnie would have went ahead of Kobe. There were a few outlets calling Kobe the best player in the country in 96. Ronnie wasn't the clear cut best prep that year. I absolutely knew who he was though. I'm very well aware of who he was. He along with Bibby and Kobe were 1st team all america in 96. I don't remember the rest of the team though.

At the end of the day, you can't not be "it" going lotto out of HS and out of Cal's mouth he said he was going to take Kobe. Going to take his word for it which would make him top 10.

A HighSchool guard in 96 going top 10 in the NBA draft? How are you not "it" I mean Jerry West identified you as a player for the ages before you set foot in the NBA. That's "it."

 

[shoeking2101]

shaq was the next guy after mj
imo, he just didnt give it his all. there was so much more he couldve accomplished

Shaq was in line to be next after MJ for sure. He wasn't the only one though.

That's not what the primary discussion is about, but I agree. Shaq was for sure primed to be next up after MJ.

 

[victor page]

There was no consensus top player in 1996. 

Kobe, Tim Thomas, and Mike Bibby all took turns as the #1 guy depending on the publication.

The USA Today first team that year was Kobe, Thomas, Bibby, Fields, and Jermaine O'Neal. There was CERTAINLY never any point that Ronnie Fields was the definitive top prospect over all of them. 

 

[shoeking2101]

There was no consensus top player in 1996. 

Kobe, Tim Thomas, and Mike Bibby all took turns as the #1 guy depending on the publication.

The USA Today first team that year was Kobe, Thomas, Bibby, Fields, and Jermaine O'Neal. There was CERTAINLY never any point that Ronnie Fields was the definitive top prospect over all of them. 

Jermaine Oneal and Tim Thomas. There we go. That was the other two players I was forgetting

 

[darthska]

[quote name="shoeking2101"][quote name="DarthSka"]In 96, MJ was still playing.

As far as who was next, THAT WAS THE BIG QUESTION.

That single question DOMINATED basketball discussion back then.

There was no unanimous guy; there was no "Oh, definetly Kobe. Once MJ's bored of this whole championship+MVP thing, the league is Kobe's."

No.

Yes, there were people saying that, and people saying Iverson.

And Carter.

And Hill. (Oh, we're pretending that only guards were in the discussion of 'it'?)

And Penny.

And Grandmama.

There was no 'it' as in "That guy! He's the one! Everyone knows it!"

But if you mean 'it' as in "The guy everyone knew would be 'it' out of that draft", no; that was Iverson.[/quote]

Agreed for the most part. However, it was pretty obvious that they considered Kobe to be close to "it" or "can't miss" as possible considering the context. AI in 96 had the most buzz coming into the draft for sure that year however, the discussion was that Kobe wasn't "it" coming out of HS and into the draft and when you consider context, he absolutely was.[/quote]Sorry for jumping into the discussion, but if that's you're saying, then... yeah, I'm w/ you.

"He's a flashy guard, took Brandy to the prom, and now he's in the dunk contest.*"

Pretty much how I remember him being talked about.

Spoiler

"And some DarthSka character in the 909 can't stand him."

 

[Bert.]

havent heard the name Tim Thomas in YEARS

i liked him for some reason a lil on the suns and the clips

 

[brandon3000]

Kobe was it coming IT coming into the league, period.
If you don't remember it that way no biggie, just means you didn't watch basketball due to age or other obligations

If he was "IT" why the Hornets trade him?


Why wasn't he a top 10 pick?

Because he and his agent engineered him to fall to the Hornets, who would then trade him to the Lakers.

I'm not buying it. I remember 95-96 and Kobe was not thought of as IT or a star prospect going itno the draft.

I do remember the hype surrounding where he'd go to school and his announcement in HS. Dating brandy or taking her to prom or whatever tho

 

[shoeking2101]

I'm not buying it. I remember 95-96 and Kobe was not thought of as IT or a star prospect going itno the draft.

I do remember the hype surrounding where he'd go to school and his announcement in HS. Dating brandy or taking her to prom or whatever tho

If this were the case, he wouldn't have went lotto as a HS guard. There had to be a lot of Buzz and momentum behind Kobe man. How else would he have went 8th 13th?

 

[acemaster193]

Let's wrap this thread up.

 

[victor page]

What exactly does "IT" mean?

Some of ya'll are belittling the fact that he was a lottery pick as a guard out of HS in a time where it wasn't commonplace.

"Oh...he wasn't a top 5 pick...he wasn't considered that good".

Millions of people play basketball. There are 350+ division one colleges. A ton of international prospects. To go 13th out of a possible 58 picks obviously means that he was thought VERY highly of. I don't even know how this is up for debate.

He couldn't have just simply been "decent" and gotten drafted. 

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

Well Michael Jordan was drafted 3 overall, Kobe went 13 and then was traded.

MJ won 6 titles w/ the team that drafted him.

How many did Kobe win the Hornets?

Jordan averaged 28 ppg his rookie yr, kobe didn't even average double digits.

So...

 

[mister friendly]

It wasn't common for high schoolers to get drafted before KG got drafted the year before

But it wasn't common for foreign players to get drafted in the lottery at one point either

Times change and evolve. It doesn't mean Kobe was thought of like some kinda "IT" generational talent

 

[shoeking2101]

It wasn't common for high schoolers to get drafted before KG got drafted the year before

But it wasn't common for foreign players to get drafted in the lottery at one point either

Times change and evolve. It doesn't mean Kobe was thought of like some kinda "IT" generational talent

it kind of does man

 

[a-friend]

But yea, this thread needs a good ol' fashioned closing.
Ain't no finals and ain't no playoffs being discussed anymore

...and oh yea one last thing

Kobe was IT coming out of HS, you either lying or don't know of your saying he wasn't