2015 NY Knicks offseason thread, Los Almighty appreciation thread

JRS lmao i was about to say he shoulda.

Melos got another 3 years with an option though no? Let's just say, because it's very possible this could happen, that the team isn't good in that time? He has no blame in the situation? That's kinda crazy if y'all feel that way...
 
RuffRydya08 said:
^^^ i mean if you aren't behind your team's top 5 pick how can you call yourself a fan?

melo is a unique talent but in terms of guys that are pure gamers, warriors, guys that make no excuses, it's an insult to Ewing to put melo in the same category.

I never heard Ewing say put more talent around me, I don't have enough help, EVER. That guy is and was the ultimate gamer.
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When has Melo said that? When has Melo made excuses? He stayed loyal when he had every reason to leave.

And dont give me any of that bull **** about Melo doesnt want anyone to steal his shine. Melo has been searching for a complimentary star since the day he got here. He just doesnt make excuses and doesnt ***** about it, so then people like you say that he doesnt want anybody to steal his shine. Yet you say that he makes excuses and ****. Your entire argument contradicts itself.

Just remember that Melo came to NY with the idea of forming an elite 1/2 punch with Amare. He didnt come in here expecting the Melo show like it has been. Yet he stayed when he could have left.

Amare was already established and was having not just an all-star, but an MVP-caliber season. Yet Melo gets the blame that Amare fell off the map. 

Then Melo willingly took in and accepted JR as his #2 option because that was all he ******* had. Same thing with Tyson. Melo never stood in the way of any player shining around here except for MAYBE Jeremy Lin, but that is only because he was a fluke scrub all along... And the media still blew that whole thing out of proportion.

Melo just has never had a player alongside him capable of shining. He has never stolen anyone's shine or gotten pissed about teammates getting love from the fans. FOH with that.

Stop labeling Melo into something he is not. How the hell you gonna say Melo wants all the shine for himself yet complains about not having talent around him? How about you toss out examples before spewing some bull **** like that. 
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**** I wish Matt Harvey and Jacob deGrom would come out and say I'm not pitching till you get me some hitting.

I got no problems with people complaining about being surrounded by garbage.
 
Melo didn't want Lin.

Melo didn't want Tyson after Tyson started to air him out in practices, shootarounds and film sessions. How is it that every where Tyson goes everyone says he's a great pro and locker room guy but here he disrupted the chemistry? He just stepped on the toes of the top dog and he wasn't CAA

Melo didn't want THJ traded.

Melo *****ed to Donnie about the Shump pick bc he wanted his boy Selby.

Melo himself is a careful dude. He doesn't make the excuses in a direct way. But when you read stories defending him and saying he's not happy, this and that, that's coming from his camp, his people. Ultimately that's on him.

I know 80% of Knick fans don't agree with this but I just think in time things will play out.
 
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RuffRydya08 said:
^^^ i mean if you aren't behind your team's top 5 pick how can you call yourself a fan?

melo is a unique talent but in terms of guys that are pure gamers, warriors, guys that make no excuses, it's an insult to Ewing to put melo in the same category.

I never heard Ewing say put more talent around me, I don't have enough help, EVER. That guy is and was the ultimate gamer.
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Both you and Gr8 make good points, but as an aside MJ almost came to the rescue when the Bulls looked like they weren't going to pay him what he was worth.
 
I'm open to whatever makes this team a contender. dont really care who it involves, long as theres a legit title chance out of that move. if some great package for melo comes that makes us better great. if not, gotta stay put and take your chances with him.
 
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We have a solid team with great role players right now, but we wont be a contender until we get another all star. Almost every contender has 2 all stars in the lineup.
 
Ballinsam23 said:
We have a solid team with great role players right now, but we wont be a contender until we get another all star. Almost every contender has 2 all stars in the lineup.
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ideal would be adding two more really good players in free agency next year and hopefully Zinger getting to that next level.
 
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RuffRydya08 said:
Melo didn't want Lin.

Melo didn't want Tyson after Tyson started to air him out in practices, shootarounds and film sessions. How is it that every where Tyson goes everyone says he's a great pro and locker room guy but here he disrupted the chemistry? He just stepped on the toes of the top dog and he wasn't CAA

Melo didn't want THJ traded.

Melo *****ed to Donnie about the Shump pick bc he wanted his boy Selby.

Melo himself is a careful dude. He doesn't make the excuses in a direct way. But when you read stories defending him and saying he's not happy, this and that, that's coming from his camp, his people. Ultimately that's on him.

I know 80% of Knick fans don't agree with this but I just think in time things will play out.
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1.

Lin thing was overplayed by the NY media who basically tried to create an absurd "Lin vs. Melo" war as far as who was the face of the Knicks. Some went as far as saying the Knicks should trade Melo and build around Lin, solely because the height of Linsanity occured while Melo was injured, not because of anything Melo said or did.

If Melo didnt want Lin (still an unproven assumption as far as I am concerned) it was because Lin was an overrated bum who drove people against him. Not because Lin was stealing his spot light. MAYBE the spot light thing factored into the equation, but I dont think there is any proof behind that argument. Just speculation. As always.

If Lin was an actual franchise PG, Melo would have gotten behind it in a second. **** he probably would have worn a Linsanity T-Shirt on the ******* sidelines. Melo has always longed for a franchise PG since the day he got here because he ******* needs one to succeed. Melo knows this as well as anyone. Lin just wasnt ever a franchise PG. Not even close.

Melo lobbied for the Knicks to acquire CP3, undoubtedly a franchise PG who arguably would have become the face of the Knicks himself  had we acquired him, as opposed to Melo. Melo even came to NY when it was "STAT's team" with the intention of pairing with him and becoming a dynamic duo, not the Melo show it soon became due to STAT's health.

AI and Chauncey each carried a major spot light themselves away from Melo in Denver, which was clearly Melo's team, and Melo was more than OK with it both times and was a great teammate to them both. Because they made the team better. Particularly Chauncey. 

2.

Totally not buying into the notion that Melo didnt want Tyson. Tyson was the one who wanted out, and Phil Jackson has made it clear that he does not want players who do not want to be here, so he granted his trade request like he has done for others.

But even if that argument held weight it was only after Tyson had completely given up on the Knicks. I mean you talk like Melo and Tyson had some kind of doomed relationship when that couldnt be further from the truth. Melo loved Tyson and Tyson loved Melo. The 2 were great for each other. 

You bring up the season when Tyson basically quit on the entire team, but you fail to mention The 2 great years they played together in which Tyson won DPOY (taking "shine" away from Melo in the process) and then the Knicks won 54 games behind the 2. Melo as the offensive centerpiece, Tyson the defensive centerpiece.

Also think it is pretty telling that Tyson lobbied publicly HARD for Melo to follow him to Dallas last summer when Melo was a free agent. Tyson wanted out of NY for sure, but it was not because of Melo.

I wouldnt by any means say he "stepped on the toes of the top dog," that couldnt be further from the truth. When Tyson was "stepping on the toes" of Melo so to speak, it was when he was playing great and taking shine away from Melo. Which Melo embraced. Because it was when the team was winning.

Tyson left after an abysmal 2014, in which he was in no way a threat to Melo's popularity considering Melo was the only Knick who had a good 2014 season. 

3.

Melo calling up Tim after he got traded and expressing his condolence / saying good bye to his mentee does not indicate that "Melo didnt want THJR traded."

I mean he probably didnt, because they were boys. You never want to say good bye to someone you have built that kind of relationship and I am sure he wished it could have worked out better. But it was not because he is hating on Phil Jackson's agenda like Isola tried to make it out to be.

Any and all talk about Melo not supporting Phil has been pure Isola speculation bull ****. But as it turns out, Melo even texted Porzingis the night of the draft and backed the picks up on IG, pretty much dispelling all the bull **** Isola tried to spin about Melo being pissed about the draft.

Regardless I am not sure what that even has to do with Melo not liking others taking his shine or whatever.

4.

Melo didnt ***** to Donnie about not getting Selby. Again, similarly to Melo and THJR, Melo probably made a case for his boy getting drafted, but where are you getting this whole thing about Melo *****ing and making a fuss.

That couldnt be further from the truth. Melo took Shump in from Day 1 with open arms as one of his own. This dates back to Shump shooting that rap video with a Melo jersey on after his rookie season to Melo keeping in contact with Shump during his Finals run with the Cavs this season.

What an ******* though. What a selfish ******* prick Melo is!!! Dude never even gave Shump a shot because he wanted his BMore boy Selby all along!! You figured it all out.

We might as well blame Melo for Shump not panning out in NY and getting traded for a bag of chips this year. I mean, we blame Melo for literally everything else so why the **** not add that to the list?? 
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Some of yall dudes will hate on anything. Buy into any and all media bull **** and accept it as a proven truth just because it feeds into your own personal hating agenda. You are no better than the Frank Isolas of the world for doing that ****. You feed right into their hand.

Just admit you are a hater and move the **** on. Stop trying to rationalize it all with straight bull ****. 
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imo melo is a guy who at the end of the day is gonna go down as a really good player but someone who never was good enough to be the guy on a championship caliber team. there's nothing wrong with that. i'm just the type of fan who's not gonna slurp dude and give him a free pass because he's a "superstar" - commercials, has a shoe, max level player. from a pure basketball standpoint he's an amazingly gifted scorer but he doesn't impact any other facets of the game like a super star tho.

again, imo when i watch him over the last 3-4 years the guy is a prolific scorer and he's gonna have his moments always but i personally don't think people can say he has no blame in the fact that the organization is still in shambles, and nothing has really changed since he's been here. again that probably is a Dolan issue but I think it's crazy that some of y'all think melo is totally blame free in our struggles. idk if some of you in here are old enough to know but ewing got crucified in the media because he couldn't get the team over the hump. this team had one season 3 years ago but the last 2 years have been a total regression for a variety of reasons not only melo, but i can't give dude a total free pass and say he has no fault in it.

imo he's on the vince carter career path. prolific scorer in his day, culture icon, "super star" and max level type player, but someone who just wasn't good enough or never gonna be good enough to be top dog on a championship caliber team.
 
Melo is a good player but it really is an insult to put him in the same sentence as Ewing. Can't do **** in one of the worst conferences ever.
 
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all i'm gonna say about the melo/tyson thing is this: when they got here, dudes were all in. no doubt about it. but over time, as all teams develop and evolve, guys have to adapt and make some sacrifices to achieve the greater good. when people asked melo to lead more vocally, or to lead more by example. he told people this is what i do. when things went bad woody's last year, tyson tried to get on guys in film and practice bc things were broken. melo took exception whenever tyson singled him out, truth is tyson was airing out guys left and right, not just melo. obviously you can't be doing that and of course that's disrupting chemistry but imo tyson was trying to be a pro and do the right thing in an unfortunate situation.

when i hear something like that it makes me think melo isn't a guy that you want to be your alpha dog.
 
the gr8est the gr8est how is being critical of melo being a hater? just because the knicks have sucked for 15 years means i gotta be desert thirsty for dude ust because he comes to NY with a reputation? we've had one and a half good seasons since he's been here. he has NO blame in that? when we win he's great but when we lose it's not his fault? that's some fan boy stuff.
 
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RuffRydya08 said:
@THE GR8EST how is being critical of melo being a hater? just because the knicks have sucked for 15 years means i gotta be desert thirsty for dude ust because he comes to NY with a reputation? we've had one and a half good seasons since he's been here. he has NO blame in that? when we win he's great but when we lose it's not his fault? that's some fan boy stuff.
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I'm not saying be desert thirsty and I am not saying to give Melo a free pass.

I AM saying to acknowledge the fact that we have put absolute dog **** around him basically since the day he has got here. To accept the fact that there have been winners built around Melo before, and it can be done again. Melo the player hasnt regressed from the 09 Nuggets or the 2013 Knicks, the pieces around him have significantly. Yet Melo always gets this blame. I am not trying to absolve Melo from blame completely, but its like you and others try and place all sorts of **** on him that he doesnt deserve and doesnt control. 

I am also saying to respect the work he has put in here and the loyalty he has shown to this organization, city, and fanbase instead of harboring on every single one of his faults.

And I am ESPECIALLY saying stop hating on Melo for the stupid bull **** that the media tries to spoon feed you like each and every one of the examples that you pointed out before. There is nothing wrong with forming your own opinion. If you dont think Melo is a true superstar or an alpha dog or whatever the **** than thats alright. Thats on you. I wont hate on you for having a difference of opinion than I do. I believe in Melo as a superstar. Thats on me.

But trying to rationalize that hatred using **** like Jeremy Lin and Josh Selby amongst other dumb / media spun examples. Or trying to insinuate that he refuses to give other players shine when he has adamantly tried to recruit new superstars to this team, has been a great all around teammate to everyone on this team since the day he got here besides maybe wack *** Jeremy Lin, and even came here in the first place when it was STAT's ******* team... Is just ******* stupidity.
 
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and melo has no blame that we have dog **** around him? it's not all his fault obviously but he easily could have signed here on a lesser max deal after the lock out. dude forced his way to come to a 7/8 seed in the east, not a top 5 team in the league. he pushed his way out of a situation where he made the playoffs every damn year. think about that for a minute. you honestly believe he did that because he "loves" new york that much? please.
 
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RuffRydya08 said:
and melo has no blame that we have dog **** around him? it's not all his fault obviously but he easily could have signed here on a lesser max deal after the lock out. dude forced his way to come to a 7/8 seed in the east, not a top 5 team in the league. he pushed his way out of a situation where he made the playoffs every damn year. think about that for a minute. you honestly believe he did that because he "loves" new york that much? please.
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So now we are going to hate on Melo for getting paid? Ok now 
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I shouldnt even have to go into this point further. The NBA is a ******* business. Any team with cap space was more than willing to hand out a max deal to Melo. So Melo is wrong for getting the $ he deserves?

Look at the free agency landscape this summer. Players are getting paid wayyyy beyond what they deserve, and this is Ok. It is what they are supposed to do because the NBA is a business and the current market allows for these players to get paid.
 

Melo made it very clear he wanted to play for the Knicks from Day 1 and he has rode it out with us through thick and thin. When he could have left and had other better teams willing to hand him big bucks. Shouldnt that be all the proof you need that he loves NY? Now you are gonna blame him for taking a max deal he literally could have signed anywhere else? FOH.

And just FTR Melo took a pay cut last summer. Albeit it wasnt by much, but taking a 5 year deal was a pay cut in itself. Melo could have easily pulled a Lebron and taken a short term deal with the Knicks or a contender like the Rockets or Bulls and looked to cash in with the new salary cap increase next summer.

One year later and the pay cut Melo took from us last summer is already showing its true colors with the way some of these dudes who arent half of what Melo is are being paid. I mean Tristan ******* Thompson is about to get an $80 million deal. This trend will only continue to transcend as the market prices increase and Melo is still locked into the 5 year contract he willingly took in 2014.

And Melo didnt "force his way to a 7/8 seed" like you say. Melo forced his way to a Knicks team that was on the upturn until Dolan stepped in and botched the deal and played right into Uriji's hands.

But even after the trade (which was Dolan's ******* fault not Melo's) the Knicks still had a lot more potential than the 7/8 seed you say they were in complete hindsight. They just failed miserably to live up to that potential. Everyone besides Melo that is.

Melo didnt expect STAT to fall off like he did. He was willingly joining "STAT's team" with the hope of forming one of the best 1/2 punches in the NBA with him with the hope of competing with the Heat. That would have been far from a 7/8 seed like you said.

And even beyond STAT there were other players who failed to live up to expectations, particularly Landry Fields. When Melo got here Landry was the surprise of the NBA. He led all guards in rebounding, was a good passer, and he had a jump shot. He was well on his way to an All-Rookie season and obviously the Knicks expected he would continue to develop beyond even that. We figured that because he was a 2 guard who would compliment Melo's game well with his unselfish play/passing, in addition to him being a rookie, he was the more preferable player to leave out of the Melo deal (which again, Dolan made) as opposed to Gallo or Mozgov. 

If Landry continued to develop in the way the Knicks and most others thought he would and STAT didnt completely fall off the map, the Knicks could have very well been a contender. However, of the 3, Melo is the only one who has completely lived up to expectations. But Melo should shoulder the balme of STAT and Landry falling off the basketball stratosphere?

No he isnt perfect. No he shouldnt be blameless. But Melo has done all that we asked of him. We just ask him to do so much more now that everyone around him has fallen off the map and the team basically collapsed around him.

Melo is not Lebron. We knew that coming in. He is a far more flawed basketball player. He cant carry a **** team to the playoffs on his back. But he is still great. He is still elite and has proven that time and time again. He is lethal at what he does, and he has lived up to his billing. He shouldnt consistently be held responsible for the incompotence of others. Yet, he always is.

When the Knicks lost to the Celtics in 2012 playoffs, Melo played surrounded by Anthony Carter, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, and Jared Jeffries. Thats no ******* joke. That was an actual lineup we put around Melo in a ******* playoff series. Then the Knicks got Tyson and JR and we improved. Adding Felton and the vets along with Shump's development allowed the Knicks, around Melo, to reach its apex at 54 wins in 2013. 

But then everything ******* collapsed around Melo. Literally ******* everything and everyone besides Melo. Including Tyson. But because Tyson was vocal in the locker room, despite being absolute **** on the court and looking like he quit night in and night out, he gets a pass while Melo des not? Even though Melo was consistently great during the 2014 season? Again, FOH. There is a reason Tyson lobbied publicly for Melo to follow him to Dallas. He wanted out of the Knicks, but he as well as any other respected player who has played with Melo, knows how great he truly is.

The past 2 seasons, he has barely played with any single player worthy of an NBA roster spot. This is the hand he is dealt and yet we continue to place all the fault on Melo. Melo was supposed to be the missing piece to a championship contending roster already built around an MVP-like STAT, not that one good guy on a **** roster. He has lived up to expectations. Others have not.

I'm not trying to say he should be blameless, just that all the fault shouldnt fall on him. Take him for what he is and if you want to pick on him, pick on his actual faults. However he shouldnt be blamed for things he can not control, being a player he is not, taking too much $ like every other NBA player ******* does, or some dumb *** media spun assassinations of his character you willingly buy into.

Melo came here, he has rode it out with all of us even through the tough times. Even when he had a way out. He has left everything on the court at all times, and has lived up to the billing of who he is as a player. Again, he isnt perfect, but I really cant ask for much more than that as a Knicks fan. Melo has done his part, we just need to find him some ******* help.

I'm done with this argument. I ******* hate repeating myself despite how often I do so.  If you want more from me read the article I wrote on JRS blog. If you want to rebuff anything I said then I will respond. 
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http://g42sports.com/new-york-state-mind/

EDIT:

Sidenote: Using your argument, which is only true in hindsight, but whatever. Idk how else you CAN rationalize Melo leaving a perennial playoff team in Denver for a 7/8 seed in NY besides his "love" for NY. 
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People talking about Tyson Chandler must not have seen him mail it in his last season with us.

He was always missing games due to mysterious illness and put forth ZERO effort, at the time I was surpised Phil was able to get anything for him and fatboy but now the trade looks worse in hindsight because Denver was able to land two firsts for Mozgod but i'm still glad that bum was shipped out when he was. Like that article said, Phil doesn't want any players here that don't want to be here and are disruptive which I applaud because that is the first step to making a winner is changing the culture and this team has had a losing culture for far too long.
 
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