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yea... i feel you... diamonds look nice... but we HAVE been tricked into thinking they were end all be all jewelry selection...
A Diamond is Forever...or is it?... DeBeers got ya'll again!
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by sillyputty,
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You missed what he meant by purpose, u cut his sentence, you need something to hold your money, id... so its ok if you splurge on a purse or wallet.
You need a car so its ok if you get an expensive car.
But you dont need a pair of earrings or a neckless.
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I can only speak for myself but looking nice isn't enough to justify their price point. Their extremely hard and yet we rarely utilize it. In fact, the only time I've heard of diamonds being used for anything other then jewelry is to cut diamonds. My thing is, people accept the price point because someone else placed a value to it just because it looks good.
Edit: Never read the text or video in the Op. Gotta get on that.
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There's a lot of things we don't need, if you want to go down that road. That argument means absolutely nothing.
sillyputty
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This is why its depressing to kinda be me at times...I seriously can't justify much of anything that we do...
It gets mentally taxing at times.
Everything means nothing except what we MAKE it mean...so outside of understanding how things work and how to manipulate them then everything else is just BS we've made up.
We could go down the epistemological rabbit hole and justify every action and thought in a sort of decarte (rationalism) vs diderot(empiricism) debate ...but thats just a can of worms.
All I mean to say is that, these things, really aren't that special when you look at it.
Diamonds are really tough...but they're not unique. Everything has its pros and cons...the universe is rather inhospitable towards certain things and we could stand to learn to humble ourselves instead of thinking our views are "supreme"
The only thing i've been able to come to terms with thus far is that which allows us to live longer OR to make us feel better. Almost a utilitarian approach. Everything else just kinda falls in with those two. I.e. the benefit of Scientific advancement and its implementation; or the development of a social system of ethics.
My main point is that I think you should be free to assign beliefs or thoughts to anything you want or to make your own rituals and customs...just don't go blindly into them without knowing about them.
People can't function without feeling like they have a meaning in their lives, even though they really don't,
Here is somewhat of an explanation of a lot of what I'm getting regarding existentialism:
*shrug*
Nothing matters...and we know it...so go make your own meaning...even though the meaning you make up, really means nothing.
At this point, you're just a skin bag of complex chemistry that we're learning more about...
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Im not going down that extremely loooooooong road, just wanted to clarify what he was saying.
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So everything means nothing. Profound.
Isn't that what life is for? To find meaning? In family, causes, money, friends, experiences, knowledge, objects, etc? My Dad probably means nothing to you. But he does mean something to me.
I'm sorry. This is making absolutely zero sense to me. Obviously nothing material or tangible has intrinsic meaning. How could it? It's your job to find or not find meaning in it, not for it to tell you (agency).
Edit:"People can't function without feeling like they have a meaning in their lives, even though they really don't"
How presumptuous. They don't? To who? You? And that's who they were living for, right? You. Not themselves. Not their loved ones. Not their ideals. For you.
Isn't that what life is for? To find meaning? In family, causes, money, friends, experiences, knowledge, objects, etc? My Dad probably means nothing to you. But he does mean something to me.
I'm sorry. This is making absolutely zero sense to me. Obviously nothing material or tangible has intrinsic meaning. How could it? It's your job to find or not find meaning in it, not for it to tell you (agency).
Edit:"People can't function without feeling like they have a meaning in their lives, even though they really don't"
How presumptuous. They don't? To who? You? And that's who they were living for, right? You. Not themselves. Not their loved ones. Not their ideals. For you.
sillyputty
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Uh...not really.
Thats just what YOU choose to do with your life...thats the point.
There is no meaning. Everything is just made up and influenced and reinforced by other people...some of the stuff they comes up sticks around and the some of it dies off. Even if you find "meaning" in it...it doesn't matter.
Giving a clear carbon rock called a "diamond" the social and cultural pass of being a necessary item to represent your devotion to another person doesn't make it more reasonable or literal entity...No matter how many people believe it or force you to accept it.
You're not getting the point.
People are free to add their own "meaning" in life...whether it be to understand DNA reverse-transcriptase and endonucleases OR to sit around smoking pot eating cereal...whatever you want to do...
But at the end of the day, the MEANING you add to your life, is essentially empty of literal meaning. No matter how "important" you make it.
People like to feel busy...and of course there are certain things we've accepted as being pressing like getting money to spend in our society to get us things to help us stay healthy and live longer...but ultimately those things themselves don't matter. Some of us are burdened by the dependency of others on us...but again, that "Meaning" we add to our lives, doesn't matter.
Wanting something to be true, doesn't make it true.
Thats the point.
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im surprised most people dont know this by now, all of the importance placed on diamonds and no one ever researches why its so valuable? its funny because one random argument at work and i found out all this stuff in rebuttle to a coworkers claim that diamonds are rare, not to mention my chemistry profs love to devalue diamonds' worth
i still like the way they sparkle tho and they are hard as a mofo
one thing though, there must be different grades of cubic zirconia though because i couldnt break my moms diamond with a sledgehammer but i broke my brothers cubic with a common hammer, is this study trying to put value on cubics lowkey or are there different grades?
i still like the way they sparkle tho and they are hard as a mofo
one thing though, there must be different grades of cubic zirconia though because i couldnt break my moms diamond with a sledgehammer but i broke my brothers cubic with a common hammer, is this study trying to put value on cubics lowkey or are there different grades?
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Yea, I choose. That is the point. I, not you. I, not you. I choose whatever social contracts I wanted to participate in, not you. If my choice was limited already, so what? Everyone's was so that doesn't matter. No one is born with complete free will and outside of organized society. I still fail to see your point. Everything means nothing. Okay, Meursault. Nothing matters in the grand scheme of things? Duh. How could it? The grand scheme is not next door. It's beyond us. So what's left? Us and what we make of ourselves.
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Wait....so nothing matters?
SWEET!
In that case, I'm smoking pot and eating cereal all year!
SWEET!
In that case, I'm smoking pot and eating cereal all year!
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...you should too...
sillyputty
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And there in-lies the point.
No one said you had to do what I do...in fact, I hope you don't...
But...
You basically admit that you "MAKE" all this up AND you're aware of it...yet you still choose to.
Its when you're aware of the context that there is no absolute meaning that the philosophical problem arises...
You know diamonds are essentially worthless...but you still choose to honor their value.
Thats inconsistent.
No one is going to stop you from adding your own meaning to life...whether thats wearing a suit to work, getting married, shaking peoples hands, or stoning virgins...
But there is an ultimate paradigm that arises once you're ultimately aware that you have created everything you hold dear from nothing...and none of it matters.
Diamonds included.
Because believing that remarkably ordinary rocks of crystalized carbon (which eventually turn into coal) are a girls best friend IS NOT vain and self-serving?
Oh ok.
Go ahead.Originally Posted by illphillip
Wait....so nothing matters?
SWEET!
In that case, I'm smoking pot and eating cereal all year!
No one is stopping you from doing so because thats what you choose to value.
Sarcasm aside, if you took the time to step beside yourself and evaluate why a green piece of paper gets you excited more than simply existing then you might be able to assess the priorities you have in your life.
That gold disc you have from artists you work with? Pointless.
That social pat on the back of reassurance? Pointless.
You give things their meaning...nothing has that meaning intrinsically.
In an alternate view of the world it might be everyone's goal to sit in their PJs watching cartoons. And thats just fine...thats what gives THEIR lives meaning.
Its funny that the same people who defend the value of material goods and the concept of the social structures behind them also seem to be perfectly content in pursuing things that really do nothing than serve as distractions to take up spans of time between us being asleep.
I admittedly am forced to participate in the rat race too... There are things I have to do that I don't understand and really make no sense but we do them to get ahead in a society that existed long before we did...
HOWEVER...my goal is to understand AND be aware of those pressures and influences that often go un-researched or investigated...
No one can fool you if they can't close your eyes.
EDIT:
You're not getting it.
You like the way they look.
That is value YOU ADDED... they don't intrinsically look good. They're merely appealing to your range of visual acuity. For example some animals can see more UV light and others can see more infrared light. So do they view it the same way that you do? Probably not.
The point is, even if you like something, the value you give it, is ultimately empty. Others may reinforce that assumed value and attempt to issue trades or institute organizations around those things, like diamonds, but the basis for it all is meaningless. Its merely something with which we have conspired to make important.
They aren't intrinsically important, no matter how much you are drawn to them.
Scientific understanding of things like diamonds diminishes their value because we no longer see them as alluring and mysterious entities...we know how to make them and we know their weaknesses. We know more about them than we ever have. We know the cost of human productivity in acquiring them. We also know WHY we like them...and to us, that brings down the value of these seemingly intriguing stones.
Its like this...if I told you how love and attraction works through a mystifed story of legends and spiritual origins you would be enthralled to feel that way...but when I break down the chemical and neurological substrates involved like oxytocin or dopamine receptors, that allure and mystery falls away...Something that was so vague and unexplainable is now rudimentary and mainstream...To some people, they stop feeling like they're in love the more they learn about it. They know it isn't real, but merely a reaction. It doesn't mean you love that person any less, you just know WHY you love them...and that hurts some people to realize.
Thats the same thing with diamonds.
Whatever you think about it good or bad, doesnt matter.
Its just a rock.
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How are they worthless? When did I say that? I've said they look nice to me the whole thread. That's value enough to me. Yes, the way the light hits a diamond is value to me. I don't know the prices and that would change my perception of a diamond's value.
Make what up? What do I make up? What I find meaningful in life? What are you talking about?
Make what up? What do I make up? What I find meaningful in life? What are you talking about?
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Because believing that remarkably ordinary rocks of crystalized carbon (which eventually turn into coal) are a girls best friend IS NOT vain and self-serving?
Oh ok.
You're all over this forum frontin like you know everything and your grand conclusion is that "nothing has any meaning"? That's really profound but what is your endgame in proving that this realm we live in means nothing? You have attacked almost every idea/belief that people hold dear in life, for what? You have no better alternative other than just existing...
Some people live for God others live for their family/marriage... some people live for themselves... but I am sure this nihilistic gospel you're spreading brings beaucoup fulfillment in your life
sillyputty
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You're all over this forum frontin like you know everything and your grand conclusion is that "nothing has any meaning"? That's really profound but what is your endgame in proving that this realm we live in means nothing? You have attacked almost every idea/belief that people hold dear in life, for what? You have no better alternative other than just existing...
Some people live for God others live for their family/marriage... some people live for themselves... but I am sure this nihilistic gospel you're spreading brings beaucoup fulfillment in your life
Isn't that enough?
Isn't that better than making up fairy tales about things that people want to happen after they die or come up with ludicrous stories about origins instead of taking the time to answer these already difficult questions with empirical inquiry? To collect evidence and make reasonable assertions? To not make assumptions beyond that which we can reliably substantiate?
I don't know everything, I just know what I don't know...we can't figure the real questions out if we're satisfied with answers that don't get us any closer to learning more.
BTW, I'm not "frontin like I know everything."...Its you that assert that I feel that way. If the perceived confidence in the consistency of my answers leads you to conclude that, then thats on YOU...not me.
Lets play a game and you tell me where i'm wrong/mistaken or you have a problem with.
Do you like diamonds and why or why not?
Do diamonds mean anything to you?
What is a social norm practiced in another part of the world that you don't practice, and why do you not practice it?
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All i can think is "the walls of text".
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In witnessing what often ensues when sillyputty posts, I have assumed that his main purpose is to challenge your thought process and your beliefs by providing factual evidence that sheds light on some of the lesser known realities about the world we live in. I've never seen him refute anything that had scientific and factual backing. I have, however, seen him refute the beliefs that many hold true and dear to their hearts, which has in turn caused a lot of turmoil between him and the General forum at large.
To be honest, I usually find myself siding with sillyputty, even though I choose not to post in his defense. Life has taught me that people like sillyputty don't need people to act in their defense, as they often take refuge in their own philosophy once society has exiled them for thinking differently. Many of you have to realize that you are all entitled to your own beliefs, but you are not entitled to your own facts, and thus stop taking it so personally when someone like sillyputty comes around and shares their beliefs about a subject that no one really knows the answers to... whether it be the meaning of life, the existence of a benevolent creator, or what have you...
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It's enough for you... and you want others to feel like their life's mean nothing other than just being... at the end of the day your "empirical inquiry" means nothing and is based on observations made in this realm that really don't allow you to think outside of the box... like Steve Jobs said about Bill Gates maybe you should "drop acid or go on an ashram"
(Why do you like typing "YOU" in all caps
Do I like Diamonds? Yeah I like how they look but they are on the bottom of the totem pole as far as my priorities go... on a day to day they provide me no utility so I would not spend major bucks on them for myself. I also realize that $ isn't "real" so I have no problem using those numbers in my bank account to make my Gal smile (emotions are real deal Holyfield)
Do Diamonds mean anything to me? No. But us humans are social beings so I have to acknowledge that they are universally valued by most people... artificial or not this is the world we live in... if you can succeed in convincing the rest of the world that diamonds are overrated, it'd be no sweat off my back
Social norms I don't practice? I believe in certain parts of South america they have Siesta after lunch... I don't practice this b/c my boss would give me illest
devildog1776
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deBeers hoards vaults of diamonds worldwide to keep prices high. diamonds are rare nor that dope. i have more gold in my jewelry box than diamonds. the prices are so marked up that the regular dealers see 100 to 200 percent profit on every diamond sold...
go down to the diamond district and the starting price on something dope could be 7 Gs if you had cash you could drop 3 on the counter and itll be yours if it mostly diamonds that the piece is valued off off
go down to the diamond district and the starting price on something dope could be 7 Gs if you had cash you could drop 3 on the counter and itll be yours if it mostly diamonds that the piece is valued off off
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not tryin to send shots but you might want to get another girl if your bank account gives your girl a smile, and by the emphasis you put on emotions im assuming it makes her very happy, or if you make her smile by using the numbers in your bank account (buying her stuff)Originally Posted by 0cks
It's enough for you... and you want others to feel like their life's mean nothing other than just being... at the end of the day your "empirical inquiry" means nothing and is based on observations made in this realm that really don't allow you to think outside of the box... like Steve Jobs said about Bill Gates maybe you should "drop acid or go on an ashram"
(Why do you like typing "YOU" in all caps%@@ cracks me up)
Do I like Diamonds? Yeah I like how they look but they are on the bottom of the totem pole as far as my priorities go... on a day to day they provide me no utility so I would not spend major bucks on them for myself. I also realize that $ isn't "real" so I have no problem using those numbers in my bank account to make my Gal smile (emotions are real deal Holyfield)
Do Diamonds mean anything to me? No. But us humans are social beings so I have to acknowledge that they are universally valued by most people... artificial or not this is the world we live in... if you can succeed in convincing the rest of the world that diamonds are overrated, it'd be no sweat off my back
Social norms I don't practice? I believe in certain parts of South america they have Siesta after lunch... I don't practice this b/c my boss would give me illestif I tried that...we are all products of our environments and the best thing we can do is accept that and accept each other
but i feel both sides
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D. Colored diamonds >>
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wait, are you saying you can buy something with a 7k price tag for only 3k? or are you talking about 3k down for financing? if you mean the first one thats a huge price drop
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:
this thread interests me. p4l.
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word to OP. just spent mad $$$ on my girl's E-ring. saved like 1.5 years for it! lol