Abolish the Welfare System in America Vol. Mature Discussion

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

see im a hard worker single parent and i am super proud to say that i have never needed anything from anyone granted i have amazing parents and family so ive been ok i know that not everyone has it good and i dont mind helping people who really truly deserve it but i DO have a problem with having my hard earned cash taken away to help people who sit on their *** all day long and live off the freaking gov! for example i work in a pretty ghetto part of upstate ny and i walked into a rite aid and there was this lady in front of me paying for coffee with her Ebt card and was making a big fuss on paying taxes but then pulled out her debit card to pay for her 36 pack with no problem on the price and it made me mad like you need help buying ****** food but you can afford beer get the **** out of here! thats the type of **** that is wrong with this ******g country there is way too many people abusing the system!..sorry for the rant but that **** really bothers me! 

About 8 cents of every dollar you pay uncle sam in taxes goes towards these programs. So if you think most of your tax money is being wasted on those abusing gov't assistance you're sadly mistaken.

 

[rashi]

Just be honest. You guys have a mob mentality against the poor and you have been politically polarized on nonsensical rhetoric. You honestly have no idea where your money goes. You are just carrying water for pundits on behalf of people who wish to rob these programs and save on contributing to them.

You can say that the other way also. Fact is that majority of the people in this country want their Medicare and Social Security even know they have no clue that there is NO ACTUAL SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND, Supreme Court acknowledged this in the 1930's, see supreme court case Helvering v. Davis.


As far as not knowing where the money goes, apparently the government doesn't know either...


Grace Commission

The Grace Commission Report[3] was presented to Congress in January 1984. The report claimed that if its recommendations were followed, $424 billion could be saved in three years, rising to $1.9 trillion per year by the year 2000. It estimated that the national debt, without these reforms, would rise to $13 trillion by the year 2000, while with the reforms they projected it would rise to only $2.5 trillion.[4] Congress ignored the commission's report. The debt reached $5.8 trillion in the year 2000.[5][6] The national debt reached 13 trillion after the subprime mortgage-collateralized debt obligation crisis in 2008.
The report said that one-third of all income taxes are consumed by waste and inefficiency in the federal government, and another one-third escapes collection owing to the underground economy. “With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."[4]


And really it doesn't even matter because with a computerized printing press, the inflation alone kills the Middle Class anyway.

In this country, there are 2 classes: Welfare Class and Middle Class. The Welfare Class includes the uber wealthy elites who receive governments benefits more than the poor that control every aspect of this very government and the poor, which outnumber the Middle Class, who get pandered to and are told the Middle Class exploits them ,ect., ect., ect.. Which leaves the Middle Class, who make just enough to pay the majority of taxes and not too much to pay off accountants and invest enough money to live off of dividends. So in a sense, the Middle Class pays State taxes in the States that have an income tax, they pay a Federal Tax, then they pay a capital gains tax. So the poor pays any of the 3 and the wealthy only pays capital gains. So who loses?


Also, for the people who want a 91% tax again on the wealthy.

View media item 165371


This graph represents the Effective Tax Rate for the 1%. Notice where the Top Rate was and how much they actually paid.

 

[brockbo]

I don't think it should abolished but it's deffinatily think it need reform. I understand that there are people in the country who need help but there are others who are just lazy and don't want to work and collect a check. Drug testing should be mandatory because if your on welfare you shouldn't be getting high. That's the only problem I have towards my tax $$$, people who don't deserve it.

 

[wr]

^ great post and repped. This is exactly what I was referring to in an earlier post.

We are victims of a system were the people at the top play both ends and leave the public confuse yet give them the ultimatum that they have to pick a side.

 

[shoelyesses]

I don't think it should abolished but it's deffinatily think it need reform. I understand that there are people in the country who need help but there are others who are just lazy and don't want to work and collect a check. Drug testing should be mandatory because if your on welfare you shouldn't be getting high. That's the only problem I have towards my tax $$$, people who don't deserve it.

they do drug testing... and its not like a large part of the community who recieve said benefits use drugs... now if they really wanted to envoke change... accountability should be involved... like how banks are... see where the purcahses are being made... and what the purchases are... this would solve a ton of problems... the high rising obesity rate among children.... amongst other things... and like i said if not working this ppl should be contributing to society in some form of capacity....

this whole i can go to school and have 1,000's of trades... and keep re upping on benefits by popping out more kids system is lame... And again parenting/life skills courses should be mandatory...

And hell funny thing about the whole drug thing is... while they do it in many states... ppl get around/beat employment drug test... you dont think they would do the same for govt.. assistance test?

 

[Hunnynutcheerios]

i dont care if its one cent why should i have to pay anything for people to sit on their *** and do nothing and collect money while i bust my *** ****** **** that

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

i dont care if its one cent why should i have to pay anything for people to sit on their *** and do nothing and collect money while i bust my *** ****** **** that

There are a hundred other more things the gov't spends your tax money on you should be angry over, but clearly you're not that intelligent so I won't waste my time explaining.

 

[Master Zik]

i dont care if its one cent why should i have to pay anything for people to sit on their *** and do nothing and collect money while i bust my *** ****** **** that

It's the American way.

 

[shoelyesses]

There are a hundred other more things the gov't spends your tax money on you should be angry over, but clearly you're not that intelligent so I won't waste my time explaining.

lol hell they have spent more tax dollars on pushing drugs in these said lazy sorry ppl communities then they have on govt.. funding to help them... hell as shown earlier we spend more on a pointless war (well a falsified reason for war... and no im not anti american i am a veteran infact) hell on kick backs to help aid large corporations then we do the so called lazy, sorry ppl.

 

[nom de guerre]

corporate welfare is the REAL problem.. not folks struggling to get by on what little they have.

Trust me this country has way bigger problems on its agenda. Attacking people on assistance is just a ploy by the powerful to keep people from looking past all the bull**** that they have gotten away with for years.

 

[beh235]

I don't think NT is the place to have this discussion.

This. Plus, I think people's idea of welfare is skewed. They need to dig a little deeper and find out the truth about it.

 

[wr]

They spend more of your tax dollars on locking people up. The amount of money spent per prisoner in this country could have given everyone a full ride scholarship to their out of state college of choice lol.

They spend your tax money on clandestine operations you don't know about. They use government resources to traffic weapons and narcotics to criminal organizations.

Just like the thread Rashi just made, we give militias guns and money one month, turn around and declare war on them all with "your tax dollars".

The irony of you people. You're just fine with your tax dollars killing people in droves. but when just a smidgen of that goes to helping someone that's alive you nag like a wife.

 

[mrdozo]

Welfare should not be abolished, but it certainly needs to be watched more closely. I work in real estate and have seen first-hand many tenants who receive welfare checks and abatements for rent, meanwhile they have name brand clothing, 1 or 2 cars, real gold on them. How can they afford better clothes and expensive jewelry while the average receipient is supposed to earn under $25,000 annually?

NYC especially needs to monitor who receives subsidy, whether its from NYCHA, HPD or any other, there's HUNDREDS of scammers on there receiveing free money illegaly.

 

[rashi]

Welfare should not be abolished, but it certainly needs to be watched more closely

Yeah right. Any calls for this and you get called a racist, because it is the media that will lead you to believe that Blacks make up the majority of people receiving Welfare in the first place.

The only way the system really get reformed is if the entire system collapses entirely and if the Middle Class finally realize that it is they who are getting screwed. Otherwise it wont.

 

[mrdozo]

Yeah right. Any calls for this and you get called a racist, because it is the media that will lead you to believe that Blacks make up the majority of people receiving Welfare in the first place.
The only way the system really get reformed is if the entire system collapses entirely and if the Middle Class finally realize that it is they who are getting screwed. Otherwise it wont.

The media? Who cares. The country or state can simply claim they are looking to cut spending and commence investigation. It doesnt have to be a racial issue. Rather a financial issue.

 

[shoelyesses]

Welfare should not be abolished, but it certainly needs to be watched more closely. I work in real estate and have seen first-hand many tenants who receive welfare checks and abatements for rent, meanwhile they have name brand clothing, 1 or 2 cars, real gold on them. How can they afford better clothes and expensive jewelry while the average receipient is supposed to earn under $25,000 annually?
NYC especially needs to monitor who receives subsidy, whether its from NYCHA, HPD or any other, there's HUNDREDS of scammers on there receiveing free money illegaly.

maybe true but as was posted..... im pretty sure those hundreds of tennats dont even put a dent... into what is paid out to help the needy, struggling WALMART.... what was it that they get in terms of govt kickbacks that we pay in form of taxes in the 100's of millions billions.... So the chick in the hood who milks the govt.. for a few hundred a week and its off with her head... the corp.... that milks the govt for a few millions a month and its all good for society...

 

[rashi]

The media? Who cares. The country or state can simply claim they are looking to cut spending and commence investigation. It doesnt have to be a racial issue. Rather a financial issue.

Republicans have been calling for "reforming" Welfare, but get called racists. Democrats have called for reduction in defense spending and get criticized for being "unpatriotic". You can't ignore the media and the propaganda machine.

It apparent that the country's economy is in dog poop, and both sides are looking to make "cuts" in spending (though they really aren't, and never really cut anything). The media is the arm that turns people against each other saying group A is going to stop receiving X and it is group B's fault.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

maybe true but as was posted..... im pretty sure those hundreds of tennats dont even put a dent... into what is paid out to help the needy, struggling WALMART.... what was it that they get in terms of govt kickbacks that we pay in form of taxes in the 100's of millions billions.... So the chick in the hood who milks the govt.. for a few hundred a week and its off with her head... the corp.... that milks the govt for a few millions a month and its all good for society...

Or how about to rich and upper-class who also get gov't "welfare". But no lets focus on the poor people who at most are getting the gov't for 10K a year

Gov't assistance fraud isn't nearly as high a percentage as y'all think, the ignorant people who do abuse it just usually happen to be the loudest.

 

[49erholic]

dudes pushing nice whips while living in housing smh

 

[shoelyesses]

Or how about to rich and upper-class who also get gov't "welfare". But no lets focus on the poor people who at most are getting the gov't for 10K a year

Gov't assistance fraud isn't nearly as high a percentage as y'all think, the ignorant people who do abuse it just usually happen to be the loudest.

exactly its like stealing i dont advocate it... but i would be perplexed if a person got all pissed that someone stole 5 bucks out of their wallet... and somehow was fine with and had no problem with someone going online and cleaning out their bank account.

 

[bigrockford]

Most of our system needs to be updated. I wouldn't say get rid of it completely but it needs to be harder to obtain and hard to keep. You should only be able to get it if you have a disability or children. And if you continue to have children while on it you should be forced to give your children up for adoption. I know drug dealers who make more than a lot of people a year and they never buy groceries with their money because they get Gov assistance

 

[fantastic4our]

I don't think it should abolished but it's deffinatily think it need reform. I understand that there are people in the country who need help but there are others who are just lazy and don't want to work and collect a check. Drug testing should be mandatory because if your on welfare you shouldn't be getting high. That's the only problem I have towards my tax $$$, people who don't deserve it.

Another common misconception. "Oh noez the poors are using my hard earned tax dollars to get high!"

Drug testing was (still might actually) done in Florida. Recipients had to use their money for the random drug tests and if they came back negative, then they were refunded.

The results...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0

No Savings Are Found From Welfare Drug Tests
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
Published: April 17, 2012


MIAMI — Ushered in amid promises that it would save taxpayers money and deter drug users, a Florida law requiring drug tests for people who seek welfare benefits resulted in no direct savings, snared few drug users and had no effect on the number of applications, according to recently released state data.

“Many states are considering following Florida’s example, and the new data from the state shows they shouldn’t,” said Derek Newton, communications director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, which sued the state last year to stop the testing and recently obtained the documents. “Not only is it unconstitutional and an invasion of privacy, but it doesn’t save money, as was proposed.”

This week, Georgia instituted a nearly identical law, with supporters saying it would foster greater personal responsibility and save money. As in Florida, the law is expected to draw a legal challenge. The Southern Center for Human Rights, based in Atlanta, said it expected to file a lawsuit once the law takes effect in the next several months. A number of other states are considering similar bills.

The Florida civil liberties group sued the state last year, arguing that the law constituted an “unreasonable search” by the government, a violation of the Fourth Amendment. In issuing a temporary injunction in October, Judge Mary S. Scriven of Federal District Court scolded lawmakers and said the law “appears likely to be deemed a constitutional infringement.”

From July through October in Florida — the four months when testing took place before Judge Scriven’s order — 2.6 percent of the state’s cash assistance applicants failed the drug test, or 108 of 4,086, according to the figures from the state obtained by the group. The most common reason was marijuana use. An additional 40 people canceled the tests without taking them.

Because the Florida law requires that applicants who pass the test be reimbursed for the cost, an average of $30, the cost to the state was $118,140. This is more than would have been paid out in benefits to the people who failed the test, Mr. Newton said.

As a result, the testing cost the government an extra $45,780, he said.

And the testing did not have the effect some predicted. An internal document about Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF, caseloads stated that the drug testing policy, at least from July through September, did not lead to fewer cases.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I'm mad because I live a responsible life and I am held accountable for my actions.

I pay all my bills on time. I pay all my credit cards on time. Pay rent/mortgage. I go to work on time. I am productive law abiding citizen. Car notes paid for.


but yet the lazy unedcauted non working individuals that have so many kids out of wedlock are rewarded....


Yes... I don't care if its 3 cents or 13 cents out of every dollar I make, is given to lazy people who dont work and have kids....That still adds up....and the fact when my check is looking light, and I'm like where is my money going....to jobless lazy uneducated people who have out of wedlock kids..

it angers me a bit...

forget about....trying to investigate or find out who is doing the welfare abuse...just abolish it completely.....and thats how you take care of it.

and those same people who used to be on welfare are going to be putting a gun to your head and robbing you.

You think there won't consequences to shutting down welfare and everybody is just going to magically find a job right?

Must be nice living in that bubble.

 

[bossjin]

Why am I being taxed and money taken out my paycheck for a being a responsible hard working productive member to society that contributes...

and the lazy, school drop outs, who dont get jobs and never work, have a bunch of kids....get a free ride?

the lazy welfare people should be kept away from the polls to vote!

how are you making decisions on my country? when you don't work?

im tired of looking after other people's snot noses....close your legs...dont work, don't have money, babydaddy not around...dont have kids

totally agree, i  work to give u money lol. Nobody gives me ****

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Just be honest. You guys have a mob mentality against the poor and you have been politically polarized on nonsensical rhetoric. You honestly have no idea where your money goes. You are just carrying water for pundits on behalf of people who wish to rob these programs and save on contributing to them.

/thread