Another Religious Thread: If God is All-good, All-powerful, and All-knowing...

[prostaffer]

Originally Posted by ACE BOMBER

Originally Posted by Prostaffer

Galvelocity wrote:

i'd rather die believing in god and finding out he doesn't exist instead of choosing not to believe in him only to find out i'm wrong when i meet him.

With all the religions you have as options, your chances are PRETTY slim that the one you chose is the right one. Your odds are barely better than those of an atheist. One might even argue that a rival God would be more pleased with us for choosing to believe in nothing instead of one of his imitators.

I think in the end it won't be what/who you followed. I think the big guy will ask "what did you do with your to help/harm other people? Did you leave the earth a better place after you had existed in it?"

Not to sound like a %*#+ but wouldn't that also apply for people not believing in him/her? In an earlier post you said that you would rather believe and end up being wrong than not believing and end up being wrong. I can't help but assume you were referring to being judged in the afterlife? If so, then the statement I put in bold somewhat contradicts your previous one... Not that I'm against your religion, the statement didn't just add up to me.


You make an excellent point. Let me say i'm not out to make anyone believe in god. It's your choice. I don't want to cram anythingdown anyones throat. When i said my first quote it was merely personal. Not meant to convince someone that God should be believed in.

Let me do me, I'm a let you do you. I just wonder about people who feel the need to denounce God and his existence. In my opinion the same people who arelooking down on people for believing in a magical being are just as bad as those who want to force feed said being down your throat.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

God is playing the SIMS with us, he chooses when to interfere when not to interfere.

Don't you remember that NT provided proof that angels exist only a few short weeks ago?

Yea I remember that $%$#....still waiting on my own angel to show himself so I can thank him for helping me kill my biochem miniboard exam.

 

[frostythepoptart]

i don't understand why Atheists devote a life to... not believing? I have a really great friend we're basically the same person except he doesn'tbelieve, and I do.

I love the way he doesn't believe however. There's no need to go "preaching" about being a non-believer. You dont care for God and you moveon.

Similar to many believe but aren't those preaching in the streets, or trying to get you to convert every moment.

Is the purpose to instill doubt? Everyone is gonna go through that at one point or another.

On topic: Free will truly explains it all. Call it a cop out if you want. Do you really want to live in a world where you can only do good,have no choice over yourself or your actions. Whats the point of a life like that? There's none. I'll gladly take the good knowing it comes with theevil ten times out of ten.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

 

[dublbagn]

^^^^people will explain this with....you cannot understand god's plan, he works in mysterious ways....BS!!!!!!!!

 

[galvelocity]

Originally Posted by Prostaffer

I think in the end it won't be what/who you followed. I think the big guy will ask "what did you do with your to help/harm other people? Did you leave the earth a better place after you had existed in it?"

Except one of your Popes, who is God's representative on Earth, Pope Boniface the 8th, said word for word, [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]
"[/color]We declare, say, define andpronounce, that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

So uh oh, looks like Heaven is a nightclub and all us non-catholics are rocking Ed Hardy. No way St. Peter the bouncer is letting any of us in. Also thisquote:


Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God isthis: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)

So maybe all Christians are okay to get in, because they all believe in Christ. I don't know. Popes are vague. And here's another one:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the willof my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons andperform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matt. 7:21-23)

So....basically even if you do believe in Him and do things right he MIGHT still turn you away. You can apparently perform exorcisms and miracles and stillnot be allowed in. I think I'm going to go ahead and not bust my balls trying to do awesome things like battling demons just so I may or may not get into aplace that may or may not exist. Also all my best friends are atheists, so if they're not getting in, I'm not going either. I refuse to believe thatsomeone who's a good person could be eternally damned just for denying Christ. I can see if we were the ones that met in Him in person and then crucifiedhim, because then you could see for yourself that He existed and did all this badass magic. But what religion is asking for now is just to blindly believe insomething you can never prove exists.

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!
Yeah the one thing I have to ask those who do believe, is how do you look at the story of Lot and not be like "okay, too far"? Heliterally is like "What's that, Lot's wife? You'd like to take a last look at your longtime hometown as I raze it to the ground because itsinhabitants were pissing me off?" BAM she's a pillar of salt. That's what she gets for being upset that He's destroying her home right infront of her. How do you read that and not be like "wow, *!$* move."?

A lot of the stories seem like He's just doing stuff to prove he can. Like Job for instance. "Hey Satan, check it out, I bet you can screw withthis guy for years and years and just totally ruin his life and he'll still love me" then BAM Job's house collapses with his family in it, hiscrops all burn down, and for whatever reason some sort of nomad tribe kills all his servants and steal his camels or something. And all along God says"yeah, go ahead, just as long as you don't physically hurt him personally, that's fine."

Adam and Eve too. He's supposed to be so forgiving, but they make one mistake because they're the first humans and they're new at the whole"right and wrong" thing, and BAM exiled, by this badass angel with a firesword! If anything, he couldn't have just asked them to leave? There hadto be fireswords involved?

Things like this make it difficult for me to understand why people worship Him. He sounds like a sociopath.

only a handful of people answered my question of whether they thought they were still good or not.
I maintain that I am awesome regardless.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by DublBagn

^^^^people will explain this with....you cannot understand god's plan, he works in mysterious ways....BS!!!!!!!!

Even more absurd, is those that credit God with saving them in disasters. That's like me setting a building on fire and getting props forsaving a few of its inhabitants.

 

[bigteezy]

I admit its hard to understand at first.

True love(good) can only exist when it is in contrast with evil.

I believe if you start with the question, "are we eternal beings, or not?" or "is there an afterlife, or do we just cease to exist when wedie?"

If you start with this and seek truth, then the answer to this question will become obvious or entirely unimportant.

 

[Shanegerous]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Honestly it boggles my mind how a well-educated, rational person can believe in a certain religion with strong conviction.

Why that religion? why that interpretation of God? You know if you were born in ancient Greece you'd worship Zeus and Apollo, right? If you were born in Afghanistan, you'd be a Muslim.

What makes your religion any different that these? what makes it "right?" You, just like the believers in these other, "incorrect" religions, probably believe in what you do because you were raised to, told at a young age that it was the truth.

When I was young, I was told Santa Claus was real. But as I got older, I no longer believed it...what proof did I have of this being true? Absolutely none, of course.

Now if you just believe in some higher power or energy or some God-like being or beings, that I can understand better. I would still ask.......what proof do you have of this? But at least it makes more sense than being a devout believer in Jesus Christ/the teachings of the Bible and rejecting all other iterations of "God."

Exactly my thoughts and opinion...

 

[moderate gatsby]

Not again...

People will believe what they want..Just leave it at that.

 

[prostaffer]

Galvelocity wrote:
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matt. 7:21-23)

So....basically even if you do believe in Him and do things right he MIGHT still turn you away. You can apparently perform exorcisms and miracles and still not be allowed in. I think I'm going to go ahead and not bust my balls trying to do awesome things like battling demons just so I may or may not get into a place that may or may not exist. Also all my best friends are atheists, so if they're not getting in, I'm not going either. I refuse to believe that someone who's a good person could be eternally damned just for denying Christ. I can see if we were the ones that met in Him in person and then crucified him, because then you could see for yourself that He existed and did all this badass magic. But what religion is asking for now is just to blindly believe in something you can never prove exists.

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!
Yeah the one thing I have to ask those who do believe, is how do you look at the story of Lot and not be like "okay, too far"? He literally is like "What's that, Lot's wife? You'd like to take a last look at your longtime hometown as I raze it to the ground because its inhabitants were pissing me off?" BAM she's a pillar of salt. That's what she gets for being upset that He's destroying her home right in front of her. How do you read that and not be like "wow, *!$* move."?

A lot of the stories seem like He's just doing stuff to prove he can. Like Job for instance. "Hey Satan, check it out, I bet you can screw with this guy for years and years and just totally ruin his life and he'll still love me" then BAM Job's house collapses with his family in it, his crops all burn down, and for whatever reason some sort of nomad tribe kills all his servants and steal his camels or something. And all along God says "yeah, go ahead, just as long as you don't physically hurt him personally, that's fine."

Adam and Eve too. He's supposed to be so forgiving, but they make one mistake because they're the first humans and they're new at the whole "right and wrong" thing, and BAM exiled, by this badass angel with a firesword! If anything, he couldn't have just asked them to leave? There had to be fireswords involved?

Things like this make it difficult for me to understand why people worship Him. He sounds like a sociopath.



On Adam and Eve and most of the stuff in the old testament; you know most catholics do not take those stories literally. People living for 100s of years and soon. The stories are metaphors. They aren't meant to be taken literally. Adam and Even are actually examples of what started this thread. Mans free will iswhat drives him from paradise. Wanting the unknown even though you have everything is human nature. If they had everything they wanted in Eden why did theyanger God? Temptation and free will is the moral of the story.

On Pope's: (Boniface was hated by many of his time and much of the papacy in the early years is shrouded in conspiracy and corruption) I'll take thewords of a Pope who will soon be a saint. The Venerable Pope John Paul II

On free will : Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.

On Judaism: You are our dearly beloved brothers, and in a certain way, it could be said that you are our elder brothers.

On Muslims: Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope,but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness.We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures totheir perfection.
(He also visited a mosque, removing his shoes and kissed the Qu'ran)

And yes he did not believe god snapped his fingers. He accepted the theory of evolution and always believed the science and religion can work together to clearup misconceptions on both sides.

Doesn't sound like God saying it's my way or the highway. All religions are a path to god, and for those that don't believe I would say you'llbe ok so long as your a good person.

He read about the tarot and other religions.

Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama and the spiritual leader of TibetanBuddhism, visited Pope John Paul II eight times, more than any other single dignitary. The Pope and the Dalai Lama often shared similar views andunderstood similar plights, both coming from peoples affected by communism and bothbeing heads of major religious bodies.


This is the way I perceive my religion. Open to all and accepting of others. Some people choose to take things too literal and the wrong way. Some people justrefuse to look at religion through another persons eyes.

 

[neighb0rh00d]

God has the power to stop evil but he chooses not to because he wanted us to have freedom.

 

[jinzo]

God works in mysterious ways. All we can do is have faith

 

[neighb0rh00d]

Originally Posted by Retro23J

recycledpaper wrote:

---

Prostaffer wrote:

---

correct.

i'd rather die believing in god and finding out he doesn't exist instead of choosing not to believe in him only to find out i'm wrong when i meet him.

if this is your reason for believing, you are going to hell regardless.


elaborate plz



He still has doubt in God. The only way to go to heaven is to believe Jesus died for us.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

If God is omniprescent and omniscient and he is all-knowing....Then He knows your every move, what you are thinking, your choices in the future and thedecisions you will take and make in your life. So using this logic, our so-called free will cannot override God's omniscience. Everything we think and dois already known to Him and has been known to him for all eternity past. So let's say then that you believe in the power of prayer...What is prayersupposed to change really?You will pray if God already knows you will and you won't do it if he already knows you won't. He's known forever whetheror not you'll repent. You can't change that. The decision is not yours to make, because using the logic that God is omniprescent and all-knowing, thenthe prophecy overrides everything unless the Bible, and therefore God, is wrong. Do we really have the free will as God's follower suggest we do?Let megive an analogy to compare this to...It is like a skilled magician asking someone to choose a card from a stacked deck, at first it appears to be a freechoice, but the magician knows the outcome before he even offers the deck. Do we really have the free will?

So, then technically, if he does know about our future choices, then we aren't really making choices nor do we have free will, we're just following apredestined plan.

 

[larryindiana219]

@ "The problem of Evil" being discussed on NT.... the cynic in me is just dying to see this resolved once and for all....right

.

 

[Jordan8]

Stop giving God a human personality

 

[cz7]

To these people saying they are X, Y, Z religion but I still am open and accepting to A,B,C religion and concede they may be saved too.


That kind of thinking is something YOU have added to your religious beliefs to make yourself feel better about other religions, because I'm pretty surethat no where in the bible, koran, or any other holy book is this type of thing advocated. The bible demands exactly the opposite and makes it very clear thatJesus Christ is it, the beginning and the end, and then the Koran outright rejects Jesus' divinity.


So to say you are christian/muslim but don't believe everyone else is going to hell just means you are not following your own religion correctly.


To the guy who said all religions are following the same God. Why would God just mess with our heads like that? Why would he say in the case of christianitythat this one of my religions is only one ill accept.

I dont think that can be the case, most religions are just fundamentally incompatible, and a belief in God will not equal salvation, but you also have to admitto a host of other supernatural claims and do specific rituals. This is what the holy books say, because YOU want to adopt a all-loving all inclusivephilosophy on God doesn't make it true, because it is simply not what he is and he NEVER claims to be in any of his books.

 

[sundoobie]

8 pages of the same recycled arguments. Entertaining stuff. Keep it up!

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE



8 pages of the same recycled arguments. Entertaining stuff. Keep it up!

and another utterly meaningless comment from someone too afraid to voice his opinion.

 

[quiickz]

Originally Posted by Cz7


I dont think that can be the case, most religions are just fundamentally incompatible, and a belief in God will not equal salvation, but you also have to admit to a host of other supernatural claims and do specific rituals. This is what the holy books say, because YOU want to adopt a all-loving all inclusive philosophy on God doesn't make it true, because it is simply not what he is and he NEVER claims to be in any of his books.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

[new wu]

Another religous thread? *Exits*

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE



8 pages of the same recycled arguments. Entertaining stuff. Keep it up!

and another utterly meaningless comment from someone too afraid to voice his opinion.

Afraid to comment on something already spoken about for the hundredth time here on Niketalk? Beyond POINTLESS!

If you don't believe.. more power to you.

If you believe, even more power to you because you have to deal with these antagonizing questions.

Instead of starting a new thread.. .why don't you folks just continue the bickering in these posts?

Re: I want to hear youropinions on this Vol. Not another God thread again...

Re: @#@% you God. vol. hitand run. yes Im mad. come in and hate on GOD!

Re: Why do people say theywon't cuss on Sundays?

Re: I need help from religious NTers

Re: Would The World Be ABetter Place If Religion Did Not Exist

Re: Pope BenedictXVI': "Ok, God may have made Aliens too in those six days"

Re: Not sayin Idon't believe in Christ/God, But I don't think Christianity by itself is doin it for me.

Re: OfficialAtheist/Non-Believer Appreciation Thread. Vol. Yes we exist

Re: NT, serious question....MUSLIMScelebrating CHRISTMAS, your thoughts?

Re: Jesus and the Story of Horus

Re: Mega Churches.....?

Re: The Official BibleAppreciation Thread Vol. God is my Savior.

Re: A question for all ofmy fellow nonbelievers... Would you lie?

Re: What'll happenif Jesus Christ came back to earth and proved himeslf?

Re: Anyone else think Church is stupid

Re: Quick Religion question

Re: DISCOVERY/NAT GEO IS AIRING OUTCHRISTIANITY

Re: NT, Angels DO Exist..

Re: Greek Mythology and Modern WesternReligions

Re: Pot thought of theday......Will Science Wipe Out Religion?

Re: The Cubana LustThread.....Jesus Is Living In Her Butt.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD OR CREATION..

Re: NT: What's Your Religion?


YAWNNNN

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE



8 pages of the same recycled arguments. Entertaining stuff. Keep it up!

and another utterly meaningless comment from someone too afraid to voice his opinion.

Afraid to comment on something already spoken about for the hundredth time here on Niketalk? Beyond POINTLESS!

If you don't believe.. more power to you.

If you believe, even more power to you because you have to deal with these antagonizing questions.

Instead of starting a new thread.. .why don't you folks just continue the bickering in these posts?

Re: I want to hear your opinions on this Vol. Not another God thread again...

Re: @#@% you God. vol. hit and run. yes Im mad. come in and hate on GOD!

Re: Why do people say they won't cuss on Sundays?

Re: I need help from religious NTers

Re: Would The World Be A Better Place If Religion Did Not Exist

Re: Pope Benedict XVI': "Ok, God may have made Aliens too in those six days"

Re: Not sayin I don't believe in Christ/God, But I don't think Christianity by itself is doin it for me.

Re: Official Atheist/Non-Believer Appreciation Thread. Vol. Yes we exist

Re: NT, serious question....MUSLIMS celebrating CHRISTMAS, your thoughts?

Re: Jesus and the Story of Horus

Re: Mega Churches.....?

Re: The Official Bible Appreciation Thread Vol. God is my Savior.

Re: A question for all of my fellow nonbelievers... Would you lie?

Re: What'll happen if Jesus Christ came back to earth and proved himeslf?

Re: Anyone else think Church is stupid

Re: Quick Religion question

Re: DISCOVERY/NAT GEO IS AIRING OUT CHRISTIANITY

Re: NT, Angels DO Exist..

Re: Greek Mythology and Modern Western Religions

Re: Pot thought of the day......Will Science Wipe Out Religion?

Re: The Cubana Lust Thread.....Jesus Is Living In Her Butt.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD OR CREATION..

Re: NT: What's Your Religion?


YAWNNNN

Now that is a useful and meaningful post. Bravo

 

[darthska]

lobotomybeats:

---

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!
When was the last time you credited God for anything?

Why is it that when good things happen, there is no god to credit anything for, but then we put him out there for us to blame when something tragic happens?

"God doesn't exist to me... except when I want to briefly submit to the concept so I can blame him for that tsunami. Once that's all settled andout of the news, I'll go back to saying he doesn't exist... until the next major tragedy."