i didn't intend to write this much, sorry if it is a bit disjointed blame it on the fatigue...this is in response to both your own & PRIME's points: true enough, there really doesn't seem much bruno mars could do/say that he hasn't already done or isn't already doing/saying, i can't imagine that it is really backfiring against him tho...i don't think there is a persuasive argument either way to the point it could affect how one perceives his music, which at the very least is decent if not very good...even if it is a facsimile of black music i think bruno mars, while maybe not super innovative (which has never been the ONLY standard to judge an artist), is traditionally talented, in ways the many posterchild examples of appropriation, someone like elvis presley (who was talented, but in an unconventional way -thus easier to criticize) tend not to be; and part of elvis's appeal was that he was seen as a more appealing package to white folk for some parts of 'black' music... although that maybe wasn't necessarily how elvis saw himself and prolly isn't how any artist who arrives at a particular sound via the influence of a culture they aren't explicitly a part of sees themselves; that the music industry seems to view 'blackness thru a non-black proxy' more salable is the part of the discussion/question that is maybe most pertinent to discuss...so it isn't really about bruno mars (elvis, or any individual for that matter), it is about a system that preferences a certain 'packaging' and often, that works against people of color generally and maybe black folk specifically (which isn't to say there aren't ways people of color in some circumstances can't/don't appropriate culture as well)... which is unfair, but c'est la vie as the french say...that doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't want/try/hope to make the world more equitable but it is to say there the reality that is inherently unfair. to the point about jazz, i don't think it proper to say white folk 'stole' jazz (and it is rare that people don't give props to the black musicians on which the artform was built by)...rather culture & music tastes shifted, economics changed as well, the migration of blacks from the south, new opportunities for blacks, the growth of radio & recorded music, cats moving out to europe where those dudes were really lit, and it may well have been that whites had more of an interest & the means to pursue jazz (expensive investment into buying or renting an instrument, expensive lessons, expensive time commitment to practice) more so than blacks during the transition of generations? i feel like part of why the appropriation is resonant in america particularly (which is a young relatively diverse country, in relation to the old world that has so much history and is fairly homogeneous) is the dichotomy/hypocrisy of a country that bills itself on being impartial, fairness, hard work, the diversity of ideas, rewarding excellence, meritocracy but splitting itself along ethnic lines...everyone is intellectually aware that people generally like & relate to seeing those that like themselves, but when we have people that purport to highlighting the best things produced of (american) culture and continually kinda overlooking black/people of color's contribution(s) it is at least worth talking about why there isn't more respeckt on the work produced by us? so pointing out 'appropriation' (however salty it is to do it), can be good & necessary because it can be impetus for introspective interrogation...and in that process we ALL hopefully become more aware, learn something about, & curb our biases??? especially considering the fact that ideas, standards, & styles get accepted/championed/put down/opposed based on who is promulgating them...now that people are consuming things tailored to their tastes there may be even less discovery or serendipity, which could lead to less curiosity overall about who & how things come to us... it doesn't seem particularly useful to talk about how and in what ways appropriating artists should apologize for their success, pay homage, compensate or contribute to 'the culture' because it could hardly be enforceable...artists make art, rarely is that art entirely original or not built off of something that came before it, and some of which is aimed at & commercially viable to demographics that are different than, the same as, or irrespective of, the creator... i would say nelly was putting on in an artificial way singing with an accented 'country' affectation much different than his 'normal' way of speaking/singing that seems very inauthentic (from my knowledge & perspective of him) and in line with appropriation (not all that dissimilar from the 'blaccent' people were killing iggy azalea for), i think its corny but i don't find it to be anything other than an attempt at an artistic challenge/exploration (albeit one that comes with some significant potential for commercial benefit as well!), maybe he would say as much if he were to explain what influenced him to try country out? after all "what/who are you influences" is not an uncommon question asked of artists and we'd like to think it was coming from an authentic place of inspiration, but i do think it is the case for hip-hop in particular where this question has often been answered with a kind of contempt & ignorance of the culture & craft entirely for the emphasis of the profit motive (#gettinthebag); such is their personal prerogative tho i do feel this general attitude has become more pervasive in popular culture generally...(#sidebar: if you aren't aware of who gary 'vee' vaynerchuk is, checking out his politicking with hip hop artist in particular is fascinating for its naked capitalism because the contrast is so apparent & you almost instantly ask if he would be meeting with a similar stature artist in another genre and if that artist would even entertain such a discussion? the answer to both questions is likely yes, but i think it is something you wonder...) so while i see what you are saying and for the most part agree with your overall point, but also largely disagree with your reasoning...there are power dynamics that do influence how we see these things, isn't there a very tangible difference to how each side sees the 'majority' borrowing/taking from the 'minority' and vice versa? in an ideal world things like appropriation and its inverse, almost, 'representation,' wouldn't matter...but given things aren't ideal you'd hope that all people would be more sensitive/understanding about things like appropriation and representation, it maybe unfair (especially to people of color given the historical antecedents) asking both folks on the 'appropriating' side and advocating for more representation side to have more imagination about addressing these things...but #itbelikethatsometimes either way, both "we saw little value in supporting..." and "we don't understand how to monetize..." premises seems fundamentally distorted as relates to cultural commerce; both statements assume that these things would affect a tangible difference in a broad sense, when it is entirely possible, even likely that both would result in music (or culture more broadly) being basically exactly as they are now because neither monetization or support = control -to the extent culture can be even be 'controlled,' no one knows who is at the wheel (also why grand conspiracies, while not impossible, are hard to fathom for me)... other groups are not successful in the states by writ of how they 'control' or monetize their culture or how they support those that disseminate it, rather they form tight knit communities, that provide networks of trust that support each other not cultural artifacts...instead we could asks why those with the means to build a sort of infrastructure of black business/wealth did not or could not? why haven't we built closer, stronger, tighter communities? what & why did tastes narrow in such a way that only certain representations of blackness were shown and/or deemed acceptable? it may well be that part of the answers to those questions have to do with some failing(s) of what is deemed 'black' culture but i'm not convinced that is the deciding factor...
This. These dudes' heads would blow up if they knew just how many non-Blacks are making excellent rap out there. Some of the best French rappers are Arabs (and it used to be the second largest hip hop market after the US). ****, look at the breakdance scene these days. Cultural appropriation means not acknowledging or misrepresenting where the art you're making comes from. White supremacists trying to tie the Egyptian pyramids to Europe is cultural appropriation. A white dude rapping his *** off/playing the blues with the best of them AND acknowledging where the art comes from isn't.
It is. But it isn't a problem that can be fixed by directing anger towards the "offending" artist. What needs to happen is a conscious and sustained effort to teach about African American contributions as an integral part of American history and culture in the K12 system throughout the academic year as opposed to focus on it only in February. There wasn't any.
no? first sentence of your 4 paragraph first post quoting me: that doesnt sound like disagreement to you?
But here we go getting social media mad and missing the bigger picture. So Bruno is out the paint, now what? Someone won't be out there to replace him along with the others already out there? He's not the issue, it's the system in place and what they choose to push. Black music will always have it's place of prominence, we've always been doing our own thing and supporting our own, now what do we do the infiltrate, redesign the system and take over so we can keep the music in it's rightful place? Dudes would rather hate on the dudes trying, talking about Jay a snake or engage in Puff gay rumors instead of backing their efforts while still posting fake woke think pieces.
In Wake of 9-Year-Old’s Suicide, Waterford Father Urges Other Parents to Talk With Children About How They Are Feeling and What They are Thinking http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...w-they-are-feeling-and-what-they-are-thinking
i learned about this years ago watching a HBO doc on suicide they had a 9yo that hung himself the same way because a teacher was teasing him messed me up
There is a glaring issue that keeps popping up to me so far in this Bruno Mars debate that not one is really talking about. And that issue is the misplaced anger Black folks have towards a capitalist system that extracts value and profit from our culture without us benefiting from any of it. We don't own or control the industries that sells our culture across the world to be consumed. We have historically been the creators or contributors of every musical genre this country has produced ( That includes country music). And yet we don't own or control any of it. Our relationship with America is one of theft, exploitation, murder, and violence. This **** goes deeper than just music man. It really isn't about Bruno as much as it is about what he represents. He represents exploitation and the very real reality that society wants to enjoy black culture without black people and will gladly prop up those who are able to perform it. Now is that Bruno's fault? Absolutely not. Should he punished for that? No. But I think it's unwise to overlook how the system props up non-black people of color as adversaries to black folks. When I hear my people talk about these things, I can see the trauma for what it is. I can see the pain and frustration at seeing others being acknowledged and praised for the things you created while they relegate you to the margins for doing what you do naturally. Paul Mooney said it best man. Everybody wanna be....
this happened to me! had an internship in italy where i worked with this french kid who put me on to bunch of dope french & euro hip-hop in the office and even did point out that some were arab, which i thought was interesting given some his opinions on arab tensions with french people within france at the time tho i'm not sure the onus is on artists/people to always be able to acknowledge/articulate/know the origins of the art/culture...it would be great if all people did or were at least open to that dialogue, but i think it is especially hard to do now that so much (some of it conflicting) info is easily available without context. i would think the real life example might be someone who's entry point into something is through a 'proxy' (ex: a white dude into rap might see guys like eminem [like how many of em's casual fans are aware that redman is/was em's favorite rapper and thus buy red's music?], asher roth, bubba sparks, mack miller, (gasp) fred durst/limp bizkit, or (deep sigh) worse some of these white, red neck, confederate flag totting, rapper as his influences)...if such a person isn't also curious/open you could see how they might fundamentally "misrepresent" where the art comes from but be totally genuine, and see a conversation that challenges their world view, and 'forces,' or puts upon them a context that isn't true to them... also the power dynamic, is something appropriation if it is kinda the price of admission into a culture? i view nelly's exaggerated country twang & iggy azalea's blaccent in this way...as much as it might be interesting to hear what dirty south rap sounds like with an aussie accent or see nelly really deconstruct country music beyond what is already familiar, it'd maybe still be appropriation it just would be more honest...them being superficial about their approach is just how they had known it to be done and as such is an inherent acknowledgement of the origins... there is a lot of nuance that can easily be lost in the passion of the argument... i put that in an incomplete way...those thing don't necessarily mean control; it may change the math but i don't know that monetizing culture changes the overarching system, it might just reinforce it...because in the most plainly stated way those things in & of themselves aren't about control per se, both may be necessary to have control but either could be their own goal...(there are people fine with getting money and not necessarily being a decision maker, just as there people who have many who support them but don't control anything) this is an aside, but i look at the way companies like amazon, facebook & google have been able to monetize data, and it is probably inevitable that at some point that people will (and should probably) want to either control or at least access that data themselves, it will be interesting to see how that influences the existing structures of discrimination because looking at how things like the airbnbs & ubers have operated being able to monetize doesn't and isn't aimed at changing our underlying biases... traumatic...what happened to the teacher???
smh I feel like the dudes with the dreads was the only one making sense during this debate. The crazy thing is nobody was trying to listen to him and look at the negative comments he receives in the chat area. I wish we spent more time talking about the men that are falsely accused and/or victims of rape/sexual harassment.
Have yall seen this NYT Upshot piece????!!!! MY GOD!!! The game is rigged man! Rich White Boys Stay Rich. Black Boys Don’t. Black boys raised in America, even in the wealthiest families and living in some of the most well-to-do neighborhoods, still earn less in adulthood than white boys with similar backgrounds, according to a sweeping new study that traced the lives of millions of children. White boys who grow up rich are likely to remain that way. Black boys raised at the top, however, are more likely to become poor than to stay wealthy in their own adult households. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html
What did yall rock to see black panther? All these are from Guinea Conakry except the black zulu joint. Got the flag reppin on the last one.
Them cats straight up culture vultured that idea from Young Pharaoh. He shouldn't of told people about his plans/idea on one of recent videos,leasoned learned. People just sitting online waiting to bite ideas from mentally advanced people like Young Pharaoh.