Black People and the Church

[sifupooh]

Originally Posted by jerryjones

Hit the nail on the head....

 thank you for the education on a sneaker forum. all i wear is stan smiths timbs and wallabees

 

[tomdiginson]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by TomDiginson

Originally Posted by kix4kix

The issue is, that the church signified a place where the movements of the 50's/60's�funneled�through. It was a place where they could meet free of police interference, and civil rights really does owe a lot to the church for that reason. My issue about why so many blacks still go, is why? What has the church done for you lately? I remember when I heard one of the most talented pastors preach one weekend. Sure enough after the service, this guy pulls out in a Sclass Benz, and I have the�

�face on.
This guy just moved a guy (me) from the pulpit-something very few pastors have done to me, yet he pulls out in a 150k car.

His congregation was taken.�

That doesn't mean pastors should live worse than anyone else. If he wants to drive the S class let him as long as his finances permit him to do so as long as he is not dipping into the churches finances to cover his big spending habits. I do understand what you're saying though. Some pastors are all about the money and only preach about giving tithes and offering , but cannot let those who do this represent them all.

So...just curious. your avy...is that Haile Selassie?
What are your thoughts on Rastafarianism and how it relates to�Ethiopia�etc...

Do you believe completely in that?

I just want more of your perspective if possible.

My parents are Jamaican, not rastas though, but I have a few in my family...its always interesting to get their spin on things.

If you're looking to debate with me over my personal views I wont engage with you about it, but if you truly just wanna know my views on it then fine. I also have family who are Rastafaris but our views differ. There are some who believe that Haile Selassie is a reincarnation of Jesus Christ and there are those like myself who just believe that he was a great man. My beliefs are a mixture of Christianity and Rastafari. Selassie himself was a Christian and stated he was not of divinity. The bible also states that

[sup]"23[/sup] At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. [sup]24[/sup] For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [sup]25[/sup] See, I have told you ahead of time."

I'm not saying that Selassie declared himself as Messiah or as a Prophet, but some people as you can see have done so.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

ThorrocksJs wrote:
<But I'm not atheist though
Well they aren't a lot of black females that are w/e you are 

 

[gllahone84]

nevermind

  

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs



I'm saying that I'm good black guy and would like to date some of y'all would you all please not hold it against me that I don't believe in Christianity and are you free on friday

I wouldn't date you, God is important to me and you don't share that feeling, we aren't on the same team.

We would but heads and its OBVIOUS you would try to change my views and I would end up doing the same.

But I understand they're aren't a lot of female black atheist so 

 

<But I'm not atheist though

It doesn't matter, they act like as long as you believe in something you're good in their book but that isn't the case---They just want you to love Jesus as much as they do


Honestly, the only women I'd even consider "converting" for are Jewish women.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

^^^^^^I dunno about "as common" but it could just be a product of the white women I'm exposed to (New England, tristate area, top 50 college educated)-Can't speak on Southern ones but you may have a point I'm sure you'd find a lot of them in places like Mississippi and Alabama

Ahhh ok I can see that. I'm mostly speaking of East Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, Memphis, Alabama, and Mississippi (just mentioning those states I actually been to).
Of course you have exceptions in every one of those listed, but just on average that's how it is. 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Ruxxx

Former sluts usually talk that "through christ" foolishness the heaviest.

(I'm not even trying to be funny)

This is so true

Anyway, the whole situation is really a shame though.

 

[taymane23]

Originally Posted by gllahone84

Slave religion.

bam

 

[patrick bateman]

Originally Posted by cap1229

Christianity = the slave religion? 

Yes. You weren't involved in that stuff until you were dragged off the slave ship.

Origins of the slaves? I’ll tell you the origin of the slaves. They are Hebrews from the tribe of Yehudah (Judah) and Levi. They were captured out from West Africa (originally escaping persecution from the Romans and moving in mass numbers into East Africa) after serving false idols/gods in Egypt and disobeying the Most High and his laws*, they were shipped across the Atlantic. This Nation of Israel was sold into slavery and was scattered amongst other nations (Deut 28:64) beginning with Portugal in the 1400s. Israel’s seed would be a stranger in a land that isn’t theirs (various continents, islands etc and mainly the US of A) and would serve the stranger for 400yrs (Gen 15:13-15). While in slavery, they would serve the gods of their slave masters (which neither they nor their ancestors knew) and lose sight of the Most High (Deut 28:64).. When did the modern day "Jews" go into slavery? In 1 John 8:33 A figure who most would call “Jesus,

 

[sifupooh]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby

I wouldn't date you, God is important to me and you don't share that feeling, we aren't on the same team.

We would but heads and its OBVIOUS you would try to change my views and I would end up doing the same.

But I understand they're aren't a lot of female black atheist so 

 

<But I'm not atheist though

It doesn't matter, they act like as long as you believe in something you're good in their book but that isn't the case---They just want you to love Jesus as much as they do


Honestly, the only women I'd even consider "converting" for are Jewish women.

 my last two were non religious

 

[mr kuter]

Originally Posted by lilpro4u

Pan-African Major. Took a African Am-Religions course, Most black women think I'm crazy, but they're so intrigued.. I ask questions that they've never been asked before.

Like?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by sifupooh

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs


<But I'm not atheist though

It doesn't matter, they act like as long as you believe in something you're good in their book but that isn't the case---They just want you to love Jesus as much as they do


Honestly, the only women I'd even consider "converting" for are Jewish women.

 my last two were non religious

Yea from my experience a lot of Jewish women are "culturally Jewish" but don't necessarily take the religion itself seriously

 

[thorrocksjs]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Originally Posted by cap1229

Christianity = the slave religion? 

Yes. You weren't involved in that stuff until you were dragged off the slave ship.

Origins of the slaves? I’ll tell you the origin of the slaves. They are Hebrews from the tribe of Yehudah (Judah) and Levi. They were captured out from West Africa (originally escaping persecution from the Romans and moving in mass numbers into East Africa) after serving false idols/gods in Egypt and disobeying the Most High and his laws*, they were shipped across the Atlantic. This Nation of Israel was sold into slavery and was scattered amongst other nations (Deut 28:64) beginning with Portugal in the 1400s. Israel’s seed would be a stranger in a land that isn’t theirs (various continents, islands etc and mainly the US of A) and would serve the stranger for 400yrs (Gen 15:13-15). While in slavery, they would serve the gods of their slave masters (which neither they nor their ancestors knew) and lose sight of the Most High (Deut 28:64).. When did the modern day "Jews" go into slavery? In 1 John 8:33 A figure who most would call “Jesus,

 

[cuffy]

Originally Posted by Ruxxx

Former sluts usually talk that "through christ" foolishness the heaviest.

(I'm not even trying to be funny)

Proven fact

 

[patrick bateman]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Originally Posted by cap1229

Christianity = the slave religion?�

Wait from what I interpert we are the perennial failures world

Perennial isn't the word to use�

leviticus 26:44-45



44�Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God.�45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.'








and take into account the story of Esau and Jacob and what's going on today.

 

[patrick bateman]

When it comes to quoting and embedding Yuku is godawful. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

When it comes to quoting and embedding Yuku is godawful. 

How can you all honestly quote bible verses and think they're relevant more so TODAY than they were last year, 10 years before that, during Vietnam, WWII, WWI, or any time before that, OR any time in the future?

Every moment in some part of the world feels like the "end is coming"

If you focus on only what the news tells you, you'll always think there are problems in the middle east...why not south america? Why not south asia? Why not the middle of africa? 

Your frame of reference never accounts for things that are verifiably relevant to the discussion but outside of your defined sphere of influence.

Where do you draw the line? 

To quote the bible you'd have to assume that the bible is a valid source of information. Why not do THAT first and then talk about finding it necessary to quote. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

...buncha idiots in here.

Don't be so quick to flatter yourself:
[h2]Blacks say atheists were unseen civil rights heroes[/h2]
Feb 23, 2012 by Kimberly Winston

c. 2012 Religion News Service (RNS) Think of the civil rights movement and chances are the image that comes to mind is of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. leading the 1963 March on Washington. 

But few people think of A. Philip Randolph, a labor organizer who originated the idea of the march and was at King's side as he made his famous "I Have a Dream" speech. 

Why is King, a Christian, remembered by so many and Randolph, an atheist, by so few? It's a question many African-American nontheists -- atheists, humanists and skeptics -- are asking this Black History Month, with some scholars and activists calling for a re-examination of the contributions of nontheists of color to the civil rights movement and beyond. 

"So often you hear about religious people involved in the civil rights movement, and as well you should, but there were also humanists," said Norm R. Allen Jr. of the Institute for Science and Human Values, a humanist organization based in Tampa, Fla. 

"No one is discussing how their beliefs impacted their activism or intellectualism. People forget we are a diverse community. We are not monolithic." 

Allen has promoted recognition for African-American nonbelievers since he founded the group African Americans for Humanism in 1989. This year, more than 15 local AAH chapters are expected to highlight Randolph and about a dozen others as part of their observance of a Day of Solidarity for Black Nonbelievers on Sunday (Feb. 26). 

The hope, Allen said, is that highlighting the contributions of African-American humanists -- and humanists in general -- both in the civil rights movement and beyond will encourage acceptance of nonbelievers, a group that polls consistently rank as the least liked in the U.S. 

"So often people look at atheists as if they have horns on their heads," Allen said. "In order to correct that, it would be important to correct the historical record and show that African-American humanists have been involved in numerous instances in the civil rights movement and before." 

AAH is also promoting black humanists in a billboard campaign in several cities, including New York, Dallas, Chicago and Durham, N.C. Each one pairs a local black nontheist with a black nonbeliever from the past. "Doubts about religion?" the billboard reads. "You're one of many." 

A billboard in Los Angeles pairs Sikivu Hutchinson, a humanist activist based in Los Angeles, with Zora Neale Hurston, a folklorist of African-American culture who wrote of being an unbeliever in her childhood. Hutchinson, author of the forthcoming "Godless Americana: Race and Religious Rebels," links blacks' religiosity with social ills such as poverty, joblessness and inequality. 

"To become politically visible as a constituency, it is critical for black nonbelievers to say we have this parallel position within the civil rights struggle," she said. 

A strain of unbelief runs across African-American history, said Anthony Pinn, a Rice University professor and author of a book about African-American humanists. He points to figures like Hubert Henry Harrison, an early 20th- century activist who equated religion with slavery, and W.E.B. DuBois, founder of the NAACP, who was often critical of black churches. 

"Lorraine Hansberry, Richard Wright, Langston Hughes -- they were all critical of belief in God," Pinn said. "They provided a foundation for nontheistic participation in social struggle." 

But they are often ignored in the narrative of American history, sacrificed to the myth that the achievements of the civil rights movement were the accomplishments of religious -- mainly Christian -- people. 

Add in that black nonbelievers are a double minority -- polls show African-Americans are among the most religious U.S. group -- and it becomes even more difficult to discuss the atheism of heroes of black history. 

"This is a country that loves the rhetoric of the belief in God," Pinn said. "And think about how things currently stand. You can be socially ostracized and lose all sorts of connections by voicing one's disbelief. If it raises these sorts of questions now, what were the consequences of doing it during the mid-20th century when everything about black life in the U.S. was in question?" 

Juan Floyd-Thomas, a religious historian and professor at Vanderbilt University and author of a book on the origins of black humanism, agrees with Pinn, and called the traditional view of the civil rights movement as an inevitable extension of American Christianity "a mythology." 

Wright's and Randolph's critiques of organized religion, Floyd-Thomas said, "would not be too far out of step with the New Atheists" -- best-selling atheist authors like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. But he laments that most African-Americans and even many nontheists are unaware of this history. 

"One of the things that can be gained from shining a bright light on the contributions of nontheists to the broad sweep of the civil rights movement would have to be integrity," he said. "These people had a moral core and that's something that is sorely needed, whether you are a theist or a nontheist." 

Sunday's (Feb. 26) "Day of Solidarity for Black Nonbelievers, will include a remembrance of African-American atheists of the past, including: 

-- James Baldwin (1924-1987), poet, playwright, civil rights activist 

Once a Pentecostal preacher, Baldwin's 1963 book, "The Fire Next Time," describes how "being in the pulpit was like being in the theatre; I was behind the scenes and knew how the illusion worked." Baldwin never publicly declared his atheism, but he was critical of religion. "If the concept of God has any validity or any use," he wrote, "it can only be to make us larger, freer, and more loving. If God cannot do this, then it is time we got rid of him." 

-- W.E.B DuBois (1868-1963), co-founder of the NAACP 

Columbia University professor Manning Marable wrote that DuBois' 1903 work, "The Souls of Black Folk," "helped to create the intellectual argument for the black freedom struggle in the 20th century." DuBois described himself as a freethinker and was sometimes critical of the black church, which he said was too slow in supporting or promoting racial equality. 

-- Lorraine Hansberry (1930-1965), playwright and journalist 

Hansberry's partly autobiographical play "A Raisin in the Sun," shocked Broadway audiences when a black character declared, "God is just one idea I don't accept. ... It's just that I get so tired of him getting credit for all the things the human race achieves through its own stubborn effort. There simply is no God! There is only man, and it's he who makes miracles!" She worked with W.E.B. DuBois and Paul Robeson on an African-American progressive newspaper, but her life was cut short at age 34 by cancer. 

-- Hubert Henry Harrison (1883-1927), activist, educator, writer 

Harrison promoted positive racial consciousness among African-Americans and is credited with influencing A. Philip Randolph and the godfather of black nationalism, Marcus Garvey. Harrison proudly declared his atheism and wrote, "Show me a population that is deeply religious and I will show you a servile population, content with whips and chains, ... content to eat the bread of sorrow and drink the waters of affliction." 

-- A. Philip Randolph (1889-1979), labor organizer 

Randolph was the founder of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters, the first predominantly black union. He helped convince President Franklin Roosevelt to desegregate military production factories during World War II, and organized the 1963 March on Washington with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. In 1973, Randolph signed the Humanist Manifesto II, a public declaration of Humanist principles. He is reported to have said of prayer: "Our aim is to appeal to reason. ... Prayer is not one of our remedies; it depends on what one is praying for. We consider prayer nothing more than a fervent wish; consequently the merit and worth of a prayer depend upon what the fervent wish is." 

-- Carter G. Woodson (1875-1950), journalist and historian 

In 1926, Woodson proposed "Negro History Week," which later evolved into Black History Month. In 1933, he wrote in "The Mis-Education of the Negro" that "the ritualistic churches into which these Negroes have gone do not touch the masses, and they show no promising future for racial development. Such institutions are controlled by those who offer the Negroes only limited opportunity and then sometimes on the condition that they be segregated in the court of the gentiles outside of the temple of Jehovah." 

-- Richard Wright (1908-1960), novelist and author 

In his memoir "Black Boy," Wright wrote, "Before I had been made to go to church, I had given God's existence a sort of tacit assent, but after having seen his creatures serve him at first hand, I had had my doubts. My faith, as it was, was welded to the common realities of life, anchored in the sensations of my body and in what my mind could grasp, and nothing could ever shake this faith, and surely not my fear of an invisible power."
/www.christiancentury.org/sites/default/themes/siteskin/inc/images/cc-background-bottom.png);">http://www.christiancentu...-background-bottom.png); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(98, 92, 82); border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; width: auto !important; font-family: Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; ">
[emoji]169[/emoji] 2012 The Christian Century. All rights reserved.

 

[soversotowel]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

The issue is, that the church signified a place where the movements of the 50's/60's funneled through. It was a place where they could meet free of police interference, and civil rights really does owe a lot to the church for that reason. My issue about why so many blacks still go, is why? What has the church done for you lately? I remember when I heard one of the most talented pastors preach one weekend. Sure enough after the service, this guy pulls out in a Sclass Benz, and I have the 

 face on.
This guy just moved a guy (me) from the pulpit-something very few pastors have done to me, yet he pulls out in a 150k car.

His congregation was taken. 

Im convinced that pastors are no different than rappers

 

[njcollector]

She was a #!+ in highschool.


She is an extremist, she either goes deeply (nopun intended) into religion and holds it as her backbone, her credo; or she goes to the other extreme, which we all know what that is. She doesn't know the middle ground. These days if a girl doesn't have(or had) a Rihanna katy perry or Chris brown song in their iPod it's a red flag.

 

[ogbobbyjohnson773]

Originally Posted by SoVerSoTowel

Originally Posted by kix4kix

The issue is, that the church signified a place where the movements of the 50's/60's funneled through. It was a place where they could meet free of police interference, and civil rights really does owe a lot to the church for that reason. My issue about why so many blacks still go, is why? What has the church done for you lately? I remember when I heard one of the most talented pastors preach one weekend. Sure enough after the service, this guy pulls out in a Sclass Benz, and I have the 

 face on.
This guy just moved a guy (me) from the pulpit-something very few pastors have done to me, yet he pulls out in a 150k car.

His congregation was taken. 

Im convinced that pastors are no different than rappers

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by OGbobbyjohnson773

Originally Posted by SoVerSoTowel

Originally Posted by kix4kix

The issue is, that the church signified a place where the movements of the 50's/60's funneled through. It was a place where they could meet free of police interference, and civil rights really does owe a lot to the church for that reason. My issue about why so many blacks still go, is why? What has the church done for you lately? I remember when I heard one of the most talented pastors preach one weekend. Sure enough after the service, this guy pulls out in a Sclass Benz, and I have the 

 face on.
This guy just moved a guy (me) from the pulpit-something very few pastors have done to me, yet he pulls out in a 150k car.

His congregation was taken. 

Im convinced that pastors are no different than rappers

A+ execution

  

 

[patrick bateman]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

When it comes to quoting and embedding Yuku is godawful.�

How can you all honestly quote bible verses and think they're relevant more so TODAY than they were last year, 10 years before that, during Vietnam, WWII, WWI, or any time before that, OR any time in the future?

Every moment in some part of the world feels like the "end is coming"

Where do you draw the line?�

To quote the bible you'd have to assume that the bible is a valid source of information. Why not do THAT first and then talk about finding it necessary to quote.�

Oh so now we we're going from "A higher source doesn't exist ggrr!!11" to "Well, how do we know if the quoted versus are relevant to today?"�

�Sillyputty, and I emphasize on the silly this time, you're still able to explore the books of the Old Testament and discover your history and where you come from. If you can get past placing your focus on stories of snakes and magical trees or beating women for not wearing cloth on the sabbath, you'll come to discover the light that you're obviously missing. I said it before and I'll say it again, dismiss a spiritual being or higher intelligence all you want, but the Society of Jesus�(and I noticed you posted an interesting article the other day regarding Serapis) doesn't exist for fun and games.�
The "holy cross" (cross of tammuz) isn't shown all over the world (including around the necks of pr0n actors) for no reason, with people praying to it like it's going to enhance their lives. The word "God" isn't used in some of the most vial ways for no reason (Exodus 3:14).. Go find out more about those things and come back to me. Don't bring ridiculous questions and nonsense to the table; make connections, ask questions, build your knowledge around these everyday matters then come back. I bet the conversation would get REAL interesting then.

��BTW, I highly doubt you ever watched that video I PM'ed you a while back, please do so putty�

�And honestly, if you're going to come and just start answering my post line by line (which shows you don't get the OVERALL MESSAGE) with the usual childish and atheist-high horse replies, I encourage you not to waste your time and save it, because I won't read it. Do the knowledge and let's talk.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

When it comes to quoting and embedding Yuku is godawful. 

How can you all honestly quote bible verses and think they're relevant more so TODAY than they were last year, 10 years before that, during Vietnam, WWII, WWI, or any time before that, OR any time in the future?

Every moment in some part of the world feels like the "end is coming"

Where do you draw the line? 

To quote the bible you'd have to assume that the bible is a valid source of information. Why not do THAT first and then talk about finding it necessary to quote. 

Oh so now we we're going from "A higher source doesn't exist ggrr!!11" to "Well, how do we know if the quoted versus are relevant to today?" 

 Sillyputty, and I emphasize on the silly this time, you're still able to explore the books of the Old Testament and discover your history and where you come from. If you can get past placing your focus on stories of snakes and magical trees or beating women for not wearing cloth on the sabbath, you'll come to discover the light that you're obviously missing.

So I have to invalidate the first couple chapters of the book for the rest of it to be valid? 

Where do you draw the line?

My point is...you want me to focus on the OT...and claim thats my "history"...but you negate say the ancient chinese writings that are better documented and far better preserved AND PREDATE the bible by hundreds and close to thousands of years.

 I said it before and I'll say it again, dismiss a spiritual being or higher intelligence all you want, but the Society of Jesus (and I noticed you posted an interesting article the other day regarding Serapis) doesn't exist for fun and games.

That was to talk about what those people believed and where certain images came from...not that they mean anything.
I can talk about the story of the Swastika being used by Hindus before Nazi Germany but that doesn't mean that you believe hindus have magic powers.  

The "holy cross" (cross of tammuz) isn't shown all over the world (including around the necks of pr0n actors) for no reason, with people praying to it like it's going to enhance their lives.

Well thats why some muslims wear chains that spell "god" in arabic, right?
Or thats why some hindus wear their religious marker (I forget the name) on their foreheads, right? 

The words "God" and "Lord" ( 

 ) aren't used in some of the most vial ways for no reason (Exodus 3:14)..

You're using the bible to establish the validity of the bible...Thats circular reasoning.

And it doesn't make sense. 

Why use the bible, why not the Vedas? They're older and have been used longer in their present form.

Go find out more about those things and come back to me. Don't bring ridiculous questions and nonsense to the table; make connections, ask questions, build your knowledge around these everyday matters then come back.

Thats what I'm doing...and honestly you're not making any sense.

I bet the conversation would get REAL interesting then. 

  BTW, I highly doubt you ever watched that video I PM'ed you a while back, please do so putty 

I did...and it made massive leaps in assertions and judgements. Nothing made sense.

And honestly, if you're going to come back and just start answering my post line by line (which shows you don't get the OVERALL MESSAGE) with the usual childish and atheist-high horse replies, I encourage you no to waste your time. Do the knowledge and let's talk.

Its high horse when you don't like the answers? Tough. I don't think you're making any sense and I'm telling you where and why I think so. 


Its amazing how its always "elitist" when people just don't think your answers are good enough. I'm telling you explicitly what about your answers I have a problem with. Theres no ambiguity there.

That video is nonsense. It pulls random bible quotes and tries to squeeze them into whatever holes it can and then acts like thats a justification for the validity of the bible. I could do the same with a Harry Potter novel. But on the same accord you want us to ignore very clearly stated parts of the bible but act like the entire thing is still valid.

 

[monstar1]

Read I did not.  Dambs I give none. this is tired