BREAKING: Multiple Shootings Reported at Canadian Parliament in Ottawa

JohnnyRedStorm said:
 
Comparison Ford said:
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
 
Hank Scorpio said:
In CANADA? They have some of the strictest gun laws around.


This is certainly news.
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Goes to show regulation isn't necessarily the remedy for these issues.


We need to do a better job with mental health instead of just drugging people with ailments.
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While I agree that we need better services for the mentally ill (in America, at least), what's the issue with using psychotropic medications?  Do you really think the mentally ill would be doing better without them?

And how do you even know these individuals were all on psychotropic medications?  
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It differs with every issue and person. But some drugs people are prescribed do more damage than good. You don't need to be a genius to know the listed side effects outweigh the potential benefits for some of these drugs.
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Prove it.

I'm assuming you mean SSRIs because they're usually the drug class that gets blamed the most. SSRIs happen to be the most prescribed class of drugs in America.  If they were really the underlying cause behind the majority of mass shootings, we would have way, way more than what we have now. 

Disorders like Clinical Depression, Bipolar Disorder, and Schizophrenia NEED to be treated with medication.  The consequences of these conditions can be grave, and the chances of grave/fatal consequences are MUCH higher when left untreated.  

You blame the drugs, but did it ever occur to you that these people already weren't in the best mental state even before they took them?

Cipro and other antibiotics can have some potentially fatal side effects in extremely rare instances.  Would you encourage someone with a serious infection not to take these medications because of the 1 in a million chance that something might go wrong?
 
Why is it mental health is only an issue with "some" shootings?

Nobody ever talks about the mental health of those kids in Chicago.
 
This isn't the place for the discussion but I visited this museum in LA and it made some good points.

http://www.cchr.org

http://www.cchr.org/museum.html#/museum/intro#/museum/intro

It's more about the misdiagnosis and the way drugs are given to anyone for the slightest ailment than those with full blown mental illness.
Why is it mental health is only an issue with "some" shootings?

Nobody ever talks about the mental health of those kids in Chicago.
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You could argue the violence is a result of their environment.
 
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CashBanks said:
Why is it mental health is only an issue with "some" shootings?

Nobody ever talks about the mental health of those kids in Chicago.
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You can't see the distinction between a mass shooting with a strong belief behind it and gang rivalry?
 
Science also gets disproved at times. Treating people with lobotomies was looked at as normal and positive at one point, right?
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
Science also gets disproved at times. Treating people with lobotomies was looked at as normal and positive at one point, right?
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There's also clinical evidence that demonstrates the efficacy of SSRIs and other psychotropic medications. I asked you to prove your claims back on the first page.  Where's your evidence?

Stay focused.
 
Mark Antony said:
You can't see the distinction between a mass shooting with a strong belief behind it and gang rivalry?
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of course it's different

but you can't tell me that if they underwent the proper testing a good majority of these kids aren't suffering from serious mental health issues

Depression, ptsd etc

that environment alone has to wreak havoc on a young kids mind.
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
I need to provide evidence stating that the side effects of some drugs leads to violence?
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No. You need to prove that the potential for violence is great enough to where the clinically depressed, schizophrenics, and people with bipolar disorder shouldn't take these medications.

Like I said before: Cipro and other antibiotics can have potentially fatal side effects, but the odds of an individual experiencing them is pretty much 1 in a million.  Would you tell people with serious infections not to take these medications because they might have some bad side effects?
 
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Are you a lobbyist for pharmaceutical companies? I don't understand your agenda here that you're sidetracking this thread. Certain drugs have horrible side effects. What people wanna take is on them. But you can't dispute that in a lot of these cases where there are mass shootings, the shooters are on drugs prescribed to them that may have triggered their violence. You go to the shrink, you tell him you've been feeling sad lately, instead of addressing why you're sad, he prescribes you a drug that makes you feel happy. Does that seem normal to you and the best use of science? That instead of addressing someone's psychological issue, we automatically medicate them?
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
Are you a lobbyist for pharmaceutical companies? I don't understand your agenda here that you're sidetracking this thread. Certain drugs have horrible side effects. What people wanna take is on them. But you can't dispute that in a lot of these cases where there are mass shootings, the shooters are on drugs prescribed to them that may have triggered their violence. You go to the shrink, you tell him you've been feeling sad lately, instead of addressing why you're sad, he prescribes you a drug that makes you feel happy. Does that seem normal to you and the best use of science? That instead of addressing someone's psychological issue, we automatically medicate them?
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Yes...because the only reason anyone could be in favor of psychotropic medications is if they're a lobbyist. 
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If you actually want to know, I've suffered with clinical depression for the past 10 years.  I was just like you at the beginning.  I spent two years living in misery because I was so afraid of what taking antidepressants would do to me.  Once I reached the point of bordering on suicidal, I finally decided to bite the bullet. I told every member of my family to keep an eye on me in order to make sure I didn't do anything crazy.  About one week after starting Zoloft, I was back to the old me and I've remained that way ever since.  I eventually got to the point where I could stop taking it and I've been able to manage my condition much better ever since.

I care about issues like this because I can honestly say Zoloft saved my life.  When I see people like yourself propagating anti-psychiatry rhetoric and posting links from organizations founded by the Church of Scientology I get genuinely bummed out.  People suffering from mental illness are in a vulnerable state, and you're really just leading them down the wrong path.

How are you gonna point the finger at me for "sidetracking" this thread when you're the one that brought the issue up (with no evidence at all that this mass shooting had anything to do with individuals on psychotropic meds, mind you)?  This is an open forum for discussion.  Anything anyone writes on here is fair game to comment on.

Also, your view of how mental illness is treated is pretty flawed.  Psychiatrists aren't the "sit on the couch and talk about your feelings for an hour" guys.  You go to a Clinical Psychologist for that.  Ideally, the Psychiatrist would give the individual the medication they need and refer them to a Psychologist to work out their issues or vice/versa.

We can get back to the topic at hand now.
 
Fair response Comparison Ford Comparison Ford and I apologize if my comments were ignorant. I honestly didn't know CCHR was founded by scientology. I'm just not fond of the pharmaceutical system as a whole, and perhaps I let my biases get in the way of reason in this discussion. Thank you for providing a mature response. Sometimes I just wonder if we're too quick to medicate, and if there are better remedies for certain issues. Everything varies with each person and each case, and I didn't mean to come off the wrong way as I may have. I've got a buddy that's mentally ill and it's almost as if he's stuck in a never-ending loop. He's a good kid, but it seems like he has trouble gaining clarity with his life as a whole, and I wonder if that's the result of his condition or the way his condition has been handled. He's been institutionalized a few times, and I wonder how much that may have helped him on his journey.
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
Fair response @Comparison Ford and I apologize if my comments were ignorant. I honestly didn't know CCHR was founded by scientology. I'm just not fond of the pharmaceutical system as a whole, and perhaps I let my biases get in the way of reason in this discussion. Thank you for providing a mature response. Sometimes I just wonder if we're too quick to medicate, and if there are better remedies for certain issues. Everything varies with each person and each case, and I didn't mean to come off the wrong way as I may have. I've got a buddy that's mentally ill and it's almost as if he's stuck in a never-ending loop. He's a good kid, but it seems like he has trouble gaining clarity with his life as a whole, and I wonder if that's the result of his condition or the way his condition has been handled. He's been institutionalized a few times, and I wonder how much that may have helped him on his journey.
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It's cool, man.  No hard feelings.

And I'm with you, in a sense.  Are we a little too eager to medicate in this country?  Speaking as someone that works in healthcare:  absolutely.  I see it all the time.  I'll also add that I don't really agree with medicating for situational depression/anxiety (ex.: death of a loved one, divorce, phobias, etc.).

Hit me up if you have any more questions about vapes. 
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I forgot that was you :lol: I actually quit/took a tolerance break. Needed the clarity to get my priorities in order and take the next step in life.
 
Rest Easy brother

Second attack on CF members this week :smh:

Just received orders to not travel to and from work in uniform and as far as I understand it is Canada wide. I don't think any one of us agrees with this because the uniform is a symbol of strength.
 
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LeanNSupreme said:
Rest Easy brother

Second attack on CF members this week :smh:

Just received orders to not travel to and from work in uniform and as far as I understand it is Canada wide. I don't think any one of us agrees with this because the uniform is a symbol of strength.
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Just read the same thing. Not a fan at all of that stance. While im sure ot it comes out good intentions, it shows extreme weakness. Its frankly an embarrassing response
 
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