Calif. Sheriff's Deputies Shoot, Kill 13-Year-Old

sea manup said:
frostythepoptart said:
Of course not, every innocent kid should be killed for playing with replica toy guns.


better safe than sorry.


there's no other solution.


super soakers, water guns, paint ball guns, plastic guns. Kill every kid in possession of them. Make the world a better place.


That's your idea of a fair world right?
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you really struggle to grasp simple concepts 
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Word.

Dude really said super soakers.
 
Coming from individuals who see no other way to subdue a child who may or may not have a gun other than kill him. we don't even know if he was aiming at the police officer. All we know is he had a toy gun and he didn't "sit"like a dog when the officer gave the order.

Did he threaten anyone, was anyone in immediate danger?

I'd just like to hear some consistency in your disregard for human life, when compared to the value of a police officer's fear. that's the only reason for my examples.

Remember that autistic kid who didn't follow instructions so the cop used a taser on em?

Should've used his gun instead.... right?
 
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CreateDestroy said:
 
frostythepoptart said:
Remember that autistic kid who didn't follow instructions so the cop used a taser on em?

Should've used his gun instead.... right?
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if he appears to be in possession of a deadly weapon....YES
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nah man if you see someone with a gun you should assume its a toy. you need to wait until he shoots you and you get taken to the hospital, only if the certified doctor shows you the bullets that they found inside of you THEN you can believe that it is a real gun
 
frostythepoptart said:
Coming from individuals who see no other way to subdue a child who may or may not have a gun other than kill him. we don't even know if he was aiming at the police officer. All we know is he had a toy gun and he didn't "sit"like a dog when the officer gave the order.

Did he threaten anyone, was anyone in immediate danger?

I'd just like to hear some consistency in your disregard for human life, when compared to the value of a police officer's fear. that's the only reason for my examples.

Remember that autistic kid who didn't follow instructions so the cop used a taser on em?

Should've used his gun instead.... right?
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I'm curious though, what would your response be if this kid had what he had and was walking around a school with his toy? Would your only reaction be to laugh it off and take it as a joke considering all the school shootings that have occurred in these past 15 or so years? I'm not so sure if you're a cop or security guard at a school, your initial reaction would be counter a toy AR that looks frighteningly similar to the real thing, with your taser.

It's a shame the kid died, it really is. He was young and now we know it's a toy, but with unstable "children" and adults out there we keep hearing about everyday, CAN you actually say with confidence that your initial reaction in such a situation wouldn't be fear and trying to survive the situation by all means necessary? Again, we've had the TIME to analyze the situation now but in the heat of the moment and **** goes down, you're not afforded the time, natural survival instincts take over and impair our judgement and knack for reasoning. I don't think I can defend nor blame the cops in this situation. If an AK I don't know is a replica is pointed at me, I'm doing whatever I can to save myself and if I have the means to defend myself, I'm doing it.

We got stick up kids, corrupt cops and crack rocks and stray shots all of the block it stays hot but that discussion needs to be saved for another day.
 
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mugzbo said:
I'm curious though, what would your response be if this kid had what he had and was walking around a school with his toy? Would your only reaction be to laugh it off and take it as a joke considering all the school shootings that have occurred in these past 15 or so years? I'm not so sure if you're a cop or security guard at a school, your initial reaction would be counter a toy AR that looks frighteningly similar to the real thing, with your taser.

It's a shame the kid died, it really is. He was young and now we know it's a toy, but with unstable "children" and adults out there we keep hearing about everyday, CAN you actually say with confidence that your initial reaction in such a situation wouldn't be fear and trying to survive the situation by all means necessary? Again, we've had the TIME to analyze the situation now but in the heat of the moment and **** goes down, you're not afforded the time, natural survival instincts take over and impair our judgement and knack for reasoning. I don't think I can defend nor blame the cops in this situation. If an AK I don't know is a replica is pointed at me, I'm doing whatever I can to save myself and if I have the means to defend myself, I'm doing it.

We got stick up kids, corrupt cops and crack rocks and stray shots all of the block it stays hot but that discussion needs to be saved for another day.
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They weren't put in danger, they arrived at the scene and approached what they decided was danger but it turned out it wasn't. If the boy raised the gun at the officers then fine

trained professionals are taught to kill dangerous children.

If a tactical legal gang can't work together to subdue a child without killing him, then I don't know what to say.

My brainstorming as an untrained professional: 1. repeat commanded order from behind your car or somewhere where you will be safe.
2. warning shots.
3. approaching with weapons drawn keeping an eye out for sudden movements.
4. shooting a nonlethal area like legs.

Literally all a police officer ever has to say to justify a murder is I was scared. If a cop died tomorrow because he ran up on someone without first identifying who he was the murderer would get the book thrown at him and no one would take a second to hear his side of the story.

We're in a world where we live in fear of cops, and in fear of cops fear. Cause that means a justified death sentence.
 
1. SMH there could be a dangerous person on the street holding an AK but these cowards are hiding behind a door

2. SMH these idiots shooting at nothing, what if they would have shot someone?

3. lets wait until the ak is pointed at you until you feel in danger, as a cop im going to protect myself from any dangers i see and not try to play quick draw with people

4. SMH cops shooting kids in the legs now, i guess its okay to go around shooting kids with super soakers in the legs too
 
sea manup said:
1. SMH there could be a dangerous person on the street holding an AK but these cowards are hiding behind a door

2. SMH these idiots shooting at nothing, what if they would have shot someone?

3. lets wait until the ak is pointed at you until you feel in danger, as a cop im going to protect myself from any dangers i see and not try to play quick draw with people

4. SMH cops shooting kids in the legs now, i guess its okay to go around shooting kids with super soakers in the legs too
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you can complain about anything that is true.

but protecting a child's life is worth the complaints.
 
Dathbgboy said:
:smh: Kid should have complied but at the same time, these cops act like deadly force is the only method. Shoot the kid in the leg or somethin.
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So if not deadly force, what kind of "force" are they supposed to use when they think a teenager has an assault rifle and isn't dropping the weapon?

And don't be dumb guys, cops aim for center mass when shooting. They aren't going to be aiming for no damn legs.

I swear some of you are so simple.

:smh:
 
frostythepoptart said:
sea manup said:
how is walking down a street with soemthing that looks exactly like an AK and not putting it down when the police tell you to "doing nothing wrong"

in what country would it be okay to do that?
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Did he aim it at the officer?

He did nothing wrong because it was a harmless ******g toy. :x
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Just stop, you sound dumb as hell.

The kid got told to put the gun down twice, and he didn't. There are witnesses to that. And how the **** were the cops supposed to know the gun was fake? Have you NOT seen the pictures? The kid has what looks to be an ak-47 in his hand, the cops tell him to put it down twice, he doesn't and then proceeds to turn to the cops with the gun in hand. What do you expect them to do, ask the kid if it's a real gun?
 
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Kid was 13 and had enough common sense to drop it when they him to, but he didn't.
He pointed the gun at the cops so they shot him. I woulda done the same if I was a cop
And woulda lost no sleep over it.
 
real talk, if I saw a kid in my neighborhood carrying what was in that pic.....I might call the police my damn self.
 
They should sticky this



IF THE COPS DRAW THEIR GUNS ON YOU THEY'RE NOT AIMING FOR YOUR LEGS, YOUR TOE, YOUR PINKY, ETC. DON'T POINT BB GUNS AT COPS
 
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Cops shoot to Kill.

I thought everyone knew that.

4 yeas ago, one of my boys had a BB gun and the cop pointed a gun at him and told him to drop it or he will shoot him. He dropped that BB gun quick as **** and got arrested. 
 
"
Posted at: 10/25/2013 10:42 AM
Updated at: 10/25/2013 2:15 PM

Print Story Email to a Friend

Family Wants Answers After Austin Man Killed by Police

(ABC 6 NEWS) -- The Hennepin County sheriff's office is investigating an officer-involved shooting that killed an Austin man in Minnetonka.

Police say officers were called to an apartment building around 8:30 p.m. Wednesday on a report about a person with a gun.

Arriving officers found Michael Regner Tray, 27, with a gun in the underground garage. Details are limited, but police say shots were fired and Tray died at the scene.

Jim Greer, Tray's step-father, said, "This is not a kid who deserves this."

In an interview with ABC 6 News, Greer said he knew his step-son had the gun and he wished Tray had locked it up.

The family is still looking for answers as to why police used deadly force.

"If Mike was told to put down his weapon, he would have," Greer said.

Tray graduated from Austin high school and was both a basketball and football player.

We'll have more reaction from the Tray/Greer family coming up tonight on ABC 6 News. "

Just came across this. Here's my issue. What kind of story is this? Why are police allowed time to figure out and craft their story? There should be a forced debriefing of some sort that's a public record immediately after something like this. A neighbor calls the cops on a man in his garage with his own legally owned gun. The cops arrive and kill them. "Cause they're scared"
 
My question is, if the parents spoke Spanish did the kid not understand English?
Was he asked in Spanish & English or was it just assumed?
Also, 7 shots to put down a boy?
I mean, a shot to the leg or arm could have sufficed.
 
TIMELINE: DECISION TO SHOOT BOY MADE IN 10 SECONDS







SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Ten seconds.


That's how much time passed after a California sheriff's deputy reported a suspicious person to dispatch then called back to say shots had been fired.

The shots killed 13-year-old Andy Lopez on Tuesday afternoon in a blue-collar neighborhood in Santa Rosa. Police say Lopez was carrying a pellet gun that looked like an AK-47 assault rifle.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation announced late Friday that it is conducting its own investigation of the shooting, which has outraged many local residents who are demanding to know whether the shooting was justified.

More than 100 angry middle and high school students walked to City Hall on Friday, the Santa Rosa Press Democrat reported. Hundreds of people protested earlier in the week.

City police and the Sonoma County district attorney's office are also investigating.

In a statement Friday, Sheriff Steve Freitas said he would cooperate fully with the FBI inquiry, and he expressed sympathy for the Lopez family. He also thanked the community for keeping protests peaceful.

The dispatch timeline released by the Santa Rosa Police Department showed that two deputies in a squad car encountered the hoodie-wearing Lopez just after 3:14 p.m.

Witnesses say at least one of the deputies took cover behind an open front door of the cruiser, and one yelled twice "drop the gun."

Ten seconds after their initial report to dispatch, one of the officers called in "shot have been fired."

Sixteen seconds later, the deputies were calling for medical help. Cruz was later pronounced dead at the scene. The Sonoma County coroner said he found seven "apparent entry wounds," two of them fatal.

The deputies, who have not been identified, have been placed on paid administrative leave, which is standard after a shooting, officials said.

Assistant Sheriff Lorenzo Duenas told the Press Democrat that the deputy who shot the teen is a 24-year veteran and his partner, who did not fire his weapon, is a new hire.

Santa Rosa police Lt. Paul Henry told the newspaper the deputy who opened fire later told investigators he believed his life as well his partner's was in jeopardy. The deputy said the teen didn't comply with commands to drop the gun and was turning toward the deputies while raising the barrel.

"The deputy's mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot," Henry said at a Wednesday news conference.

Geoffrey Alpert, a professor of criminology at the University of South Carolina, said officers are typically justified in the use of deadly force when they sincerely believe lives are at stake.

If the teen was raising the barrel of the gun toward officers, they had little choice about firing, Alpert said.

"If it's a pink bubble gum gun and an obvious fake to most, then there is no reason to shoot," he said. "But if the gun looks real the barrel is being pointed at you ... it's unfortunate, but a perceived threat trumps age and the officers have to protect themselves."

Hundreds of community members marched Wednesday night to remember the teen and protest the shooting.

They covered more than three miles from Santa Rosa City Hall to the field where Andy Lopez was killed. Some lit candles and placed flowers at a makeshift memorial with printed pictures of the victim, stuffed animals and a balloon that read "RIP Andy L."
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seems to match the information that we already knew. wonder what the FBI investigation will uncover 
 
If I tell I kid to drop the gun twice and he turns around while raising the gun. I'm firing shots too
 
I saw somewhere that the kid was in a popular neighborhood lot where the local kids go to shoot their BB Guns and he had headphones so he didn't hear any instructions.

When he faced the officers to see what was going on he was shot before he had a chance to react.
 
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