I can't speak for everyone (which I know upsets you because you're trying to argue by proxy with people who aren't here (like your coworkers) rather than engage with what discussion participants are actually saying), but when Dave says things like "your people" should stop punching down on "my people," where do Black trans people fit in to that?
It could be that he's referring specifically to his White critics who have the power to "punch down" via White privilege. Yet, if that's so, then where is the acknowledgement that he has, in fact, demeaned Black trans people with some of his recent jokes?
Absolutely call out the vicious hypocrisy of the Caitlyn Jenners of the world - but don't gloss over the potential impact of broadly transphobic "jokes" on Black trans people, some of whose justifiable displeasure with Dave's recent sets cannot reasonably qualify as "punching down."
You want to talk about Jaclyn Moore's take. You don't want to talk about Raquel Willis'. Why?
There are Black trans people who oppose Netflix's decision to spend millions of dollars to produce multiple comedy specials mocking trans people, which are then broadcast around the world through the company's massive distribution platform. There are Black trans people who are largely unbothered by it. One thing we should all agree on, though, is that Black trans people
exist, and yet Dave repeatedly presents the struggle for trans rights as if it is
competing with the struggle for racial equality.
The idea that trans people are all White, and, thus, privileged, is not without consequence. The lack of intersectional awareness here masks the ways in which Black trans people simultaneously experience multiple forms of discrimination.
When we talk about potential impacts, it is worth noting that, as a group, Black trans people are disproportionately subject to violence. Hate crimes are drastically under-reported, making it difficult to develop truly representative data, but if you are unmoved by the number of dead then that, itself, is revealing. This isn't about one statistic, which, again, isn't central to the argument of anyone actually participating in this discussion with you, or one study. It's about the ways in which hostility towards trans people can exert a disproportionate, additive impact on those who experience oppression along multiple axes of social inequality.
In their analysis of nearly 26,000 person survey, the Trevor Project found that nearly one in three Black trans people under 24 reportedly attempted suicide - which is not only disproportionate relative to young trans people as a whole, but was also
double percentage among gay, lesbian, and queer Black respondents.
If your first instinct is to attack the data, that
could be because you're just that committed to high quality research - but, that explanation is kind of hard to take when you're out here uncritically citing someone who believes that hate crimes
generally - including racist hate crimes - are a "hoax" by the left. Somehow, I doubt you took the time to double check
their methods before "signal boosting" their conclusions.
This is yet another instance of you arguing by proxy with those who aren't here. Take it up with Caleb and Haley.
Then your "entire beef" is a nothing burger. "Our" in the sentence "You don't live in the United States, but you want to argue with people who do because you think our desire to defund the police goes "too far," refers to the group of people with whom you were quarreling over the "defund" movement in the Political Discussion Thread. "They" would not have been appropriate in this instance, as I was among them. Thus, "our."
"Impermissible form of artistic expression?" You see anybody talking about hauling Dave off in handcuffs?
This is a
product, distributed globally by a publicly traded company.
So often, the fight against "cancel culture" is a fight against accountability.
If you have an opinion, I'm allowed to have an opinion about your opinion. If Tucker Carlson spews hate speech every night on Fox, I am well within my rights to
boycott his sponsors. (A
fait accompli, since I'm not a Christian retiree.)
I don't have to agree that your opinion is of much worth on matters that do not affect you, however.
Dave can, and does, say what he wants. He's not exempt from criticism, especially from those who feel adversely impacted by mainstream ridicule.
We can agree on this, and, though we disagree as to the extent of that impact, we should at least be able to agree that it
exists.
If you're cool with streaming services selling edge lord "comedy" on how maybe slavery was actually
good, that's your prerogative - but the crux of the issue isn't whether someone is "permitted" to create "art," which is a free speech issue, but whether we ought to support the corporations that sell it as
product.
You don't seem to understand that I'm not making this declaration by
fiat, but relaying what I've
directly seen while moderating this forum. People are posting anti-trans comments from this special on our site verbatim. That's not a matter of speculation or inference.
It is happening.
Anti-trans content preceded and will undoubtedly follow Dave's Netflix specials, so while you might contest the influence of this particular special on the current uptick in transphobic posts, you cannot deny its influence where Dave
himself is being quoted or referenced.
That is what makes it undeniable.
But tell me again about how much you despise “mind reading.”
Rusty beat me to the .gif. I can't top that and won't try. *chef's kiss*
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to read books than watch whatever video Youtube's recommendation algorithm spits at me, or whatever article I can scrape up from Google whose title appears to align with my preconceived notions about a topic. I'm hardly alone in this. Books are referenced in our forums all the time. As a habit, I try to make it clear when I'm presenting something that is informed by or drawn directly from the work of others. I'm not entirely sure why you consider this inappropriate or even unusual enough to warrant comment.
Nevertheless, if you're waiting with "baited bread" on my latest literary name drop, let me help you: I already referenced
The Sum of Us in a previous post.
I'd rather cite a book than plagiarize a substack article.
Perhaps, in your mind, that makes me "weird."
I can live with that.
It's worth noting that Dave is mocking trans people's "hurt feelings" over his recent material, yet when he successfully lobbied Netflix brass to remove Chappelle's Show from the service, he told them it
"makes me feel bad."
He used similar phrasing when critiquing Key & Peele:
Chappelle visited 'CBS This Morning' ahead of his two new Netflix specials, out Tuesday.
www.usatoday.com
I don't know (or care to know) many people who would take Comedy Central's side in its dispute with Dave. Though we've heard multiple explanations for his decision to walk away, one of the most prevailing and, in my opinion, noble motives was Dave's reported sense that the show was getting away from him - that Comedy Central wanted more "racial humor," that White kids were thoughtlessly imitating lines from the show, and that he would not be a party to minstrelsy for
any amount of money.
I would dispute the notion that Dave doesn't care what people think, or what impact his material may have. How much of this latest special was a direct response to feedback on his previous specials?
For much of this country's history, cishet White men could push hateful stereotypes across the entire world through “art,” and those responsible would never have to hear a word from those they harmed for their own selfish amusement and profit. They preached to their choir, reaffirmed each other's prejudices, and inculcated countless people with their narcissism and bigotry.
Today, those targeted by such messages have a way to speak back. We can, do, and must hold those responsible to account (corporations, primarily), for that is the only way we've thus far managed to make any progress.
When Dave uses his voice to stand against it – as he has in his comedy, as he has in his laudable decision to
step away from comedy, he is participating in this process. He is not immune from it.
We are not all equally capable of causing harm, but we are responsible for the harm we cause.
Dude Netflix is trying to control the bad PR, that is it.
