DC Studios THREAD - GunnVerse Begins - Chapter ONE: Gods & Monsters

[osh kosh bosh]

There's no evidence that they don't see it that way either.

Static and Black Lightning aren't D-List heroes and the path they took to elevating Cyborg wasn't hard. And i'd hardly call Cyborg a B-List hero. It's not as if he gained his own solo show and they had to make that work. He was in a successful animated show years ago and come 2011 they decided to put him on the JLA. In terms of representation, Black Lightning had more than him until that moment, as did Static arguably. You could've placed any black character in that position and the result would've been the same, which is what happened with John Stewart.

Well they didn't age Cyborg up, so its irrelevant. Don't know that i'd say Static's a kid. He's well-known as a teenager, just like Peter Parker. Cyborg in fact is just like Peter, a character that started as a teenager and then grew up, so he's now in his early 20's. You've got Spider-Man over in Marvel also about to be introduced as a teenager, once again, so it's not like a teenager couldn't work.

And i'm not and never have said there wasn't logic behind choosing Cyborg. All i've said is that every reason you've provided either isn't exclusive to him or concerns something that they could've done with anybody.

1. I mean they chose Cyborg. Cyborg has his own stand alone comic series. Cyborg has a movie, Cyborg is who they put in the forefront and Hal Jordan is the main GL. So i don't think i'm stretching.

2. the new 52 him up, he was a teen, now he's 5 years outta high school he was aged up.

3. so what your saying is that DC should make the same mistake marvel did and aging up peter parker? a very expensive mistake that made sony enter an insane faustian bargain with marvel so they could turn him back into a kid?

aging up static shock would be stupid, being young is central to the character, joe quesada had to come up with that insane one more day story line to make peter young again. he's best as a kid, static shock is best as kid.

its irrelvent anyways because they aren't breaking bread with Milestone for static shock of all people.

 

[sea manup]

 

im telling yall... we need a black bruce wayne 

Thats basically MR Terrific, he just a stupid name and a dumb costume.

is a black man wearing black face racist? 

 

[jays25]

There's no evidence that they don't see it that way either.

Static and Black Lightning aren't D-List heroes and the path they took to elevating Cyborg wasn't hard. And i'd hardly call Cyborg a B-List hero. It's not as if he gained his own solo show and they had to make that work. He was in a successful animated show years ago and come 2011 they decided to put him on the JLA. In terms of representation, Black Lightning had more than him until that moment, as did Static arguably. You could've placed any black character in that position and the result would've been the same, which is what happened with John Stewart.

Well they didn't age Cyborg up, so its irrelevant. Don't know that i'd say Static's a kid. He's well-known as a teenager, just like Peter Parker. Cyborg in fact is just like Peter, a character that started as a teenager and then grew up, so he's now in his early 20's. You've got Spider-Man over in Marvel also about to be introduced as a teenager, once again, so it's not like a teenager couldn't work.

And i'm not and never have said there wasn't logic behind choosing Cyborg. All i've said is that every reason you've provided either isn't exclusive to him or concerns something that they could've done with anybody.

1. I mean they chose Cyborg. Cyborg has his own stand alone comic series. Cyborg has a movie, Cyborg is who they put in the forefront and Hal Jordan is the main GL. So i don't think i'm stretching.

2. the new 52 him up, he was a teen, now he's 5 years outta high school he was aged up.

3. so what your saying is that DC should make the same mistake marvel did and aging up peter parker? a very expensive mistake that made sony enter an insane faustian bargain with marvel so they could turn him back into a kid?

aging up static shock would be stupid, being young is central to the character, joe quesada had to come up with that insane one more day story line to make peter young again. he's best as a kid, static shock is best as kid.

its irrelvent anyways because they aren't breaking bread with Milestone for static shock of all people.

1. All of that is the result of them choosing Cyborg. The reasons why they chose Cyborg however could've been anything. Your argument relies on the idea that at the time of the New 52 reboot they had everything that's come since planned for the character, which there's no proof of. Hence me saying, they could've used anyone.

2. No. Pre-New 52 **** Grayson, Cyborg, Starfire, Aqualad/Tempest, Wally West, and their contemporaries were all in their 20's. LOL they were Teens back in the 80s.

3. How was aging Peter a mistake? He's still aged in the comics now and has been for decades. You're blaming the failure of the Sony films on Peter being older? How does that work or change the fact that they're then still writing him as older in their comic books?

I didn't say age Static after pointing out that they didn't age Cyborg as you claimed. Static is a teenager and always has been. They could keep him there. But if they did, after writing him as a teenager for some time, have him reach adulthood like they did with Peter it wouldn't flop if done properly. It'd be natural growth, just like Peter's was. Youn Justice Static is 15. Not really what i'd call a kid.

Except Peter Parker after One More Day is still an adult. The **** are you talking about? He didn't become younger at all. You're heavily confused. One More Day erased his marraige to MJ and in fact only erased the marriage. They still ALMOST got married. All that happened was the wedding getting called off. Peter Parker is then currently running a billion dollar business as the CEO. But they de-aged him right? Come on son.

 

[Master Zik]

DC doesn't even own the rights to Static Shock to put him in the movie. All they have is a distribution deal with Milestone Media.


So unless a deal is made don't expect to see Static in any of these DC movies.

Really? Are rights for use in cartoons different? Because Static is in Young Justice. 

That was during the time Milestone Media launched the Static Shock cartoon and after that was done he showed up in some JL eps (I think that's what you're referring to). It was very tongue and cheek stuff.

Some agreement was reached but it wasn't long term.

I know for comics one of the guys said that Static and other Dakotaverse characters were allowed to be used in the DC universe as long as they gave the okay and they always got a percentage of profits. Which is why after the Static comic crashed and burned he hasn't been seen since and was phased out of the JLU comic.

Static, John Stewart, or Black Lightning. He's a B-Green Lantern because that's how he's treated. Just like Cyborg was a strictly Teen Titans character until they promoted him to the Justice League. Heck, all of those characters you mentioned, regardless of where they are, are B to C list characters, though John is the only one who could really be argued to be an A-list hero. In that way, if you're making a push to move them into the spotlight, it doesn't matter where they were before. What matters if what you do to move them from that position. John Stewart especially could have easily filled the role, since many already associated him as being a major African American figure in DC, not only from the comics, but the successful JL/JLU animated series as well. With the failure of the GL film featuring Hal Jordan that was the perfect opportunity to push John as a character. Especially because it's really not that hard to do so with the Lanterns. Hal Jordan was dead for years, along with the entire Corps for that matter, and Green Lantern kept chugging on as a franchise. It's even easier because John is already so popular and as far as the comics go you've got more than one GL series anyways. So you wouldn't even have to kill Hal off again in the wake of the movie.

And Cyborg is also younger than the rest of the people on the League, so that's irrelevant in regards to Static.

i don't like cyborg either, im just explaining DC's logic.

on jon stewert its one thing to be b-c list character and another thing to be a secondary version of character that was conceived of as white. and given that DC went to all the trouble to bring Hal back I think if they want THE black guy to exist across all media including comics it can't be Jon.

no one knows who black lighting is.
They've aged Cyborg up in the comics.


Me perosnally I would have rather had Stewert as GL or Mr Terrific or VIxen I don't like Cyborg, but I see why they did it, he's the most well known least compromised character.

I feel like they had other options. Could've elevated another female to the JL. I don't completely agree about Vixen and right now it seems like DC is half-wanting to promote her.

If we're just looking at black characters back in 2011 (since this is when all of DC changed things up with Cyborg for the New 52), I still feel they could've done other things. Give the JL a magic based character. Is a new character (by an A-list creative team) that much more risky than a b-list character with other characters with the same name? or b/c-list character on a kid team? It's 2016 now, DC could've had a possibly a more appealing black Doctor Strange by now.

You're right about others like Mr. Terrific but even he is a sort of legacy character. As for Jon Stewart, yeah some may have wondered about Hal but it aint like he's the first anyway. Homey with the cape and red in his costume was the first anyway but I guess that's due to all of the DC reboots. I mean we got generations of fandom that prefer 3 different guys as Flash. So I don't see that as a big problem in why they couldn't choose Jon.

Also a half measure with MM is better than Cyborg.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Didn't expect this thread to get lit over Cyborg of all topics

 

[osh kosh bosh]

1. All of that is the result of them choosing Cyborg. The reasons why they chose Cyborg however could've been anything. Your argument relies on the idea that at the time of the New 52 reboot they had everything that's come since planned for the character, which there's no proof of. Hence me saying, they could've used anyone.

2. No. Pre-New 52 **** Grayson, Cyborg, Starfire, Aqualad/Tempest, Wally West, and their contemporaries were all in their 20's. LOL they were Teens back in the 80s.

3. How was aging Peter a mistake? He's still aged in the comics now and has been for decades. You're blaming the failure of the Sony films on Peter being older? How does that work or change the fact that they're then still writing him as older in their comic books?

I didn't say age Static after pointing out that they didn't age Cyborg as you claimed. Static is a teenager and always has been. They could keep him there. But if they did, after writing him as a teenager for some time, have him reach adulthood like they did with Peter it wouldn't flop if done properly. It'd be natural growth, just like Peter's was. Youn Justice Static is 15. Not really what i'd call a kid.

Except Peter Parker after One More Day is still an adult. The **** are you talking about? He didn't become younger at all. You're heavily confused. One More Day erased his marraige to MJ and in fact only erased the marriage. They still ALMOST got married. All that happened was the wedding getting called off. Peter Parker is then currently running a billion dollar business as the CEO. But they de-aged him right? Come on son.

You can look at the sony leaks for Marvels opinions on how old spidey should be.

Yes im aware they didn't literally make him younger, what im saying is that being married and living the life of an adult. had to be removed, they couldn't just suddenly make him younger without a total reboot so they just erased the adult aspects of his life. because spider man is best when he is younger. any diversion from this in comics is a temporary status quo.

CEO spiderman is about as permanent as doc ock spiderman.

being a young high scholer is central to the identity of the character as it is with static shock.


but this is pointless conversation due to the rights issues.

we can agree to disagree. Its pretty clear to me that at some point pre 52 the decision was made that Cyborg is the black hero of DC, and so him being the movie character became inveitable.

 

[jays25]

1. All of that is the result of them choosing Cyborg. The reasons why they chose Cyborg however could've been anything. Your argument relies on the idea that at the time of the New 52 reboot they had everything that's come since planned for the character, which there's no proof of. Hence me saying, they could've used anyone.

2. No. Pre-New 52 **** Grayson, Cyborg, Starfire, Aqualad/Tempest, Wally West, and their contemporaries were all in their 20's. LOL they were Teens back in the 80s.

3. How was aging Peter a mistake? He's still aged in the comics now and has been for decades. You're blaming the failure of the Sony films on Peter being older? How does that work or change the fact that they're then still writing him as older in their comic books?

I didn't say age Static after pointing out that they didn't age Cyborg as you claimed. Static is a teenager and always has been. They could keep him there. But if they did, after writing him as a teenager for some time, have him reach adulthood like they did with Peter it wouldn't flop if done properly. It'd be natural growth, just like Peter's was. Youn Justice Static is 15. Not really what i'd call a kid.

Except Peter Parker after One More Day is still an adult. The **** are you talking about? He didn't become younger at all. You're heavily confused. One More Day erased his marraige to MJ and in fact only erased the marriage. They still ALMOST got married. All that happened was the wedding getting called off. Peter Parker is then currently running a billion dollar business as the CEO. But they de-aged him right? Come on son.

You can look at the sony leaks for Marvels opinions on how old spidey should be.

Yes im aware they didn't literally make him younger, what im saying is that being married and living the life of an adult. had to be removed, they couldn't just suddenly make him younger without a total reboot so they just erased the adult aspects of his life. because spider man is best when he is younger. any diversion from this in comics is a temporary status quo.

CEO spiderman is about as permanent as doc ock spiderman.

being a young high scholer is central to the identity of the character as it is with static shock.


but this is pointless conversation due to the rights issues.

we can agree to disagree. Its pretty clear to me that at some point pre 52 the decision was made that Cyborg is the black hero of DC, and so him being the movie character became inveitable.

Except he was (And is) still living outside of his aunt's house, had his own job, was trying to start his own career, etc. The only thing that was removed was the marriage and it again still almost happened, which then acknowledges that the character was old enough to get married in the first place. And One More Day was then one of the most hated decisions of all time, with Quaseda still being equal to mud with the Spider-Man fanbase, because people loved that relationship and hated its replacement. Spider-Man and MJ were married from 1987 to 2007. Temporary? Spider-Man hasn't been in high school since 1965. Central to the character? The number of people that think the character has to be in high school to work are few and far between. Probably because the majority of his career has been spent outside of it. You then have this being adapted for films and animated shows like Spider-Man the Animated Series, in which he also got married, and was hugely successful and popular. But people hate the marriage right?

Definitely agree to disagree. Decision was made to push Cyborg into the spotlight, but the same decision could've been made for multiple other characters and Cyborg isn't special in that regard.

 

[IATT]

i don't think they should do a cyborg origin movie..

i think his origin should be told like it is in the animated movie 'justice league: war'.. where he's a casualty of whatever breaks out in the world and his dad has to transform him to save him 

so the triggering event that leads to the JL actually getting together, will be the same event that leads to him being cyborg

 

[Master Zik]

We can't seriously have somehow gotten to Spidey is best as a teenager in HS especially when in the comics he hasn't been that for like 40-50 years. Guess you could bring up Ultimate comics but even then he just died.

Marvel wants a teenage Spidey cuz it's best for their universe and plan going forward. Keep him young so the audience and can watch him grow up over 15 years.

In the hypothetical situation where DC could use Static, it'd be harder since there isn't decades of source material to mine adult Static stories.

As for Cyborg, I almost feel he was pushed cuz he has nothing going for him. There's no interest. Might be potential but DC hasn't looked to explore it until recently. He's just a black face they can prop up and say see we got a black guy on the JL.

Also, the real reason Jon Stewart isn't on the JL across the board is cuz Geoff Johns is in love with Hal Jordan and brought him back.

Didn't expect this thread to get lit over Cyborg of all topics

It's more about the lack of black superheroes.

Same thing popped off when WB/DC announced their future movie plans and we saw a solo Cyborg on it.

It just goes to the problem of comics being weak on that kind of representation. DC just has it particularly bad compared to it's main competition (not that Marvel was miles ahead on this topic).

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

I count Milestone as DC

 

[Master Zik]

I get it. I use to but aint a whole lot of interaction.

They merged universes for a bit, Static was a Titan, Icon fought Superman and may have been on the bigger JL roster, etc.

Most of the key things you probably remember were probably the only instances of real same universe stuff.

 

[jays25]

i don't think they should do a cyborg origin movie..

i think his origin should be told like it is in the animated movie 'justice league: war'.. where he's a casualty of whatever breaks out in the world and his dad has to transform him to save him 

so the triggering event that leads to the JL actually getting together, will be the same event that leads to him being cyborg

Agreed all around. Really just think that you can't go wrong with the formula Marvel laid down. Who got their own films? The big guns: Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and Hulk. In-between all of that you introduced and fleshed out the rest of the team with appearances for Black Widow and Hawkeye, while at the same time introducing fan favorites Nick Fury and Agent Coulson, along with supporting casts for each character. You then have it all come together phenomonally in Avengers.

Marvel even took it a step, and a smart one at that, further by having Netflix shows that tie into the films with Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and the Defenders, to throw some love towards their less prominent properties, works that might not have fit the big screen, and to generally just cut down on the time and money it'd take to get them all out there in terms of films. Now, years later, you've got them nearly ready to bring it all together for a major payoff with Infinity War. Really don't think they made a single mistake (I mean some films were naturally better than others, but in terms of setup things are perfect).

Then you look at DC and they look like they're doing some basterdized rush job: Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, and then Justice League? Lineup still makes no sense to me in all honesty. Flash, Aquaman, and Shazam (If those are the films they really want to do) should be taking place before Justice League 1 at the least. Cyborg doesn't need his own movie and should be appearing just like you said, similar to Natasha and Clint and I might've said DC could've done some teamup films with a few heroes. Like they've got Booster Gold and Blue Beetle however many years from now and Superman and Batman now. Why not Flash and GL too? I get why Batman doesn't have his own film set right now. With Nolan's trilogy still fairly recent in everyone's minds people are honestly good with that. But you definitely need a few films like Wonder Woman and Flash before JL. And I still think they should've found a way to tie their live actions shows going right now into these films.

Also, the real reason Jon Stewart isn't on the JL across the board is cuz Geoff Johns is in love with Hal Jordan and brought him back.

And Barry Allen, can't forget his hard-on for Allen either.

 

[polosanddunks]

at the 40 year old Superman

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

I ain't eem know that it was officially Hal over Jon

The dynamic between the two would have been perfect for the GL movie. One a seasoned veteran, and one a rookie to introduce us to the cosmic DC movie verse

 

[Master Zik]

I mean I get that dynamic but it's hard to think of Jon as a rookie given his background in the armed forces.

That kind of thing worked with Sinestro and Hal but Hal is like the same age as Jon. Plus that'd mean Hal been a GL this entire time.

I preferred the Hal is dead/disappeared and then comes back as Parallax.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

In the comics, Jon was chosen because they needed another replacement and Guy Gardner was out of action.

Hal actually didn't like Jon at first because Jon didn't respond well to authority and IIRC there was a tinge of some sort of racial conflict in the early days. That would be perfect since WB likes to make these weird left field decisions with their movies.

I feel like we have enough of Hal as the new hotshot guy. His rep when he actually came back in Geoff Johns' book was as the legendary GL veteran. Might as well let that translate to film since they're going with old Battfleck.

And they get their black Leaguer with that too. Have Hal disappear/die (to become parallax) in the GL movie so he is MIA for the JL movies. Then the GL sequel can be Stewart, potentially another Earth GL, and the whole Corps fighting to defeat/save Hal/Parallax.

GL is lowkey DC's best franchise and they don't eem know it

 

[Master Zik]

Maybe but Batman has continually been showing and proving. When they finally did get around to GL they **** the bed something fierce.

I'm not the biggest fan but I dunno if they get around to making great movies with the GL franchise.

 

[polosanddunks]

If that GL movie had ended up being good man a lot of things would be different right now i think.

In a way im kinda glad that movie **** the bed

 

[Master Zik]

If the GL movie was good, we probably don't get MOS the way it is that's for sure.

The tone for GL was like Ant-Man lite. If it was a success, the Superman movie would've been so different

And think about it, there'd definitely be no Deadpool.

 

[polosanddunks]

If the GL movie was good, we probably don't get MOS the way it is that's for sure.

The tone for GL was like Ant-Man lite. If it was a success, the Superman movie would've been so different

And think about it, there'd definitely be no Deadpool.

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[jays25]

GL is lowkey DC's best franchise and they don't eem know it

Definitely don't capitalize on it, especially with the wide cast of characters that specific franchise brings to the table.

 

[everysingletime]

DC should've known that GL bombed not because of its tone but because it was a bad movie

 

[law3001]

DC should've known that GL bombed not because of its tone but because it was a bad movie

Oh they knew, but once you put up 250,000,000 you gotta put it out and try to make some of that back

 

[everysingletime]

Idk, if they had known, I felt they would've stuck to the GL tone and just improve script/cgi

 

[Master Zik]

DC should've known that GL bombed not because of its tone but because it was a bad movie

And it's stuff like that which has been my common beef with them over time. Now we got Superman who will murder if he has to. Straight up Batman tone across the board

Everything from the execs @ WB, producers, etc. has been about unlike Marvel we're willing to go dark and make our movies more adult. It's a crock of ****. Let GL do huge #s and they would've went that way.