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[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Lastly, just to play devil's advocate - MJ never won without Pippen. 

as if losing to Bird Mchale & Parrish is a knock on your career when all you had was Orlando Woolridge & Quintin Dailey.

What about Kobe only losing when he had Odom, Walton, Smush, Kwame, and Mihm?
Thanks for making my point.

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Lastly, just to play devil's advocate - MJ never won without Pippen. 

as if losing to Bird Mchale & Parrish is a knock on your career when all you had was Orlando Woolridge & Quintin Dailey.

What about Kobe only losing when he had Odom, Walton, Smush, Kwame, and Mihm?
Thanks for making my point.

What point? Did EYE ever say that "Kobe never won without shaq"?

It's clear people who say such things should be put in the "troll" category & ignored.

 

[quik1987]

Originally Posted by Goldmember

Originally Posted by quik1987

Originally Posted by PRIME

Originally Posted by LA Lakers 8




True, but it goes both ways. Without Kobe or Wade, Shaq would have zero as well.





Without Pippen, how many rings would MJ have? Not 6.

Yeah, but his point is, Kobe got 2 more without Shaq. 
Shaq needed a young slasher to get rings, while of course both Kobe and Wade needed a dominant big man, but Kobe has shown that even without a HOF big man, he could still get the job done with the pieces he was given. 

Shaq has had Penny, Kobe, Wade, Lebron, AND the big 3 in Boston and could't get it done after Miami. 

Kobe kept it going, Shaq (with age working against him) had a shorter Championship run. 

But either way, they all needed each other. 

But the whole point of this thread is that it's in Jordan's era.



You think the team that Kobe beat the Magic and Celtics with could beat the 96-98 bulls?

What kind of stupid questions is this? Both teams were coached by Phil Jackson..
and yea.. he'd do fine in MJ's era..

So you can't cancel out Phil?

MJ/Pip would shut Kobe down on D
Rodman would piss of Pau
Rodman would grab all rebounds
Bynum would have an alright series

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by KenJi714

What people forget or purposely didn't mention is the Bulls had a bunch of veterans and great shooters. They might not have a legit all star center but they did have great role players and pure shooters around Pip and MJ

And MJ have two great HOFer perimeter defender/rebounder name Pippen and Rodman . MJ didn't have to do much on the perimeter as far as guarding the other team best perimeter player night in and night out.

So you're saying that, like every title team in the history of the league, the Bulls had great role players outside of their stars?

Woah! I had no idea!! Thanks.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by KenJi714

What people forget or purposely didn't mention is the Bulls had a bunch of veterans and great shooters. They might not have a legit all star center but they did have great role players and pure shooters around Pip and MJ

And MJ have two great HOFer perimeter defender/rebounder name Pippen and Rodman . MJ didn't have to do much on the perimeter as far as guarding the other team best perimeter player night in and night out.

So you're saying that, like every title team in the history of the league, the Bulls had great role players outside of their stars?

Woah! I had no idea!! Thanks.

It's obvious KenJi is pointing out that Kobe get's discredited for having Shaq yet people never end a sentence with MJ with "but he had Pippen, Rodman, shooters, veterans, Phil, etc."
Woah!

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Lastly, just to play devil's advocate - MJ never won without Pippen. 

as if losing to Bird Mchale & Parrish is a knock on your career when all you had was Orlando Woolridge & Quintin Dailey.

What about Kobe only losing when he had Odom, Walton, Smush, Kwame, and Mihm?
Thanks for making my point.

i really really don't want to get involved in this..

kobe had better teammates on the '04 team and the '08 team (the 2 years they lost in the finals with kobe.. the lakers were favored both times btw)

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by ill steelo

as if losing to Bird Mchale & Parrish is a knock on your career when all you had was Orlando Woolridge & Quintin Dailey.

What about Kobe only losing when he had Odom, Walton, Smush, Kwame, and Mihm?
Thanks for making my point.

What point? Did EYE ever say that "Kobe never won without shaq"?

It's clear people who say such things should be put in the "troll" category & ignored.

My point, although not state explicitly (maybe I overestimated your IQ), was that Kobe has won with several casts (Shaq/Fox/Horry > Pau/Odom)
You guys remember how MJ would go ham early in his career? Do you really think if you threw Shaq on that squad that MJ would defer? Imagine how competitive/alpha Mike was...I mean come on 

...In that regard, MJ is lucky he had a sidekick that deferred over and over and not an over the top personality like Shaq who would go to the press and make snide remarks about not getting the ball enough. 

Or what about Pippen waiting until the season starts to have major surgery so it would be on company time? 

While we're speculating, what about MJ in a social media era? His gambling, infidelity issues, and his father's mysterious death 

...I can't even imagine how that would affect MJ's game / legacy.

 

[pmatic]

The Lakers weren't favored in 2008. Or at least they should not have been. The Celtics were the best team from beginning to end that season (minus the rough patches in the first two rounds of the playoffs).

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by KenJi714

What people forget or purposely didn't mention is the Bulls had a bunch of veterans and great shooters. They might not have a legit all star center but they did have great role players and pure shooters around Pip and MJ

And MJ have two great HOFer perimeter defender/rebounder name Pippen and Rodman . MJ didn't have to do much on the perimeter as far as guarding the other team best perimeter player night in and night out.

So you're saying that, like every title team in the history of the league, the Bulls had great role players outside of their stars?

Woah! I had no idea!! Thanks.

It's obvious KenJi is pointing out that Kobe get's discredited for having Shaq yet people never end a sentence with MJ with "but he had Pippen, Rodman, shooters, veterans, Phil, etc."
Woah!

That's probably because Kobe was always referred to as "Little Brother"

Hell, even in the '02 finals vs. NJ he was referred to in publications as the "sidekick"

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

My point, although not state explicitly (maybe I overestimated your IQ), was that Kobe has won with several casts (Shaq/Fox/Horry > Pau/Odom)

And my point, although not state explicitly (maybe I overestimated your IQ), was that it's foolish to knock an individual for losing a superior team (which you did in your post) since, after all, this is a team sport.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by ill steelo

as if losing to Bird Mchale & Parrish is a knock on your career when all you had was Orlando Woolridge & Quintin Dailey.

What about Kobe only losing when he had Odom, Walton, Smush, Kwame, and Mihm?
Thanks for making my point.

i really really don't want to get involved in this..

kobe had better teammates on the '04 team and the '08 team (the 2 years they lost in the finals with kobe.. the lakers were favored both times btw)

And the Bulls were favored against Orlando in 94 semis. What's your point?
Kobe didn't have Bynum or Ariza in 08 and the #2 option was picked up mid-season (Gasol). To make matters worse, the Finals MVP basically ran a layup line against Luke Walton all series.

In 04, Malone shouldn't have even been playing cause of his injury and Slava + Devean got extensive playing time. Name a championship squad that had rotation players as bad as those two? 

You notice how the Lakers role players end up falling off the face of the earth? But players like Glen Davis, Tayshaun, Posey, and Tony Allen end up producing for the duration of the careers? 

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by ill steelo

So you're saying that, like every title team in the history of the league, the Bulls had great role players outside of their stars?

Woah! I had no idea!! Thanks.

It's obvious KenJi is pointing out that Kobe get's discredited for having Shaq yet people never end a sentence with MJ with "but he had Pippen, Rodman, shooters, veterans, Phil, etc."
Woah!

That's probably because Kobe was always referred to as "Little Brother"

Hell, even in the '02 finals vs. NJ he was referred to in publications as the "sidekick"

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

My point, although not state explicitly (maybe I overestimated your IQ), was that Kobe has won with several casts (Shaq/Fox/Horry > Pau/Odom)

And my point, although not state explicitly (maybe I overestimated your IQ), was that it's foolish to knock players for losing to superior teams since, after all, this is a team sport.

So which of Kobe's losses should go agaisnt him. The 08 Celtics squad was clearly better than the Lakeshow the year, especially taking Bynum + Ariza's injuries into account. And 04, as previously mentioned, came and went with Payton's ineptness (the Glove had all kinds of holes against Billups) + Malone playing on his injured knee...to make matters worse, both were about 42 years old 

 

[ill steelo]

I can't think of any instances of the Lakers losing to an inferior squad since Kobe took over for Eddie Jones

Some might say last season but he obviously didn't have "it" due to his knee

He's had one of the best careers in the history of the game

 

[jewseejay]

I thought these A vs B threads were insta-lock status... even when cleverly disguised

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by PMatic

The Lakers weren't favored in 2008. Or at least they should not have been. The Celtics were the best team from beginning to end that season (minus the rough patches in the first two rounds of the playoffs).

just going by what vegas said.. and dont forget how many game 7s boston had to go through that year

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

And the Bulls were favored against Orlando in 94 semis. What's your point?

you made a comment about the years kobe lost with 'bad' teammates.. and if you're going to do that then you have to also bring up the years he lost with better teammates

and '94 was the year he came back like halfway through the season, right?




if you want a year to see jordan's greatness, look at '98.. and go check out pippen's injuries from that season

 

[JAYxSF415]

 

[sthebest]

if im not mistaken, Kobe DID play Jordan in his prime, since he entered the league in 1996. He fared pretty well against him.

 

[kenji714]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by KenJi714

What people forget or purposely didn't mention is the Bulls had a bunch of veterans and great shooters. They might not have a legit all star center but they did have great role players and pure shooters around Pip and MJ

And MJ have two great HOFer perimeter defender/rebounder name Pippen and Rodman . MJ didn't have to do much on the perimeter as far as guarding the other team best perimeter player night in and night out.

So you're saying that, like every title team in the history of the league, the Bulls had great role players outside of their stars?

Woah! I had no idea!! Thanks.

No what im saying is for what MJ didn't have at the 5 position. He had other positions to fill it up for him. And those players were no joke players. They were Hofers and great shooter/role players.

 

[chrisb9393]

Originally Posted by sthebest

if im not mistaken, Kobe DID play Jordan in his prime, since he entered the league in 1996. He fared pretty well against him.

The bulls had legendary seasons 96-98 but do you really consider that jordans prime?

 

[beware the underdog]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr




You notice how the Lakers role players end up falling off the face of the earth? But players like Glen Davis, Tayshaun, Posey, and Tony Allen end up producing for the duration of the careers? 

I think it had something to do with the leader aspect. Because the best players make the role players better. KG Ray and Paul made the whole team better.

Kobe has never made any young player better. What his excuse? Hell if Im not mistaken dude doesn't even hang out with his teammates.

 

[freeze]

which version of kobe are we talking about??


frobe?

Rape charge Kobe?

Acquittal Kobe?

'05-'08 primetime??

Bad index finger kobe?

bad knee kobe?

the mask??


what we talmbout?

 

[bence23]

he can hardly shoot in THIS era

 

[deuce king]

if im not mistaken, Kobe DID play Jordan in his prime, since he entered the league in 1996.
You are mistaken champ.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

Originally Posted by aztec06jr




You notice how the Lakers role players end up falling off the face of the earth? But players like Glen Davis, Tayshaun, Posey, and Tony Allen end up producing for the duration of the careers? 

I think it had something to do with the leader aspect. Because the best players make the role players better. KG Ray and Paul made the whole team better.

Kobe has never made any young player better. What his excuse? Hell if Im not mistaken dude doesn't even hang out with his teammates.

Yeah Kobe should've taken Luke & Smush to the movies so they would've had sustainable, productive NBA careers.

 

[jewseejay]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

I think it had something to do with the leader aspect. Because the best players make the role players better. KG Ray and Paul made the whole team better.

Kobe has never made any young player better. What his excuse? Hell if Im not mistaken dude doesn't even hang out with his teammates.

 idiot.

 

[laker4lifeman]

Originally Posted by JewSeeJay

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog


I think it had something to do with the leader aspect. Because the best players make the role players better. KG Ray and Paul made the whole team better.

Kobe has never made any young player better. What his excuse? Hell if Im not mistaken dude doesn't even hang out with his teammates.

 idiot.

you're being too generous.