DELETE

[futuremd]

Are you saying that Mary had in-vitro fertilization? Did she use a turkey baster or a funnel? Or did god really just say *boom* you're pregnant? 

I think that the person who created man was responsible for her producing offspring. My reference to IVF was only to show that it is not beyond the realm of possibility for a young girl/virgin to become pregnant, albeit miraculously. 

*That is my answer, and I'm sure that you disagree with it, and I respect that, because you disagree with the proposal that God created man. And that is fine. But, my response is as stated. You can take that answer and do what you will with it. I am already familiar with your position and will not need for it to be restated in response.

Parthenogenesis (virgin birth) can NOT happen in humans. 

Sharks? Yes.

Humans? No. 

Try again. 

This is what i'm talking about. This is a PRIME example of the claims made in the bible NOT being true. 

IVF wasn't perfected until the 20th Century AND the guy who did it just won a Nobel Prize so I'm PRETTY sure it wasn't worth **** as a proceedure 2000+ years ago. 

LETS. BE. SERIOUS. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis (yeah, its a wiki link. Read the sources and go watch some vids OR take some bio classes. I don't know what else to tell you in in a more concise form)

 

[futuremd]

Ok... I've missed it the last few times... but this HAS TO BE SARCASM, right?
I'm still under the impression (read: hope) that this is sarcasm but I'll post this anyway, lest someone gets confused.
New International Version ([emoji]169[/emoji]1984)
By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

New Living Translation ([emoji]169[/emoji]2007)
It was by faith that Abraham offered Isaac as a sacrifice when God was testing him. Abraham, who had received God's promises, was ready to sacrifice his only son, Isaac,
English Standard Version ([emoji]169[/emoji]2001)
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,
New American Standard Bible ([emoji]169[/emoji]1995)
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
International Standard Version ([emoji]169[/emoji]200
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered Isaac-he who had received the promises was about to offer his unique son in sacrifice,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English ([emoji]169[/emoji]2010)
By faith, Abraham offered Isaac during his testing, and laid his only son on the altar, whom he had received by The Promise.
GOD'S WORD[emoji]174[/emoji] Translation ([emoji]169[/emoji]1995)
When God tested Abraham, faith led him to offer his son Isaac. Abraham, the one who received the promises from God, was willing to offer his only son as a sacrifice.
King James 2000 Bible ([emoji]169[/emoji]2003)
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son.

I suggest you reread the verse from James. Because all you are doing is trying to satisfy your own skepticism.

[color= rgb(0, 146, 242)]13[/color]
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; [color= rgb(0, 146, 242)]14[/color]
but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. [color= rgb(0, 146, 242)]15[/color]
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

You are a thinking man, I;m sure you can figure out the implications of that statement. I would say also dare to say that the intentions of a test and a temptation to induce evil are two entirely different things.

Do rational thinking a favor, and approach this discussion with fairness and rationality.

So if god can't be tempted by "evil," the evil it allowed to be created AND if god is only responsible for the "good" then god isn't capable or doing anything. 

God, as you've described he/she/it, has limitations.

You understand this, right? 

 

[trasoul82]

I suggest you reread the verse from James. Because all you are doing is trying to satisfy your own skepticism.

13


When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone
; 
14


but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 
15


Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.


You are a thinking man, I;m sure you can figure out the implications of that statement. I would say also dare to say that the intentions of a test and a temptation to induce evil are two entirely different things.


Do rational thinking a favor, and approach this discussion with fairness and rationality.

No I'm using logic, and you're using an emotional interpretation of fairytales to satisfy the fact that you are too scared to admit that no one truly knows why we are here. But I get the temptation thing. Since THE BIBLE SAYS that it's not temptation, then, to you, it's not temptation. I love the logic or lack thereof. Screw common sense and the english language and the interpretation of basic principles, just follow the word.

But I don't really need to "win" here, I'll just let you post your thoughts for documentations purposes.

So when you get a chance, please explain the "temptation of christ" even though god can't be tempted. Please educate me. Thank you.

Then explain how god "just put a tree there" when there was a talking serpent that spoke to eve?

Also recognize that you have being who supposedly CAN'T BE TEMPTED telling us how to deal with temptation. What is their reference point?

I just hope you understand that I've been where you have been. There is still hope for your mind to be freed. In due time. Just keep reading the bible, study it deeply, and the rest should take care of itself. But stop trying to redefine the principle of temptation simply because the bible says to. The bile is telling you not to use your mind.

 

[sumrndmdude]

..

 

[sumrndmdude]

Parthenogenesis (virgin birth) can NOT happen in humans. 

Sharks? Yes.

Humans? No. 

Try again. 

This is what i'm talking about. This is a PRIME example of the claims made in the bible NOT being true. 

IVF wasn't perfected until the 20th Century AND the guy who did it just won a Nobel Prize so I'm PRETTY sure it wasn't worth **** as a proceedure 2000+ years ago. 

LETS. BE. SERIOUS. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis (yeah, its a wiki link. Read the sources and go watch some vids OR take some bio classes. I don't know what else to tell you in in a more concise form)

you obviously didn't read my first sentence. But lets try to manage this discussion.

 

[futuremd]

Parthenogenesis (virgin birth) can NOT happen in humans. 

Sharks? Yes.

Humans? No. 

Try again. 

This is what i'm talking about. This is a PRIME example of the claims made in the bible NOT being true. 

IVF wasn't perfected until the 20th Century AND the guy who did it just won a Nobel Prize so I'm PRETTY sure it wasn't worth **** as a proceedure 2000+ years ago. 

LETS. BE. SERIOUS. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis (yeah, its a wiki link. Read the sources and go watch some vids OR take some bio classes. I don't know what else to tell you in in a more concise form)

you obviously didn't read my first sentence. But lets try to manage this discussion.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Parthenogenesis can't happen in humans dude. Your only answer can't be "well god made man so anything is possible"

Dude that just does NOT sit well.

So Jonah lived in the whale too bro? Exodus really happened? God disappeared and "spoke to god" and came up with some rules?! 

Come.

On.

Fam.

For example:

If you're a black guy then you're not unfamiliar with stories of white women lying about being raped when it was consensual, right? 

Whats to say that Mary got smashed out and didn't want to get in trouble? Joseph was already waiting until she got older and someone already test drove it. 

How do you REALLY know that Mary wasn't lying about getting pregnant? 

Like they surrounded her and interrogated her:

"MARY...who gave you this belly?!"

and her mind is running trying to avoid being stoned to death and she says BRILLIANTLY..."god...came down...and...put it here?" 

And then everyone gets really happy because shes carrying the new Messiah. 

HOW DO YOU KNOW???

Have you seen Life of Brian? 

Wait. Let me guess. Its in the book, so its true, right? 

 

[sumrndmdude]

So if god can't be tempted by "evil," the evil it allowed to be created AND if god is only responsible for the "good" then god isn't capable or doing anything. 

God, as you've described he/she/it, has limitations.

You understand this, right? 

Explain. 

Please make reference to the bible if possible.

And consider my earlier and later post as well.

 

[sumrndmdude]

No I'm using logic, and you're using an emotional interpretation of fairytales to satisfy the fact that you are too scared to admit that no one truly knows why we are here. But I get the temptation thing. Since THE BIBLE SAYS that it's not temptation, then, to you, it's not temptation. I love the logic or lack thereof. Screw common sense and the english language and the interpretation of basic principles, just follow the word.
But I don't really need to "win" here, I'll just let you post your thoughts for documentations purposes.
So when you get a chance, please explain the "temptation of christ" even though god can't be tempted. Please educate me. Thank you.
Then explain how god "just put a tree there" when there was a talking serpent that spoke to eve?
Also recognize that you have being who supposedly CAN'T BE TEMPTED telling us how to deal with temptation. What is their reference point?
I just hope you understand that I've been where you have been. There is still hope for your mind to be freed. In due time. Just keep reading the bible, study it deeply, and the rest should take care of itself. But stop trying to redefine the principle of temptation simply because the bible says to. The bile is telling you not to use your mind.

This is a new discussion. 

Do you want to discuss this or just to throw out stuff. I am acknowledging your statements, but I fear that you are not acknowledging mine?

 

[futuremd]

So if god can't be tempted by "evil," the evil it allowed to be created AND if god is only responsible for the "good" then god isn't capable or doing anything. 

God, as you've described he/she/it, has limitations.

You understand this, right? 

Explain. 

Please make reference to the bible if possible.

And consider my earlier and later post as well.

Son, you said god can't be tempted by evil.

God created everything, right?

So god created evil.

OR

God can't control evil things/actions/events

so god has limitations on god's power.

Whats the problem here?

If god can do anything, why doesn't it? 

You can't just keep using free-will if god already knows whats going to happen anyways. 

God either knows what you're going to do and you don't have free will OR you have free will and god doesn't know what youre thinking or going to do. 

 

[sumrndmdude]

Son, you said god can't be tempted by evil.

God created everything, right?

So god created evil.

OR

God can't control evil things/actions/events

so god has limitations on god's power.

Whats the problem here?

If god can do anything, why doesn't it? 

You can't just keep using free-will if god already knows whats going to happen anyways. 

God either knows what you're going to do and you don't have free will OR you have free will and god doesn't know what youre thinking or going to do. 

I think you are mistaking my response with someone elses. Like I said earlier, this keeps happening.

I have not addressed these particular concerns with you yet, i.e. God creating evil.or not creating evil...being all powerful.

I'll let you catch up to my previous responses and then we can move on from there. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[sumrndmdude]

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Parthenogenesis can't happen in humans dude. Your only answer can't be "well god made man so anything is possible"

Dude that just does NOT sit well.

So Jonah lived in the whale too bro? Exodus really happened? God disappeared and "spoke to god" and came up with some rules?! 

Come.

On.

Fam.

For example:

If you're a black guy then you're not unfamiliar with stories of white women lying about being raped when it was consensual, right? 

Whats to say that Mary got smashed out and didn't want to get in trouble? Joseph was already waiting until she got older and someone already test drove it. 

How do you REALLY know that Mary wasn't lying about getting pregnant? 

Like they surrounded her and interrogated her:

"MARY...who gave you this belly?!"

and her mind is running trying to avoid being stoned to death and she says BRILLIANTLY..."god...came down...and...put it here?" 

And then everyone gets really happy because shes carrying the new Messiah. 

HOW DO YOU KNOW???

Have you seen Life of Brian? 

Wait. Let me guess. Its in the book, so its true, right? 

Like I said, that is my position. Do with it what you will...my response made no commitment to parthenogenesis or ivf. I cited IVF in resp...i told you why I cited it, so I won't rehash.

But thanks for the cliffs on all 'that' anyhow.

A rape or knocked up theory is an entirely different discussion. But, I guess that's how things work on here...

 

[futuremd]

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Parthenogenesis can't happen in humans dude. Your only answer can't be "well god made man so anything is possible"

Dude that just does NOT sit well.

So Jonah lived in the whale too bro? Exodus really happened? God disappeared and "spoke to god" and came up with some rules?! 

Come.

On.

Fam.

For example:

If you're a black guy then you're not unfamiliar with stories of white women lying about being raped when it was consensual, right? 

Whats to say that Mary got smashed out and didn't want to get in trouble? Joseph was already waiting until she got older and someone already test drove it. 

How do you REALLY know that Mary wasn't lying about getting pregnant? 

Like they surrounded her and interrogated her:

"MARY...who gave you this belly?!"

and her mind is running trying to avoid being stoned to death and she says BRILLIANTLY..."god...came down...and...put it here?" 

And then everyone gets really happy because shes carrying the new Messiah. 

HOW DO YOU KNOW???

Have you seen Life of Brian? 

Wait. Let me guess. Its in the book, so its true, right? 

Like I said, that is my position. Do with it what you will...my response made no commitment to parthenogenesis or ivf. I cited IVF in resp...i told you why I cited it, so I won't rehash.

But thanks for the cliffs on all 'that' anyhow.

A rape or knocked up theory is an entirely different discussion. But, I guess that's how things work on here...

So you HONESTLY think god just magically put a baby in her?

Just a snap of the fingers and *boom* pregnant.

Is that what you're telling me?

I'm just trying to understand this. 

 

[sumrndmdude]

So you HONESTLY think god just magically put a baby in her?

Just a snap of the fingers and *boom* pregnant.

Is that what you're telling me?

I'm just trying to understand this. 

So you HONESTLY think god just magically put a baby in her?

Just a snap of the fingers and *boom* pregnant.

Is that what you're telling me?

I'm just trying to understand this. 

look to earlier post

 

[futuremd]

So you HONESTLY think god just magically put a baby in her?

Just a snap of the fingers and *boom* pregnant.

Is that what you're telling me?

I'm just trying to understand this. 

look to earlier post

Answer the question.

I don't know what post you want me to read. 

Are you saying that god just randomly and magically put a baby in her? 

 

[iamdavidrice]

This thread

 

[sumrndmdude]

Answer the question.

I don't know what post you want me to read. 

Are you saying that god just randomly and magically put a baby in her? 

I'm not going to clutter the thread:

1. I responded to this already

2. Every time I write a cogent response you jump to something else, (this especially happens when we are discussing bible verses in particular)without addressing it

3. At this point I think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, you can at least clarify this for me

4. I feel that you are not reading my responses, and I am at a loss at to figure out what direction you want this discussion to go.

5. I feel that you are not open to any sort of agreement, which would render a discussion fruitless for both you and me (see 2,3)

 

[kix4kix]

Religion doesn't help people, it's all a facade. Like you said, that energy could be used towards something else. But no, religion wastes people's time and energy, and it also divides humanity.

We need to explore the solar system.
We need to find a new source of energy not called oil (although I believe that it exists, but the higher powers won't let it come to light, just like the AIDS/cancer cure).

These things should be humans' two priorities.

But no, you got these people spending time praying to these imaginary gods, waiting for blessings.


I can understand religion prevailing when humans were cave-men. That was a long time ago.


We live in the technological era. All these stupid religions should be debunked by now. The problem is that, as technology advances, the average human mind takes ten steps back. As scientists get smarter and discover more things, humans get more and more spoiled, and their brains regress.

Who are YOU to say religion doesn't help people. I am beginning to wonder if some of you guys are actually athiests, y'all sound like y'all think you are omniscient ya damn self.

 

[trasoul82]

This is a new discussion. 

Do you want to discuss this or just to throw out stuff. I am acknowledging your statements, but I fear that you are not acknowledging mine?

You've acknowledged that you are willing to let the bible define it's own interpretation of what:

A day is
Temptation is
Free-Will is

What specific statement would you like me to acknowledge? All you are doing is defending the bible with the bible. But who are YOU? What have YOU seen? All I ask is that you show the ability to think for yourself. I'm telling you that I've been through the bible plenty. I went to Baptist church, then A.M.E. Zion, then "non-denominational" christianity (which is basically a denomination in itself), All while attending catholic and baptist grade schools and Even attended a christian college for as long as I could take it. I'm not claiming to know everything, but I have been exposed and taught. I've been "saved" no less than 3 times in my life. But there came a point where I finally had to break free. With that being said, I will still answer you're questions/respond to your statements.

 

[futuremd]

Religion doesn't help people, it's all a facade. Like you said, that energy could be used towards something else. But no, religion wastes people's time and energy, and it also divides humanity.

We need to explore the solar system.
We need to find a new source of energy not called oil (although I believe that it exists, but the higher powers won't let it come to light, just like the AIDS/cancer cure).

These things should be humans' two priorities.

But no, you got these people spending time praying to these imaginary gods, waiting for blessings.


I can understand religion prevailing when humans were cave-men. That was a long time ago.


We live in the technological era. All these stupid religions should be debunked by now. The problem is that, as technology advances, the average human mind takes ten steps back. As scientists get smarter and discover more things, humans get more and more spoiled, and their brains regress.

Who are YOU to say religion doesn't help people. I am beginning to wonder if some of you guys are actually athiests, y'all sound like y'all think you are omniscient ya damn self.

name one thing that religion does uniquely.

 

[futuremd]

Answer the question.

I don't know what post you want me to read. 

Are you saying that god just randomly and magically put a baby in her? 

I'm not going to clutter the thread:

1. I responded to this already

2. Every time I write a cogent response you jump to something else, (this especially happens when we are discussing bible verses in particular)without addressing it

3. At this point I think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, you can at least clarify this for me

4. I feel that you are not reading my responses, and I am at a loss at to figure out what direction you want this discussion to go.

5. I feel that you are not open to any sort of agreement, which would render a discussion fruitless for both you and me (see 2,3)

1. I don't understand your answer. Make it concise.

2. I don't jump to something else. You're not giving direct answers. 

3. Cute. 

4. I'm reading your response and it doesn't make sense. Parthenogenesis can't happen in humans. 

5. Save it. You're not above answering a very simple question.

Are you saying that god randomly and magically put a baby in Mary?

 

[futuremd]

Are you seriously quoting the lords prayer?

This does not answer how you know when god does something and when YOU do something.

All you're saying is that you hope god steers you from "temptation" but my question is HOW DO YOU KNOW when god is ACTUALLY doing the steering? 

You're not answering the question:

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN GOD DOES SOMETHING AS OPPOSED TO YOUR OWN EFFORTS IN LIFE?

WHATS THE STANDARD YOU USE TO MAKE THE DISTINCTION?

I assume you know the Lords prayer then, good for you!

You need to stop doing this. You ask questions for the sake of asking the question and don't take time to listen to any responses. Like I said earlier, 'I think/know that you are smarter this'. But, I will indulge you yet again and this time lets try to discuss this, please.

Does the bible indicate that God is responsible for every movement of our lives:

No! i thought this was apparent from the thought in James. The scriptures give examples of things that you can be thankful for (as illustrated in the lords prayer i.e. spiritual concerns, sustenance, relationships with god and man).

In addition there are other items, personal and unique to an individual, that a person may recognize as being indicative of God's blessing. These items need not necessarily be: Money, a mercedes, iPhone, iPad, vacation to Europe. 

The scriptures indicate that every individual is capable of utilizing their own personal strength to obtain 'things', whether or not the obtaining of such things is beneficial or not. That is to say, God does not need to take credit for your 'hard work'...furthermore, 'God doesn't care if you win the superbowl'. But , God does care that you at the least, get your 'daily bread.'...especially if your are serve him.

And too further satisfy your inquiry, giving you your daily bread may not mean something miraculous, such as a food truck loosing a shipment at your front door.  It may be as anectodal and simple as, 'you' a follower of Jesus, displaying a personality that may perhaps allow you to get a Job you otherwise would not have gotten. There are other example and scenarios....as a bible reader you've probably come across them. I can direct you to some if you need the info. 

Why thank god for anything if god isn't responsible for my successes?

Does fate rule our lives/has God predestined our lives:

I think this the other angle your question has taken.

In short, NO! We have free will.  We can choose to work hard for a Mercedes and an iPhone, we can choose to provide for our families, we can choose to live a life of a socialite. Again, God does not take credit for you being a socialite. The fact that there are consequences to certain actions does not implicate God in some conspiracy to rob us of this free will. As an example, independent of the existence of God there are consequences to jumping off a cliff...you are however free to jump off said cliff with or without a parachute, the decision is however still yours. (James 1:13)

But if God knows everything then that is contradictory?

-God can choose to be oblivious, just as a strong man can regulate the use of his strength.

-God, even with advanced knowledge, can allow a person to make their own decisions (free will). However, he can, and does give information about said decisions...again these decisions need not involve purchasing the next iPhone or not.

So if we have "free will" to do what we want, then how do you know when god is responsible for something and not your own efforts?

 

[sumrndmdude]

You've acknowledged that you are willing to let the bible define it's own interpretation of what:
A day is
Temptation is
Free-Will is
What specific statement would you like me to acknowledge? All you are doing is defending the bible with the bible. But who are YOU? What have YOU seen? All I ask is that you show the ability to think for yourself. I'm telling you that I've been through the bible plenty. I went to Baptist church, then A.M.E. Zion, then "non-denominational" christianity (which is basically a denomination in itself), All while attending catholic and baptist grade schools and Even attended a christian college for as long as I could take it. I'm not claiming to know everything, but I have been exposed and taught. I've been "saved" no less than 3 times in my life. But there came a point where I finally had to break free. With that being said, I will still answer you're questions/respond to your statements.

1. Thank you for noticing that. I think this speaks volumes to my pov. I think the fact that it interprets itself clears up misconceptions about it, and clears up apparent contradictions. Once we define the bible as being, at  the least, solid in and of itself; other discussions can be had.

2. I have seen that the bible is practical even for modern day applications. Misinterpretations of the bible make is seem inapplicable for a lot of people, e.g. a vengeful God, a duplicitous God, a God who is both man and God...etc. I think its principles are longlasting (laws change but principles don't). It can help people navigate life even in multicultural settings.

3. Religion can be a force for good and a force for bad. Just as politics can be a force for good and a force for bad, but this is a weak analogy because religion should be held to a higher standard...but I hope you get my meaning. Your final point is a discussion in and of itself. The Bible, I go back to it again, allows for freedom of religion but ultimately points out that there is a singular/approved/definable way of worshiping the god of the bible:

John 4:

[sup]19 [/sup]“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. [sup]20 [/sup]Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

[sup]21 [/sup]“Woman,”  Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. [sup]22 [/sup]You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. [sup]23 [/sup]Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.  [sup]24 [/sup]God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

...

I hope that makes some sense. Thank you for your thoughtful response.

 

[kix4kix]

name one thing that religion does uniquely.

What does that have to do with what I said? Lol dodging me like LA. Again I'll ask, are you agreeing with ol boy that religion helps nobody? Because If you are all knowing like duke above I have about 30 questions to ask, starting with the Wallace case.

 

[futuremd]

You've acknowledged that you are willing to let the bible define it's own interpretation of what:
A day is
Temptation is
Free-Will is
What specific statement would you like me to acknowledge? All you are doing is defending the bible with the bible. But who are YOU? What have YOU seen? All I ask is that you show the ability to think for yourself. I'm telling you that I've been through the bible plenty. I went to Baptist church, then A.M.E. Zion, then "non-denominational" christianity (which is basically a denomination in itself), All while attending catholic and baptist grade schools and Even attended a christian college for as long as I could take it. I'm not claiming to know everything, but I have been exposed and taught. I've been "saved" no less than 3 times in my life. But there came a point where I finally had to break free. With that being said, I will still answer you're questions/respond to your statements.

1. Thank you for noticing that. I think this speaks volumes to my pov. I think the fact that it interprets itself clears up misconceptions about it, and clears up apparent contradictions. Once we define the bible as being, at  the least, solid in and of itself; other discussions can be had.

2. I have seen that the bible is practical even for modern day applications. Misinterpretations of the bible make is seem inapplicable for a lot of people, e.g. a vengeful God, a duplicitous God, a God who is both man and God...etc. I think its principles are longlasting (laws change but principles don't). It can help people navigate life even in multicultural settings.

3. Religion can be a force for good and a force for bad. Just as politics can be a force for good and a force for bad, but this is a weak analogy because religion should be held to a higher standard...but I hope you get my meaning. Your final point is a discussion in and of itself. The Bible, I go back to it again, allows for freedom of religion but ultimately points out that there is a singular/approved/definable way of worshiping the god of the bible:

John 4:

[sup]19 [/sup]“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. [sup]20 [/sup]Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

[sup]21 [/sup]“Woman,”  Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. [sup]22 [/sup]You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. [sup]23 [/sup]Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.  [sup]24 [/sup]God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

...

I hope that makes some sense. Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Its not.

It isn't. I just showed you that parthenogenesis can't happen in humans and "divine IVF" is pretty much out of the picture.

Its not. If it was, then it would not stand up to any scrutiny or criticism under its own weight.

It doesnt and this entire sentence fragment is a contradiction

 

[futuremd]

name one thing that religion does uniquely.

What does that have to do with what I said? Lol dodging me like LA. Again I'll ask, are you agreeing with ol boy that religion helps nobody? Because If you are all knowing like duke above I have about 30 questions to ask, starting with the Wallace case.

I AM agreeing that religion does not innately help anyone. 

Name one thing religion does that is completely unique.