EDIT: New Question, is LeBron the second greatest player of all time? So, has Steph Curry overtaken

[DCAllAfrican]

Kawhi, KD, Russ all have a case for being the best. But there's only one #1 spot and to be truthful, Bron may be behind all those guys for this season.

Westbrook isn't even hands down the best on his own TEAM, but you are telling me he is in contention?

Come on people.

 

[Lovetohate3000]

lebrons last 2 and a half  games

16 points 5 rebs 5 assist 3 turnovers 

17 points 5 assist 1 reb  4 turnovers 

at the half tonight 

9 points 0 rebs 5 assist...

yeah that just screams best player in the L . 

 

cut it out already. 

 

[Deleted member 37467]

Actually laughing @ this being the first year KL has done something.


If the Spurs win the West dude has a legit shot @ the MVP award this year.


To go along w/ the DPOY's and Finals MVP he already has.

This is KL first year doing something to THIS level Hyper.  First time all star, so maybe what I am saying isn't as far fetched as you are trying to make it appear to be

Yes, if they win it, he would be the MVP.

This is the FIRST YEAR that you can make that statement with 100% confidence.

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

This is First year where KL can make a claim that he's the best in the league.

It isn't an absurd claim I guess, but there are players that are certainly better than him, and others who are arguably better. 

Dudes are just looking for anything, I thought it was a clear statement from the jump

Yea, first year you can say he's in consideration for being the best player in the NBA.

Not the first year he's done "something".

2 different things.

Just because you're not in the discussion for the best player on the planet doesn't mean you're not doing something of significance.

Then you also went onto say he's not even clear cut top 3 @ SF...?

C'mon man.

I understand SF is loaded but he's playing at an elite level on both sides of the floor.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 
This is Kawhi's first season REALLY doing something, but he has a case for being the best player in the world?

Again, yall treat this as an ever changing / fluctuating ranking system and it doesn't work that way.

Kawhi isn't even clear cut Top 3 at his position but now all of a sudden he has a case for best in the world?

This was my initial comment. 

LeBron

KD

Kawhi vs. PG: You can make an argument in either direction here.

KL isn't the best at his position, so as I said about RW, if you aren't the best at your position/team; how can you honestly make a claim as being the best in the world? Nah

I don't think Kawhi is in contention for being the best player in the NBA. This can't be your FIRST year on an elite level and you being in consideration for the best. No. Again, this isn't power rankings.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Just because you're not in the discussion for the best player on the planet doesn't mean you're not doing something of significance.

Then you also went onto say he's not even clear cut top 3 @ SF...?

C'mon man.

I understand SF is loaded but he's playing at an elite level on both sides of the floor.

1. Stop moving the goal posts. Nobody said he isn't doing anything of significance. I simply said this is his first year playing at THIS level, which isn't arguable.

2. Yes, he is NOT CLEAR CUT Top 3 at his position. Him and PG are fighting for that #3 spot. As I said, you can make a case for either one vs the other. Anyone that says one is CLEARLY better than the other has pre-existing biases.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

I know what your initial comment was, I just don't agree w/ it, at all.

Kawhi is shooting like 50/48/87 from the floor, giving you 20 a game while being an elite defender and you wanna put him up against Paul George?

Na, man, he's CLEARLY better than PG this season, sorry.

He's playing as good as anyone in the NBA right now, Curry included.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So you are going to use NUMBERS to support your argument when PG and KL play two completely different roles for their teams? Not sure why you would do that but the old saying is you can use stats to support anything you want if you manipulate them correctly.

As I said, PG vs KL is a legit argument man. If you think otherwise, bias exists in your blood for sure

 

[sea manup]

I would take kawaii over KD 

srs

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 
I would take kawaii over KD 

srs

And you wonder why The Texas Legends never returned your call for video boy

 

[Deleted member 37467]

As I said, PG vs KL is a legit argument man.

No, it's really not.

However, KL/LBJ/KD certainly is, all 3 are playing much better than PG right now.

The whole bias thing is funny, too, I could give a flying turd about the Spurs,

 

[Lovetohate3000]

 
I would take kawaii over KD 

srs

i dont know bout that and( im a bigger  kawaii fan then kd ) kawaii seems more dependable and way better defender but  kd is special offensively.... ill take both them over paul george easily tho.  paul george aint that great to me. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

No, it's really not.

However, KL/LBJ/KD certainly is, all 3 are playing much better than PG right now.

The whole bias thing is funny, too, I could give a flying turd about the Spurs,

Ok..........

Either way, this thread is about who the best in the world is.

Neither KL or PG should have their names typed at all.

So we can drop this discussion.

 

[sea manup]

kawaii can get buckets and lock down

KD is better at scoring but he's not even in the same league as kawaii defensively 

 

[Deleted member 37467]

Well, this is a step in the right direction, DC.

At least now you're half right.

 

[shoeking2102]

The KL > PG isn't clear cut at all and yes, it's within the numbers +eye test.

They have totally different roles for their respective teams so it's extremely hard to say one is > than the other.

Over 60% of KL's offense comes off assist. That number is far lower for PG. 

Part of why KL is so good this year is his 3 point shooting. Well, 91% of all his 3's come off of an assist. Again, that number is far lower for PG.

Opponents are shooting 4% lower when guarded by PG, and 6% lower when guarded by KL.

Where is this KL is clearly better than PG coming from? KL is great, but he plays in an infrastructre that promotes his strengths. He isn't creating much of anything. He accounts for like 15% of SAS's total assist while PG is accounting for over 27% of Indiana's.

 

[sea manup]

PG plays weaker opponents in the east though 

 

[shoeking2102]

Basically its a stretch to say that KL is better than PG. KL is defending and shooting at elite levels, but that's really it, in comparison to PG and the team he plays for, like it or has a lot to do with that.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

Shooting and defending at elite levels, that's really it?

C'mon man, you're better than this, I actually tend to agree w/ you a lot,

How many players in the history of the sport have done those 2 things?

 

[shoeking2102]

 
PG plays weaker opponents in the east though 

I mean I guess,

but the numbers are what they are. People slurp up KL's shooting this year and rightfully so. But it's a lot easier to shoot when you're catching and shooting instead of creating for others. KL is like an all world 90's style wing. 

Put this into perspective. Only 9% of KL's offense happens when has the ball for 6 seconds or longer. That number is at 20% for PG. KL's usage rate this year is like at 24% last I checked, for PG it's at like 32%.

Just a geeky, nerdy NBA way of saying KL is catching and either shooting or finishing plays and PG has the ball a lot more and is tasked with creating for others as well as himself.

 

[shoeking2102]

Shooting and defending at elite levels, that's really it?

C'mon man, you're better than this, I actually tend to agree w/ you a lot,

How many players in the history of the sport have done those 2 things?

There's obviously more to the story, as you would be hard pressed to find someone who is defending the way KL is and shooting almost 50% from 3 at 20PPG. You probably can't.

BUT

That doesn't make him clearly better than PG. He's finishing a lot of plays for almost strictly himself. He isn't creating anything still for the most part. There's a reason why KL's assist % is at like a 13, 14 and PG's is over 27%.

I don't mean to bring so many numbers into this, but they are there to drive home a point. Paul George is tasked with a lot more.

 

[mister friendly]

You're kinda saying give George credit for holding the ball and taking bad shots sometimes.

Holding the ball more doesn't mean better.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

I understand that PG is tasked w/ more offensively, he's a point forward, KL isn't.

A better comparison for me would be 2013 PG Vs 2015 KL, because this season it's not even close for me.

I give PG a ton of credit tho because considering he snapped his leg in 2 not too long ago, he's playing pretty well.

 

[shoeking2102]

You're kinda saying give George credit for holding the ball and taking bad shots sometimes.

Holding the ball more doesn't mean better.

Not really, I mean yes he does take some bad shors and hold the ball sometimes, but thats par for the course for someone who's offensive structure revolves around.

Watch indiana play. Their offense revolves around PG. and it behooves them for it to do so.

Obviously, watching the spurs play its the total opposite.

Its why for me the comparison is such a difficult one to make.

Is KL making 50% of his 3's and defending at an all world level if he's tasked with manufacturing 35% of his team's total offense? I dont know, I doubt it.

 

[dland24]

@shoeking2102  thank you for posting the stats.  I just refuse to even acknowledge someone the best player in the league whose offense is so heavily reliant upon his teammates setting him up. 

 

[mister friendly]

You're kinda saying give George credit for holding the ball and taking bad shots sometimes.

Holding the ball more doesn't mean better.

Not really, I mean yes he does take some bad shors and hold the ball sometimes, but thats par for the course for someone who's offensive structure revolves around.

Watch indiana play. Their offense revolves around PG. and it behooves them for it to do so.

Obviously, watching the spurs play its the total opposite.

Its why for me the comparison is such a difficult one to make.

Is KL making 50% of his 3's and defending at an all world level if he's tasked with manufacturing 35% of his team's total offense? I dont know, I doubt it.

I understand your point but in the same breath you can't say George could fit into Leonard role and have same level of efficiency and bring the elite defense.

Some guys need a certain level of usage to reach a certain level of productivity.