Explain why there's suffering in the world.

[ryda421]

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by Ryda421

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by Ryda421

same reason why people cannot unite

elaborate. Some would say that people aren't able to unite because of ignorance or stubbornness. Are you essentially telling me that God is such?

no bro. I say this because ppl are selfish. anytime you tell them about something they will not do it, if there is no benefit for them. but they do not see that sometimes it benefits both people. I don't know. sometimes it just seems like I would rather see someone happy then myself. i only say this because it is easy for me to happy, but it is much harder to make someone else happy.

I hear you man.

only if the world could hear...

 

[cherryred]

because matter thrives off of the destruction of matter.

suffering will always exist because of this.

 

[18key]

My 2 cents dealing with faith: God let people have free will.

My $0.02 dealing with logic and history:
Technology and weapons advanced for certain groups faster than it did for others. Then came war and slavery. Because of slavery and racism, one group had tokeep the other suppressed. The balance of the world, or at least the equality, never recovered. Now there's capitalism and privatization, which keepsgroups of people suppressed through modern-slavery (diamond mining in Africa, sweatshops in Asia, privatized water supplies, ect). There's a lot morereasons that delve a lot deeper as to why people are suffering, but I'm not gonna get on my Method Man steeze

 

[jfmartimcdandruff]

Not enough people care. We focus on ourselves too much. We can fix problems like starving and poverty by giving a helping hand, and it doesn't alwaysinvolve money.

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by iBlink

Explain why:

FREE WILL justifies necessary evils

I have to read the logic behind this one. Please explain.

ya, forgive me it's been a while since phil100,

But here goes.

The premise is that God is
a. All knowing: (he is aware of everything in the world)
b. All good (He is a righteous person, good prevails above all)
c. All powerful (he has the power to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants)

Even though god is all good, he chose for us to have free will, believing that the ability to choose one's path is greater than the evils that may resultfrom them. This is why Adam and Eve messed up in that garden. There would be no "good" without "evil", leaving no reason to believe in godin the first place.

 

[njstress03]

Originally Posted by Ryda421

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by Ryda421

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by Ryda421

same reason why people cannot unite

elaborate. Some would say that people aren't able to unite because of ignorance or stubbornness. Are you essentially telling me that God is such?

no bro. I say this because ppl are selfish. anytime you tell them about something they will not do it, if there is no benefit for them. but they do not see that sometimes it benefits both people. I don't know. sometimes it just seems like I would rather see someone happy then myself. i only say this because it is easy for me to happy, but it is much harder to make someone else happy.

I hear you man.

only if the world could hear...

i feel the same way, its like the world is so damn ignorant and cant see it is responsible for its own destruction. they are worried about thingsthat have no real value in life and ignore the most important things for the same reasons mentioned above. if there is a god he must be in heaven crying whenhe sees how we treat each other.

 

[cherryred]

a better question is why doesn't god live in matter with us?

 

[vegatts]

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by veGAtts


You should be asking yourself WHY do you think there has to be?

PS - I dont think you can claim "everything that we know can be traced back to a catalyst" because that is simply not true.

Because there has to be a explanation, besides this balance/location, for men to live like kings and others to barely cling to life.

Everything has a catalyst. I never said that we as human beings (a falable creature) can properly identify each one, but there is.

when i flip a coin and it lands heads instead of tails, that is the same catalyst that determined that the poor guy over there is born intopoverty and disease.

when i flip a coin and it lands tails instead of heads, that is the same catalyst that determined that the lucky guy over here is born into wealth and luxury.

That catalyst is called chaos, randomness, entropy, whatever.
Doesnt matter what it is called, what does matter is that it is not "picking" who is "worthy" and who is "unworthy" it simplypicks without any bias or logic behind it, When a human is born it has to be born into SOME condition, what condition that is is determined by all of thefactors that led up to that birth with heavy influence from location and the direct ancestors. It is not at all fair. It is not for the good of anything. Itjust is.

This is the conclusion you are already working towards, I can see by the other replies, your just not here yet.

These people telling you "balance" or some suffer so others dont or there has to be suffering for there to be pleasure are simply incorrect, which iswhy you keep asking them to elaborate. There is no requirement that things need to be balanced, they are clearly NOT balanced because humans do not naturallyseek a balance in this world as evidenced by our general destruction of nature. Other people suffering is not a requirement for people to be happy. Maybe youappreciate your happiness more after you experience some suffering but there is no reason one person HAS to suffer in order for some other person to NOTsuffer. Its not like there is a quantifiable amount of suffering that has to be going on all the time so whenever somebody gets happy there has to be sufferingland on some other poor sap.

Randomness. It happens. There is no justification for it, since that is what you are really asking. There are reasons, but no justification.

 

[iblink]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

I mean...there are concrete (albeit complex) answers as to the root causes behind the problems depicted...if you're really interested, just research the topics instead of posting pics for shock value.

We know these things go on every day so there shouldn't be any shock to seeing them. I'm reading up on Anselem and Descartes on thematter, so you telling me to do the research in null and void. Instead of the usual criticism, how's about you give more of an explanation.

Originally Posted by kix4kix


Humans are exponential, food and many other resources are not.

There's more substance on the planet than most people are willing to believe. As far as other resources, say medicine or shelter for example, there'smore than enough man power to build homes and create medical treatment. The only thing one could argue in this case is human greed and the fact that we'drather have others suffer than to give aid for free.

 

[hueyp in louiev]

There is nothing random about poverty and war bro....

 

[iblink]

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

ya, forgive me it's been a while since phil100,

But here goes.

The premise is that God is
a. All knowing: (he is aware of everything in the world)
b. All good (He is a righteous person, good prevails above all)
c. All powerful (he has the power to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants)

Even though god is all good, he chose for us to have free will, believing that the ability to choose one's path is greater than the evils that may result from them. This is why Adam and Eve messed up in that garden. There would be no "good" without "evil", leaving no reason to believe in god in the first place.

No problem. philosophy was

/

all the time.

But here's my question for premise b and c: if this were true, why does he allow his creation to suffer? A girl asked this question to my professor and itcompletely took the lecture off course because we couldn't come up with an answer.

 

[cherryred]

 

[hueyp in louiev]

You're reading 16th century European philosophy books to get a tangible answer as to why there are bums in the inner city and famine in the "thirdworld" ?

All you're going to end up with are more questions.

If you're going to post a picture of a starving Ethiopian baby...it only takes a few minutes to do a search into the Ethiopian famine and its causes. Youcan start there.

 

[iblink]

And I can understand the argument in which God allows it so that we can always be mindful of him presence, but this tactic has proven to turn some men againsthim. If he were all knowing, wouldn't he have seen the outcome of such action, or lack thereof?

 

[vegatts]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

You're reading 16th century European philosophy books to get a tangible answer as to why there are bums in the inner city and famine in the "third world" ?

All you're going to end up with are more questions.

If you're going to post a picture of a starving Ethiopian baby...it only takes a few minutes to do a search into the Ethiopian famine and its causes. You can start there.

he isnt really looking for the reason, he is looking for some sort of omnipotent justification. The reasons and causes are simply history and facts. He wantsto know some sort of deeper meaning. Which is what I was referring to as random earlier.

 

[iblink]

Ethiopian famine can be traced back to the underdevelopment of the country due to the greed of those in power, as well as a lack of resources. That's notthe answer I'm looking for.

And research is research. Albeit, the course I'm on now only leads to me asking more questions, eventually I'll come across more thought provoking andcurrent material. You've gotta start somewhere fam.

 

[cherryred]

why do they need those resources?

 

[rexanglorum]

When you look at the day to day lives of the ordinary person in most places and in most times, the most appropriate question should be why is it that withinthe last century or two and amongst a portion of humanity, suffering as the norm has waned.

Ignorance, poverty (poverty that would be considered dire by the UN and NGO's today) and brutality carrying the day are the norm, that is our defaultcondition. Modern Western History is a huge aberration that was the result of a lot of luck, genius and many coincidences of geography and political and legalhistory. Absent those things, the best the ordinary person could hope for was endless toil that resulted in sustenance, a small modicum of cleanliness andentertainment and relative physical security, that was the optimum, the pre-modern dream.

Famine, sickness, pain, terror, tyranny, slavery, crime, provincialism, superstition and death were life and it does not have much of an explanation beyond thefact that outside of a wealthy and advanced society, we are beings with a very sophisticated nervous system and the ability to make guesses about a the futurebut we are unable, on our own, to do much to insure that we have a great deal of food, medicine, cleanliness and physical security needed to alleviate most ofthe the pain and worry for which we are well adapted to understand and endure.

 

[de phx jose]

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by veGAtts

i dont believe in any religion, so this concept doesnt bother me as much. Why do humans always need a cause or a reason behind things that just are?

Because some things do deserve to be explained. There's no reason why you and I can go to sleep well fed and safe, while a fellow human in another country goes hungry. It's simply not fair. So explain.

Well maybe you should try to do something about it instead of posting on NT

Originally Posted by iBlink

She just looks old to me. You picked some dumb pictures, no offence.
And there will always be suffering, not everyone wants the same thing..

Originally Posted by Ryda421

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by Ryda421

same reason why people cannot unite

elaborate. Some would say that people aren't able to unite because of ignorance or stubbornness. Are you essentially telling me that God is such?

no bro. I say this because ppl are selfish. anytime you tell them about something they will not do it, if there is no benefit for them. but they do not see that sometimes it benefits both people. I don't know. sometimes it just seems like I would rather see someone happy then myself. i only say this because it is easy for me to happy, but it is much harder to make someone else happy.

Originally Posted by NJstress03

i believe there is suffering in the wolrd because of the ignorance and selfishness of man. we care too much about ourselves to worry about some1 elses well being. its leaves us in a "every man for themself" senario which also brings into play a lack of trust. since this also exists we decide to strike 1st before struck upon.

If you want to give up on humanity,life, and belief of a god, or higher power, go ahead. but the meaningness of our existence and the surroundingsare too complex for us.

 

[SUSHI AND GRITS]

Intelligence and Arrogance.

 

[gtek]

Simple answer. Everything in this world is based of off profit. Point blank.
Profit is the reason why no man will stop to help another at his own cost.
And for the people bashing religion. We caused this on ourselves. We were not put here with an government or an currency system.
We created that. We created the selfishness and divsion in our world.
People love to say if god created us we did he give us cancer or aids.
We caused that on ourselves. From people screwing animals, medicines, radioactive waves from technology, down to experimenting with life and genetics. Youexpect this stuff to come without a cost?

 

[vegatts]

Originally Posted by de PHX Jose

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by veGAtts

i dont believe in any religion, so this concept doesnt bother me as much. Why do humans always need a cause or a reason behind things that just are?

Because some things do deserve to be explained. There's no reason why you and I can go to sleep well fed and safe, while a fellow human in another country goes hungry. It's simply not fair. So explain.

Well maybe you should try to do something about it instead of posting on NT

Im not sure i follow why you bolded and underlined what you did and the have the response you gave.
I was saying that some things just are the way they are and there isnt a real "reason" (in the sense of what was being asked originally) for thosethings to happen.
I was asking why do people in general always seek out answers to these questions like why things are the way they are instead of just accepting reality forwhat it is. Its also funny that a POST ON NT is telling me that I should go out and change the world instead of wasting time making POSTS ON NT, especiallywhen I feel I have consistently shown the least amount of concern over the unfortunate nature of reality, I accept it.

Religion exists because when people cannot explain something their overwhelming desire to explain it anyway makes them create these fairy tales about magiccreatures that cause all the stuff we dont understand the origin of. As science as developed and we have figured out more and more one thing that has alwaysbeen true is that the cause behind anything that we have discovered has not once been magical in nature. Not once.

 

[rko2004]

The man in the mirror Blink. Man I could give you the biblical reason why but I'd rather keep this argument free. But the man in the mirror. We all havethe power to at least help those in need. The money that is spent yearly to kill people could save so many. I'm not sure how we end up where we do, butI'm just thankful I'm where I am.

 

[de phx jose]

Originally Posted by veGAtts

Originally Posted by de PHX Jose

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by veGAtts

i dont believe in any religion, so this concept doesnt bother me as much. Why do humans always need a cause or a reason behind things that just are?

Because some things do deserve to be explained. There's no reason why you and I can go to sleep well fed and safe, while a fellow human in another country goes hungry. It's simply not fair. So explain.

Well maybe you should try to do something about it instead of posting on NT

Im not sure i follow why you bolded and underlined what you did and the have the response you gave.
I was saying that some things just are the way they are and there isnt a real "reason" (in the sense of what was being asked originally) for those things to happen.
I was asking why do people in general always seek out answers to these questions like why things are the way they are instead of just accepting reality for what it is. Its also funny that a POST ON NT is telling me that I should go out and change the world instead of wasting time making POSTS ON NT, especially when I feel I have consistently shown the least amount of concern over the unfortunate nature of reality, I accept it.

Religion exists because when people cannot explain something their overwhelming desire to explain it anyway makes them create these fairy tales about magic creatures that cause all the stuff we dont understand the origin of. As science as developed and we have figured out more and more one thing that has always been true is that the cause behind anything that we have discovered has not once been magical in nature. Not once.

naaa, my dude. i highlighted yours for truth, my bad for not making it clear. your post was

Italicized is what i meant to reply to

 

[ryda421]

de PHX Jose wrote:

Originally Posted by Ryda421

Originally Posted by iBlink

Originally Posted by Ryda421

same reason why people cannot unite

elaborate. Some would say that people aren't able to unite because of ignorance or stubbornness. Are you essentially telling me that God is such?

no bro. I say this because ppl are selfish. anytime you tell them about something they will not do it, if there is no benefit for them. but they do not see that sometimes it benefits both people. I don't know. sometimes it just seems like I would rather see someone happy then myself. i only say this because it is easy for me to happy, but it is much harder to make someone else happy.

Originally Posted by NJstress03

i believe there is suffering in the wolrd because of the ignorance and selfishness of man. we care too much about ourselves to worry about some1 elses well being. its leaves us in a "every man for themself" senario which also brings into play a lack of trust. since this also exists we decide to strike 1st before struck upon.

If you want to give up on humanity,life, and belief of a god, or higher power, go ahead. but the meaningness of our existence and the surroundings are too complex for us.



???
WTH does that mean

EDIT:

if you mean that I have given up, the answer is I have not.