GOAT Talk

[jpzx]

Methodical Management Who’s the GOAT of Mods

 

[king j]

 

[ALNotSure]

10-15 I know you don’t like that man but come on

I mean i’m not the one with his name as my handle on an internet forum so I don’t expect us to agree. That’s weird stuff.

A great basketball player for sure. Just too many negatives to be considered a goat.

 

[king j]

I’m not named after LeBron

There isn’t 10-15 players better than LeBron all time that’s hate and you truly don’t know ball

And who are these 10-15 players

 

[ALNotSure]

I’m not named after LeBron

There isn’t 10-15 players better than LeBron all time that’s hate and you truly don’t know ball

And who are these 10-15 players

I’m glad you have that opinion. It’s an opinion.

 

[wayniac211]

Ali.

 

[ALNotSure]

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 

[ALNotSure]

489K views · 16K reactions | Lebron James will never be Michael Jordan | Basketball Nobles

Lebron James will never be Michael Jordan.

www.facebook.com

 

[ALNotSure]

One year ago… Not GOAT stuff again

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 

[rexanglorum]

Cliff notes- MJ is the GOAT

If we had to condense it to a thumb nail description, yes.

His peak (1990-1993/1995-199 was the best and his nonpeak years were short and still featured: a ROY; a 61 point point playoff game against the eventual champs (Larry Bird was humbled by him, in victory no less); a 35 point per game season; a League MVP; a bevy of triple doubles when Doug Collins put him at point guard in the 1988-1989 Season AND he was DPOY that same season. For the real heads, even his Wizards years added to his resume. As Methodical Management said a few years ago, and I'm paraphrasing loosely here; strip MJ of all of his exception athleticism, make him below average as a pure athlete due to his age, and he still gets you 20 points per night on sheer skill alone. Obviously staying retired after 1998 would have been more theatrical, but his non peak years with the Wizards ultimately bolster his GOAT case.

To paraphrase Jerry West, no other player was the very best at both ends of the court, among all ten players on the court, more often than Michael Jeffery Jordan.


However, it is also true that many Jordan stans are technically correct but for the wrong reasons. Many of them are bitter gen Xers or young incels who use LeBron as an avatar for their dislike of the entire 21st century and its changing social mores. Whenever I meet a guy who is says Kareem is the GOAT, it's usually a cool old head. And although there are some annoying Lebron stans who think that everyone who played before they became a basketball fan sucks (because they played against plumbers), grown up LeBron stans usually present a more detailed case than Jordan stans.

It's probably just my professor brain at work but I often times do appreciate good methodology and argumentation, even if their ultimate answer is wrong. MJ is the GOAT but many reached that conclusion for the wrong reasons.


Honestly, the biggest lesson here is that great players shouldn't load manage, they should just take a season or two off every now and again after they turn 30 and when they play, go all 82 and dominate in the playoffs.

 

[rexanglorum]

Again, MJ is the goat but his GM helped him out bigtime throughout the 80's and 90's. MJ didn't have to take his talents elsewhere, the talent came to him.

Getting Pippen and Grant on the same night in 1986 was crazy. Finding snipers, to spread the court, and a decent center like Cartwright who could fit into the triangle offense were huge for the first threepeat, not tot mention our boy, the king of goggles, Horace Grant (I still give my old college roommate for calling him "Horatius Grant," to which, I say, that'd have beena cooler name. Something like a Civil War General. Then while MJ was away with Baseball and/or had recently rearrived, the GM got get Tony Kukoc to be the sixth man, a crippled but still very useful Ron Harper, Steve Kerr to snipe, and they treaded a backup center for the best rebounder and stopper of great offensive big men, Dennis Rodman.

The Bulls of 1990-1993 and of 1995-1998 WERE a super team and MJ just had to sit on his butt and let the talent flow in.

Statistically speaking, Rodman's offensive rebounds facilitated the Bulls' second threepeat. Those extra three, four, five possessions above replacement allowed MJ (or his teammates) to make their the go-ahead shots in the playoffs. In the 1990's, the old heads were used to every team winning with a dominant center. Luc Longley was competent (especially his ability to learn the triangle, which demands that big men be facilitators) but not dominant. BUT, many old heads cite the lack of a dominant center as proof of MJ's GOAT status. But the game had already changed by the turn of the final decade of the 20th Century. It was rapidly becoming less about bigs but more about perimeter players in any case.

 

[kdawg]

Again, MJ is the goat but his GM helped him out bigtime throughout the 80's and 90's. MJ didn't have to take his talents elsewhere, the talent came to him.

Getting Pippen and Grant on the same night in 1986 was crazy. Finding snipers, to spread the court, and a decent center like Cartwright who could fit into the triangle offense were huge for the first threepeat, not tot mention our boy, the king of goggles, Horace Grant (I still give my old college roommate for calling him "Horatius Grant," to which, I say, that'd have beena cooler name. Something like a Civil War General. Then while MJ was away with Baseball and/or had recently rearrived, the GM got get Tony Kukoc to be the sixth man, a crippled but still very useful Ron Harper, Steve Kerr to snipe, and they treaded a backup center for the best rebounder and stopper of great offensive big men, Dennis Rodman.

The Bulls of 1990-1993 and of 1995-1998 WERE a super team and MJ just had to sit on his butt and let the talent flow in.

Statistically speaking, Rodman's offensive rebounds facilitated the Bulls' second threepeat. Those extra three, four, five possessions above replacement allowed MJ (or his teammates) to make their the go-ahead shots in the playoffs. In the 1990's, the old heads were used to every team winning with a dominant center. Luc Longley was competent (especially his ability to learn the triangle, which demands that big men be facilitators) but not dominant. BUT, many old heads cite the lack of a dominant center as proof of MJ's GOAT status. But the game had already changed by the turn of the final decade of the 20th Century. It was rapidly becoming less about bigs but more about perimeter players in any case.

Organisations win championships huh?

MJ hated that - but I get what you're saying. Those teams definitely contributed to him being great - without that it was the 1988 Bulls - so we'd have a guy who averaged 30+ and won nothing.

 

[703 hwy]

It has been weird how Shaq is trying to make it seem like him and Kobe were bff’s nowadays like we don’t know the history.

 

[ALNotSure]

Again, MJ is the goat but his GM helped him out bigtime throughout the 80's and 90's. MJ didn't have to take his talents elsewhere, the talent came to him.

Getting Pippen and Grant on the same night in 1986 was crazy. Finding snipers, to spread the court, and a decent center like Cartwright who could fit into the triangle offense were huge for the first threepeat, not tot mention our boy, the king of goggles, Horace Grant (I still give my old college roommate for calling him "Horatius Grant," to which, I say, that'd have beena cooler name. Something like a Civil War General. Then while MJ was away with Baseball and/or had recently rearrived, the GM got get Tony Kukoc to be the sixth man, a crippled but still very useful Ron Harper, Steve Kerr to snipe, and they treaded a backup center for the best rebounder and stopper of great offensive big men, Dennis Rodman.

The Bulls of 1990-1993 and of 1995-1998 WERE a super team and MJ just had to sit on his butt and let the talent flow in.

Statistically speaking, Rodman's offensive rebounds facilitated the Bulls' second threepeat. Those extra three, four, five possessions above replacement allowed MJ (or his teammates) to make their the go-ahead shots in the playoffs. In the 1990's, the old heads were used to every team winning with a dominant center. Luc Longley was competent (especially his ability to learn the triangle, which demands that big men be facilitators) but not dominant. BUT, many old heads cite the lack of a dominant center as proof of MJ's GOAT status. But the game had already changed by the turn of the final decade of the 20th Century. It was rapidly becoming less about bigs but more about perimeter players in any case.

Uhhh, Jerry Krause stated many times MJ not once asked him to make any changes or trades. Krause said MJ thought he was so good he could win with anyone.

LeTrade is the opposite and just recently stated he has tried to recruits guys to play with for almost two decades.

FYI, Horace Grant was an all star only once lol.

Michael Jordan's Best Teammates vs. LeBron James's Best Teammates: 6-0 vs. 4-6 - Fadeaway World

Michael Jordan currently has the edge over LeBron James with 6 rings, but is that because MJ had better teammates? Or does LeBron have the advantage of

fadeawayworld.net

 

[ALNotSure]

Organisations win championships huh?

MJ hated that - but I get what you're saying. Those teams definitely contributed to him being great - without that it was the 1988 Bulls - so we'd have a guy who averaged 30+ and won nothing.

Shouldn’t MJ get credit for those guys getting better? Pippen and Grant as rookies was nothing like MJ as a rookie. Krause to his credit drafted guys no one thought much of. It’s well documented Mj’s competitiveness influenced the entire team.
I highly doubt Pippen becomes an all time great and Grant becomes an All Star on a team without MJ.

Also Phil Jackson replaces Doug Collins. Phil was unknown at the time. Tex Winter brings the triangle offense to involve others. MJ still continues to
lead the league in scoring even as his average drops.

Later on adding Rodman was genius for sure but his first couple of seasons he missed a ton of games:

65
55
80

Also the Eastern Conference then was super lit.

Now Let’s not act like Lebron didn’t get to the Finals his first run with Cleveland, He did, he just lost. So clearly the organization put together a great team.

 

[king j]

Shouldn’t MJ get credit for those guys getting better? Pippen and Grant as rookies was nothing like MJ as a rookie. Krause to his credit drafted guys no one thought much of. It’s well documented Mj’s competitiveness influenced the entire team.
I highly doubt Pippen becomes an all time great and Grant becomes an All Star on a team without MJ.

Also Phil Jackson replaces Doug Collins. Phil was unknown at the time. Tex Winter brings the triangle offense to involve others. MJ still continues to
lead the league in scoring even as his average drops.

Later on adding Rodman was genius for sure but his first couple of seasons he missed a ton of games:

65
55
80

Also the Eastern Conference then was super lit.

Now Let’s not act like Lebron didn’t get to the Finals his first run with Cleveland, He did, he just lost. So clearly the organization put together a great team.

Your argument is terrible,dimming Pippen & Grants lights to elevate Jordan is NASTY work

No one on this earth would call the 07’ Cavs a GREAT ‘team’,the organization failed him ,which is why he went to Miami.

 

[ALNotSure]

Your argument is terrible,dimming Pippen & Grants lights to elevate Jordan is NASTY work

No one on this earth would call the 07’ Cavs a GREAT ‘team’,the organization failed him ,which is why he went to Miami.

You don’t really understand basketball. You are a simple Lebron Stan. Thus you missed the entire point.

No Lebron failed Lebron. They made the Finals before he went to Miami and lost. I can’t make a comparison to Jordan because he never lost in the finals.

 

[ALNotSure]

Michael Jordan would never

 

[king j]

Michael Jordan would never

Take this goofiness here

Thread 'LeBron Haters Call To Arms! (The Haters Unification Thread)'

May 29, 2011

Ok guys, we're running out of time here.

We need to put our collective energy towards a Heat series loss.

Pray to your old Michael Jordan & Larry Bird posters... turn your "hate" up a notch...  and bow before the basketball gods every night asking for a miracle.

We need to believe in the Mavs and will Dallas to victory.

Because quite frankly, if Lebron wins a ring here, we will probably never hear the end of it.

I actually think...

• oh you mad
• Replies: 9,333
• Forum: Sports & Training

• 
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[king j]

You don’t really understand basketball. You are a simple Lebron Stan. Thus you missed the entire point.

No Lebron failed Lebron. They made the Finals before he went to Miami and lost. I can’t make a comparison to Jordan because he never lost in the finals.

No you don’t understand ball at all,cause you a LeBron hater and you can’t even have a good faith argument at all.

You still ain’t named them 10-15 players better than Bron all-time,still waiting on that list

 

[ALNotSure]

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 

[ALNotSure]