I Wish People Would Stop Telling Me/Eachother Who Is/Isn't A Good Coach. None Of You Know!

[DCAllAfrican]

How in the world would any of us know how good of a coach someone is?

Do we simply base it off of team success?
Do we simply base it off of player performance?
Do we simply base it off of his reputation?

I hate when people talk about X, Y, Z not being a good coach. How in the world would any of us know? Just because someone loses X amount of games doesn't mean he is a bad coach.

His players could just not buy into his system. Doesn't mean he is a bad coach.

He could have an issue with the leader of the team and the rest of the team follows. Doesn't mean he is a bad coach.

His players just might not give maximum effort. Can't blame the coach. Yea coaches are supposed to motivate but if a player doesn't give max effort, how can you blame the coach?

None of us know. I wish we all would stop talking as if we do.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Mike Pringles and his "lack of" defensive coaching ability. Man you have to have TALENT to play on that end of the court. When has Mike had superior defensive talent on his teams other than Raja Bell? When has his teams supposed to have been at the top of the league in defensive efficiency or any other defensive stat. Never.

So if a coach doesn't have talent, you can't blame him for his team not succeeding in that category.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Have you ever played a sport? Serious question.

I've had good coaches and bad coaches. You can tell if someone is a good coach or a bad coach.

It's the coaches job to get the players to buy into the system.
It's the coaches job to get the players to give maximum effort.
The coach is the leader of the team not a player.
The reason a team has a coach is to win games.

 

[CP1708]

If a player, or group of players don't improve

added with

A Coach makes mistakes such as leaving a pitcher in too long, or not handling a rotation in basketball, icing a kicker for no damn reason

added with

Clashes with key players

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Other coaches making calls that work perfectly while said coach can not match those calls and looks foolish.



We can't have a fairly well formed opinion on that coach? Really? We're out of line for our way of thinking? Naw, I don't buy that. In today's day and age, we have more than enough sources of information to make a reasonable determination on whether a coach is capable of leading the team they are with. Some coaches can't handle the day to day grind of the local media they coach in, some it's the players they have, some don't put enough time in, there's a million things/reasons out there, and people can make up their own minds on who is doing the job and who isn't.

You shouldn't be sitting here telling us not to judge coaches just on some blanket it's not right, or we have no idea statement. ********. If you wish to dispute a particular coach or two, that's fine and dandy, but you can't blanket all of them and say they are all above our combined abilities to judge from afar, just because we are not in meetings/practice with them daily.

Not like we all read boxscores these days. With the information age, the amount of media, social media, amount of games on tv, behind the scenes, cameras in every huddle, soundbites, press conferences, daily quotes, come on.

 

[powerballin]

So basically nobody should talk about coaches or players? or people in general that they don't personally know.  And then even then our opinions are going to be criticized. 

 

[seymore cake]

George Karl is a mediocre coach at best.

HOF talent where ever he has stopped and his results are meager at best, not to mention he repeatedly crabs his play upon their departure.

 

[mez 0ne]

George Karl's Buck should've gone to the Finals, so many missed opportunities vs the Sixers. :x

Classic series, Ray in his prime....I'm still convinced that team was better built to compete vs the Lakers in the Finals that year, balanced team.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Have you ever played a sport? Serious question.
I've had good coaches and bad coaches. You can tell if someone is a good coach or a bad coach.
It's the coaches job to get the players to buy into the system.
It's the coaches job to get the players to give maximum effort.
The coach is the leader of the team not a player.
The reason a team has a coach is to win games.

Me playing a sport means nothing but to answer your question, yes I have.

To me, If players don't buy into a system says more about the players than the coach.

To me, If players don't give max effort, it says more about the players than the coach.

The coach is the leader of the team, but there are leaders on the court than hold more "weight" than a coach can ever hold. Please understand that.

The reason a team has a coach is because teams HAVE to have a coach.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So basically nobody should talk about coaches or players? or people in general that they don't personally know.  And then even then our opinions are going to be criticized. 

I am just saying we don't know HALF of what actually goes on. We usually just repeat whatever biased messages we get from the media/blog world. Our ideas about most coaches are fed to us. If it was first hand info, I would respect it more but most of it isn't even 2nd hand info.

So yes, we should shut the hell up when it comes to "evaluating" coaches that we have never taken a command from.

 

[CP1708]

George Karl is a mediocre coach at best.
.

I've ripped him so many times. You calling him mediocre is a compliment imo.

Pretty much every playoff series I have seen him coach in, he gives this quote "I feel like we're the better team." Loses.

Next year. I feel like we're the better team. Loses.

Next year, repeat , etc etc.


It drives me insane how he does that every year and no one ever calls him out for it.

 

[powerballin]

I think DC is just upset lil Tashuan has caused a mutiny on the rec team he coaches.  Now the kids are back to playing bad basketball instead the team system DC implemented at the start of the season. Its ok man you are still a good coach even tho ya'll are 2-9.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

This doesn't make sense unless you're saying we can't judge anyone which I could respect but would erase this forum.

 

[mgrand15]

Mike Pringles and his "lack of" defensive coaching ability. Man you have to have TALENT to play on that end of the court. When has Mike had superior defensive talent on his teams other than Raja Bell? When has his teams supposed to have been at the top of the league in defensive efficiency or any other defensive stat. Never.
So if a coach doesn't have talent, you can't blame him for his team not succeeding in that category.

The D'Antoni defensive hate is one of the worst criticisms about him. All useful stats say that D'Antoni is an elite offensive coach and an AVERAGE defensive coach. Not terrible or bad by any means. When you play at that pace, you're going to give up 100 ppg no matter what.

You can blame it on the players but it's absolutely a two way street. Players are cut/traded all the time when the team isn't playing well. They can be blamed and so can coaches. Coaches need to put their players in a position to play well. That includes creating a system to fit their talents and getting them to buy into that system. If you can't motivate your players, be an assistant coach.

You are partially right though. Some coaches look bad because of talent and some look good. Doc Rivers was hated before he led the big 3 and now he's looked at one of the best coaches in the league. Avery Johnson had the best winning percentage in NBA history before he signed with the Nets and has looked average at best since then. I do think there are a couple stubborn coaches who are BAD and there are a couple ELITE coaches who can significantly raise the level of their team. Besides that, it probably all depends on situation. Who knows.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

This doesn't make sense unless you're saying we can't judge anyone which I could respect but would erase this forum.

It makes perfect sense. Unless you have first hand experience with someone you really shouldn't speak on how well they do their job. Calling D'Antoni a bad defensive coach would be like me accepting Ray J's advice on Kim K givng weak head. Unless I experience it myself, my opinion on the subject is ignorant.

 

[powerballin]

DC D'antoni isn't a bad coach but the stats support his teams don't perform well on the defensive end.  As a result thats on him. He's a bad defensive coach.  Don't tell us that he preaches defense but the Suns/Knicks players decided to only focus on offense.  If thats the case the doesn't have the leadership ability to lead a team and would be...A BAD COACH.

 

[duba169]

Mike Pringles and his "lack of" defensive coaching ability. Man you have to have TALENT to play on that end of the court. When has Mike had superior defensive talent on his teams other than Raja Bell? When has his teams supposed to have been at the top of the league in defensive efficiency or any other defensive stat. Never.
So if a coach doesn't have talent, you can't blame him for his team not succeeding in that category.

plenty of PLAYERS have criticized dantoni's lack of attention to defense.

and you can tell even if you aren't part of a team. You need to "be there" to know Payton should have been guarding MJ earlier in the series? NOPE.

The coaches job is to get people to buy in his system. Making the players care is part of the job. Sorry, it just si to me. I don;t care if they feel like they need to babysit them or inspire them or whatever. Your job is to get the team to play beyond their capabilities.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

DC D'antoni isn't a bad coach but the stats support his teams don't perform well on the defensive end.  As a result thats on him. He's a bad defensive coach.  Don't tell us that he preaches defense but the Suns/Knicks players decided to only focus on offense.  If thats the case the doesn't have the leadership ability to lead a team and would be...A BAD COACH.

Again, show me the top notch defensive talent that has played on a D'Antoni coached team in PHO?

Of course his teams aren't going to be great defensively.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

plenty of PLAYERS have criticized dantoni's lack of attention to defense.
and you can tell even if you aren't part of a team. You need to "be there" to know Payton should have been guarding MJ earlier in the series? NOPE.

Of course you can pick out specific HINDSIGHT situations in which a coach could have done, X, Y, Z but that doesn't mean he can't coach. It just means IN HINDSIGHT, we should have done something differently. With any leader in any field, after a failure we all could have said, woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I am sure Karl had his own logic as to why he didn't drain GP on the defensive end guarding Jordan.
Or risking getting GP in foul trouble guarding Jordan.

I am sure he had his own personal reasons.

 

[mez 0ne]

Scoring numbers are inflated with the pace Pringles plays with (with the opposition as well), only thing I can criticize him with is his lack of player accountability.....seems like he lets everyone just have fun all the time

Suns were sabotaged during the Spurs series when they suspended Diaw and Stat and not Duncan, they more than likely would've won the Finals that season and nobody would be saying anything.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

plenty of PLAYERS have criticized dantoni's lack of attention to defense.
and you can tell even if you aren't part of a team. You need to "be there" to know Payton should have been guarding MJ earlier in the series? NOPE.
The coaches job is to get people to buy in his system. Making the players care is part of the job. Sorry, it just si to me. I don;t care if they feel like they need to babysit them or inspire them or whatever. Your job is to get the team to play beyond their capabilities.

Again, you coach to your personnel. Having sub-par defensive talent and supreme offensive talent might have been the reason why he didn't focus on defense as much.

Great Coaches usually are flexible based on the talent around them.

 

[duba169]

That isn't hindsight. His name is the freaking Glove

a good coach would know to put his best defensive player on MJ. It's common sense.

I'm sure he had his own logic. That doesn't mean we can't judge him. Alot of food critics aren't chefs, but they still know which chef's suck and which are great.

Most people have never been the president. Does that mean we can't recognize a bad one?

 

[powerballin]

Again, show me the top notch defensive talent that has played on a D'Antoni coached team in PHO?
Of course his teams aren't going to be great defensively.

Its not because of the players its the system, its the coach.  Have you ever seen a college coach go to a new team and not have his type of players yet? A coach who's system is based on shooting a high volume of 3's will look bad with bad shooters.  But after 4 years he should have good enough shooters to win.  In the NBA you pick your guys, you can trade, you have free agency.  He choose shooters and mobile offensive minded guys by choice.  Meaning he doesn't care about defense.  Yes the GM choose them but D'antoni has a say because the GM isn't going to pick players that don't fit the system.  

So looking at the personnel decisions over time and team's defensive stats we can say he's not a good defensive coach.  I never said he was a bad coach tho because he won games. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Its not because of the players its the system, its the coach.  Have you ever seen a college coach go to a new team and not have his type of players yet? A coach who's system is based on shooting a high volume of 3's will look bad with bad shooters.  But after 4 years he should have good enough shooters to win.  In the NBA you pick your guys, you can trade, you have free agency.  He choose shooters and mobile offensive minded guys by choice.  Meaning he doesn't care about defense.  Yes the GM choose them but D'antoni has a say because the GM isn't going to pick players that don't fit the system.  

So looking at the personnel decisions over time and team's defensive stats we can say he's not a good defensive coach.  I never said he was a bad coach tho because he won games. 

I disagree. I don't care how good a "system" is. If you don't have the talent to produce the "system" isn't going to be worth a damn.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Me playing a sport means nothing but to answer your question, yes I have.
To me, If players don't buy into a system says more about the players than the coach.
To me, If players don't give max effort, it says more about the players than the coach.
The coach is the leader of the team, but there are leaders on the court than hold more "weight" than a coach can ever hold. Please understand that.
The reason a team has a coach is because teams HAVE to have a coach.

I think it does. First hand experience on what is good coaching and what isn't.

When I played high school ball we had a coach who was terrible. A hole on top of it. Every practice there was arguing and shouting between him and the players. After losses there was yelling back and forth in the locker room. The team was completely detached from our coach. We did what we wanted and put in as much effort as we wanted. He got fired. The next coach, who we already knew and have been coached by before was a great coach. He knew how to build relationships with his players which is more important than anything. Something a good coach can do. He got the players respect cause he earned it. We played our ***** off and we were really good. He could go off on you practice but you know it's no hard feelings.

So players that once didn't buy into a coaches system, bought into this coaches system due to good coaching. Players that didn't give max effort gave max effort due to this good coaching. You're right there's a leader on the court but they don't more weight than the coach. When you're told to go to the bench you go to the bench. No matter how good a player is you do what you're told from the coach. A coach holds more weight than a player could as well. Please understand that.

I will say this though, what defines a good coach can vary from sport to sport and the level you're playing on. High school you're developing very young raw talent. In college how well you recruit plays a role. And on the professional level your dealing with grown men.

But no matter what level you're on. If you're not capable of building relationships with your players and you can't earn they're respect you won't be a good coach.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

That isn't hindsight. His name is the freaking Glove
a good coach would know to put his best defensive player on MJ. It's common sense.
I'm sure he had his own logic. That doesn't mean we can't judge him. Alot of food critics aren't chefs, but they still know which chef's suck and which are great.
Most people have never been the president. Does that mean we can't recognize a bad one?

Again, it is simple to say, "Put your best defender on their best offensive player." But if your best perimeter defender is also your #1 ballhandler and perimeter scorer, is it really "dumb" not to put him on the best offensive weapon of the modern era? I don't think so.

I could see if we were talking about Hersey Hawkins (IF he were the best defender) but not when your best defender is also your best player. I can understand the logic of not wanting to tire the dude out.