- Apr 19, 2013
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op is a fool...and this dude is a legend?
If car crashes are responsible for more deaths than shootings; why dont we tackle car control with t
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by dankenstien88,
- Start date
- Apr 15, 2007
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Typical NT....op throws out a comparison to rustle jimmies and get people to talk about a topic.....everyone says terrible comparison....and refuses acknowledge that there is a problem (regardless of the outlandish comparison) and won't try to be solutions oriented
Ok we get it the comaprison sucks....but a lot of people die from car accidents...that is a fact...how would you change that? I think dumbing the cars down as stated wouldn't be a bad idea and i actually feel smarter for reading that as an opinion because it wasn't something i thought of
Ok we get it the comaprison sucks....but a lot of people die from car accidents...that is a fact...how would you change that? I think dumbing the cars down as stated wouldn't be a bad idea and i actually feel smarter for reading that as an opinion because it wasn't something i thought of
- Apr 1, 2008
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Guns level the playing field allowing anyone to be able to defend themselves if needed, regardless of their size, sex or age.
Would you rather live in a society where the strong can just take what they want from the weak ?
Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict
Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]
Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]
As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]
Even anti-gun researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]
Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).[6] And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."[7]
Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year. [8] Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as "Saturday Night Specials."
Concealed carry laws help reduce crime
Nationwide: one-half million self-defense uses. Every year, as many as one-half million citizens defend themselves with a firearm away from home. [9] * Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:
States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%; [1
![0]](/styles/default/xenforo/NTemojis/alien.gif "Alien 0]")
and * If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.[11]Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission... without paying a fee... or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union -- having three times received the "Safest State Award."[12]
Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state. [13] FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. [14]
Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder.
1. During the first fifteen years that the Florida law was in effect, alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by carry holders by a 229 to 155 margin.
2. And even the 155 "crimes" committed by concealed carry permit holders are somewhat misleading as most of these infractions resulted from Floridians who accidentally carried their firearms into restricted areas, such as an airport. [15]
Criminals avoid armed citizens
Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole. [16]
Ten years later (1991), the residential burglary rate in Kennesaw was still 72% lower than it had been in 1981, before the law was passed. [17]
Nationwide. Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms. Consider the following rates showing how often a homeowner is present when a burglar strikes:
Homeowner occupancy rate in the gun control countries of Great Britain, Canada and Netherlands: 45% (average of the three countries); and, * Homeowner occupancy rate in the United States: 12.7%. [18] Rapes averted when women carry or use firearms for protection
Orlando, FL. the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando's rape rate dropped 88%, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation. [19]
Nationwide. the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful. [2
Justice Department study:3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun." [21]
74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."[22] * 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." [23]
citations contained in spoiler
[1] Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun," 86 The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law at 188.
[2] National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.
[3] Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime," at 173, 185.
[4]Id. at 185.
[5]Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig, "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," NIJ Research in Brief ; available at http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/165476.txt on the internet. The finding of 1.5 million yearly self-defense cases did not sit well with the anti-gun bias of the study's authors, who attempted to explain why there could not possibly be one and a half million cases of self-defense every year. Nevertheless, the 1.5 million figure is consistent with a mountain of independent surveys showing similar figures. The sponsors of these studies -- nearly a dozen -- are quite varied, and include anti-gun organizations, news media organizations, governments and commercial polling firms. See also Kleck and Gertz, supra note 1, pp. 182-183.
[6]Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, :111-116, 148.
[7]George F. Will, "Are We 'a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek (15 November 1993):93.
[8]Id. at 164, 185.
[9]Dr. Gary Kleck, interview with J. Neil Schulman, "Q and A: Guns, crime and self-defense," The Orange County Register . In the interview with Schulman, Dr. Kleck reports on findings from a national survey which he and Dr. Marc Gertz conducted in Spring, 1993 -- a survey which findings were reported in Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime."
[1One of the authors of the University of Chicago study reported on the study's findings in John R. Lott, Jr., "More Guns, Less Violent Crime," The Wall Street Journal (28 August 1996). See also John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns," University of Chicago (15 August 1996); and Lott, More Guns, Less Crime (1998, 2000).
[11]Lott and Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns."
[12]Kathleen O'Leary Morgan, Scott Morgan and Neal Quitno, "Rankings of States in Most Dangerous/Safest State Awards 1994 to 2003," Morgan Quitno Press (2004) at http:// www. statestats.com/dang9403.htm.
[13]Memo by Jim Smith, Secretary of State, Florida Department of State, Division of Licensing, Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report (October 1, 2002).
14Florida's murder rate was 11.4 per 100,000 in 1987, but only 5.5 in 2002. Compare Federal Bureau of Investigation, "Crime in the United States," Uniform Crime Reports: 7, 53; and FBI, (2003):19, 79.
[15]John R. Lott, Jr., "Right to carry would disprove horror stories," Kansas City Star, (July 12, 2003).
[16]Gary Kleck, "Crime Control Through the Private Use of Armed Force," Social Problems 35 :15.
[17]Compare Kleck, "Crime Control," at 15, and Chief Dwaine L. Wilson, City of Kennesaw Police Department, "Month to Month Statistics"
[18]Kleck, Point Blank, at 140.
[19]Kleck, "Crime Control," at 13.
[2U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities (1979), p. 31.
[21]U.S., Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report
[22]Id.
[23]Id.
[2] National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.
[3] Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime," at 173, 185.
[4]Id. at 185.
[5]Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig, "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," NIJ Research in Brief ; available at http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/165476.txt on the internet. The finding of 1.5 million yearly self-defense cases did not sit well with the anti-gun bias of the study's authors, who attempted to explain why there could not possibly be one and a half million cases of self-defense every year. Nevertheless, the 1.5 million figure is consistent with a mountain of independent surveys showing similar figures. The sponsors of these studies -- nearly a dozen -- are quite varied, and include anti-gun organizations, news media organizations, governments and commercial polling firms. See also Kleck and Gertz, supra note 1, pp. 182-183.
[6]Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, :111-116, 148.
[7]George F. Will, "Are We 'a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek (15 November 1993):93.
[8]Id. at 164, 185.
[9]Dr. Gary Kleck, interview with J. Neil Schulman, "Q and A: Guns, crime and self-defense," The Orange County Register . In the interview with Schulman, Dr. Kleck reports on findings from a national survey which he and Dr. Marc Gertz conducted in Spring, 1993 -- a survey which findings were reported in Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime."
[1
One of the authors of the University of Chicago study reported on the study's findings in John R. Lott, Jr., "More Guns, Less Violent Crime," The Wall Street Journal (28 August 1996). See also John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns," University of Chicago (15 August 1996); and Lott, More Guns, Less Crime (1998, 2000).[11]Lott and Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns."
[12]Kathleen O'Leary Morgan, Scott Morgan and Neal Quitno, "Rankings of States in Most Dangerous/Safest State Awards 1994 to 2003," Morgan Quitno Press (2004) at http:// www. statestats.com/dang9403.htm.
[13]Memo by Jim Smith, Secretary of State, Florida Department of State, Division of Licensing, Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report (October 1, 2002).
14Florida's murder rate was 11.4 per 100,000 in 1987, but only 5.5 in 2002. Compare Federal Bureau of Investigation, "Crime in the United States," Uniform Crime Reports: 7, 53; and FBI, (2003):19, 79.
[15]John R. Lott, Jr., "Right to carry would disprove horror stories," Kansas City Star, (July 12, 2003).
[16]Gary Kleck, "Crime Control Through the Private Use of Armed Force," Social Problems 35 :15.
[17]Compare Kleck, "Crime Control," at 15, and Chief Dwaine L. Wilson, City of Kennesaw Police Department, "Month to Month Statistics"
[18]Kleck, Point Blank, at 140.
[19]Kleck, "Crime Control," at 13.
[2
U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities (1979), p. 31.[21]U.S., Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report
[22]Id.
[23]Id.
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- Apr 1, 2008
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Interestingly enough the Japanese version of the Nissan GTR actually has a GPS sensor that limits the car to 112 MPH unless the systems map detects its on a racetrack.
- Apr 4, 2006
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This. I dont see the need to compare gun control and car control
- Dec 3, 2009
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If the strong wanted to take from the weak they still would and everyone being armed won't change that, last thing I want besides criminals walking the street, is trigger happy, paranoid individuals with an inferiority complex and a gun.
- Apr 7, 2008
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Why? I like this thread.
- Apr 1, 2008
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Guns are the most sophisticated form of self defense and the ultimate leveler of the playing field. It is the only tool on this earth that allows a 100lb person to be on an equal footing with a 250lb attacker, anywhere, anytime. With minimal training & practice, any person can successfully defend themselves against as many attackers as the magazine in his/her weapon will allow. Without guns we are allowing society to essentially go back to the strong taking whatever it is they wish from the weak.
Anyone in favor of justice & equality cannot logically argue fists are a more civilized means of defense than a pistol. Doing so would mean you are in favor of allowing society to degrade back to cavebro standards of justice.
- Jun 4, 2008
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God damn if this ain't the stupidest comparison...
Good luck with your rustling goals of this thread.
Good luck with your rustling goals of this thread.
- Jun 4, 2008
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I'm 165 lbs and I live in NY where I don't have a gun.
Please tell me why the big bad drug dealers on my block don't rob me everyday. They all know I don't have a gun. In fact they know most people don't have guns.
Why hasn't my neighborhood "degraded back to cavebro standards of justice"?
(I don't even know what the **** this means)
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- Apr 1, 2008
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Cavebro standards:
Its important to acknowledge the positive impact of guns on forming more balanced and equal societys. Prior to the accessibility of inexpensive personal firearms societies were primarily feudal monarchies. The masses were poor and highly suppressed compared to today's society, and that is because in order to defend yourself against your oppressor, you needed armor which would cost a small fortune by today's standards, as well proper training to learn how to use a weapon. When guns came around it became easier and cheaper for people to defend themselves and quality of life (in most places) increased drastically as a result. Guns were the great equalizer that allowed people to defend and provide for themselves as opposed to being literally owned by monarchies.
Also... "Big bad drug dealers" dont tend to rob people.... they sell drugs.
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- May 12, 2011
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Why are cars able to go over 85mph?
How many roads and highways do you know in america that have a speed limit over 85mph?
There should be a speed limit on all cars of 80mph and a max of 150hp. Anything over is made with the intention to break the law and is a safety risk to everyone.
These high power cars belong on race tracks, not in the hands of citizens.
How many roads and highways do you know in america that have a speed limit over 85mph?
There should be a speed limit on all cars of 80mph and a max of 150hp. Anything over is made with the intention to break the law and is a safety risk to everyone.
These high power cars belong on race tracks, not in the hands of citizens.
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if these high performance cars were banned this guy would still be alive
View media item 749308
Ban them. Ban them NOW
Nike Jordan
Supporter
- Jun 27, 2002
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OP is an idiot.
- Jul 29, 2012
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I don't agree with protecting people from themselves. Srs. Come at me. If people want to drive reckless and splatter their brains all over a curb let them. If people want to smoke cigarettes and get lung cancer, let them. If people want to eat 100 cheeseburgers and get fat, let them. People need to start having more common sense. We don't need courts and officials to rule that we shouldn't be doing things we know will hurt us or others. We just need to start using our brains ourselves rather than having someone create laws to tell us what's ok.
- Jul 21, 2011
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There is a difference between speeding and being an a hole.
If a person is going 100 and no one is within one mile, why is that a problem?
If your going 100 through traffic well then thats an issue.
Them bishes wouldn't dare chip my car.
- Apr 4, 2006
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It's not just protecting people form themselves. If someone drives reckless, they can harm other individuals. If you smoke indoors, other people can get secondhand smoke. The cheeseburgers is the only example of people hurting themselves
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- Apr 4, 2006
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It's a problem because you can still hurt yourself. What if you lose control of the car and it flips or you crash into a tree?
- Nov 14, 2012
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guns are used way less than cars are though, the death rate per every time a gun is used is way higher than the death rate per every time a car is used
and yeah there is no reason for any car to go above 85 mph but changing that law/getting all cars fixed would be as hard as getting rid of guns
and yeah there is no reason for any car to go above 85 mph but changing that law/getting all cars fixed would be as hard as getting rid of guns
- Jul 18, 2012
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Age has little bearing on how well one does or does not operate motor vehicle. Experience > age.
Ive said before on here the legal alcohol limit should be raised to .1 and the driving pre requisites get 20x harder/more thorough. Im confident thered be millions less drivers and consequently less crashes and a lowrt pctg of crashes per driver as well. Also u must remain compitant. Every 2 yrs... more jobs as well. If i gotta get my eyes checked every 24 months to get new frames the 90 yr old lady next door should be required to semi annually prove her driving compatency.
I think accidents. Commute times and road rage would all plummet. More buses and private transpo companys would open as well as state jobs testing ppl. Everybody wins
Ive said before on here the legal alcohol limit should be raised to .1 and the driving pre requisites get 20x harder/more thorough. Im confident thered be millions less drivers and consequently less crashes and a lowrt pctg of crashes per driver as well. Also u must remain compitant. Every 2 yrs... more jobs as well. If i gotta get my eyes checked every 24 months to get new frames the 90 yr old lady next door should be required to semi annually prove her driving compatency.
I think accidents. Commute times and road rage would all plummet. More buses and private transpo companys would open as well as state jobs testing ppl. Everybody wins
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- Jul 21, 2011
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Your only harming yourself. Your not hurting anyone else. Everyone knows how they are as a driver.
- Sep 6, 2012
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yes, yes, 18, sure, yes, no, yes
if i can be punished for potential id like to be paid for it as well. victimless crimes FTL. now intoxication manslaughter laws too lenient? yes
ayzee
Banned
- Sep 22, 2013
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Terrible argument is terrible. The analogy/logic
yeezusdisciple
Banned
- Nov 29, 2013
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You shouldnt be driving reckless unless its on the track b.
You never know whats around the corner.
This the idea i haad in mind. Electronically limiting speed based on gps.
Also some cars need more than 150 like people with trucks need to haul and tow so they need more power
