Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[osh kosh bosh]

You call mass murder illegal occupation? You’re one disingenuous SOB.

1. I didn't call it mass murder.
2. im sorry but words have specific meanings.

 

[Dark Brandon]

You didn’t call it anything because you refuse to.

Again, you’re a disingenuous SOB.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think a lot of people believe calling it a genocide will spur some positive change.

Like if you call it that enough times, Israel will go,
"oh jeeze my bad, lets pack up everyone and head back to where ever."


I think it's the exact opposite.
I think you validate the Zionist right talking points and makes the Israeli's more recalcitrant.

"see look at how they reach and apply double standards for jews, it's just anti-semtism, we are justified!"

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You didn’t call it anything because you refuse to.

Again, you’re a disingenuous SOB.

?

i literally did, I said;

illegal occupation?
indiscriminate bombing?
war crime (if applicable)?
inhumane?

 

[Dark Brandon]

You literally did not say what you think it is. You literally suggested.

You see those question marks you typed? They indicate uncertainty, which means you don’t know what it is. You should stop talking.

 

[me love nutella]

except the whole like "intent" part.

again WWII during the Blitz, was Germany "genociding" the British people?
indiscriminate bombing, tons of civilian casualties, in fact the purpose was to target civillains.

do we consider it a genocide? no. because you need intent.

You cannot compare the British and Germans, basically 2 equal sovereign powers that were going at it engaged in a war. The Germans did a genocide on Jews, the Romas, Poles, Catholics, etc., not the British.

Hamas is not even an official army or government, and they are the occupied entity. Israel is a sovereign superpower ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING another native peoples. There is also an immense asymmetry and imbalance of power between the two.

We already explained and gave you tons of examples of intent which are clear as day.

Also, in another post, you tried to show that it is not a genocide or ethnic cleansing because of population growth. Are we for real here? Do you not understand social democraphics, mixed with factors that make this happen?

Population growth does not negate a genocide or ethnic cleansing taking place. That is the biggest crock of pseudo science to say so.

 

[IATT]

 

[me love nutella]

More on the detention of Palestinian children by Israel:

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You cannot compare the British and Germans, basically 2 equal sovereign powers that were going at it engaged in a war. The Germans did a genocide on Jews, the Romas, Poles, Catholics, etc., not the British.

there is no "power imbalance requirement for genocide.

there is an intent requirement.

WWII bombing of Britain is not a genocide, because there intent was to scare the populace into electing politicians who would make peace with Britain.

not eradicated the British people. thus not a genocide.

Hamas is not even an official army or government, and they are the occupied entity. Israel is a sovereign superpower ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING another native peoples. There is also an immense asymmetry and imbalance of power between the two.

illegal occupation is not a genocide.
power imbalance is not a genocide.

American had a huge power imbalance in the Iraq war.
USA killed many civilian's...still not a genocide.

We already explained and gave you tons of examples of intent which are clear as day.

you haven't you just keep listing bad things that Israel does. but none of speaks to intent.

Also, in another post, you tried to show that it is not a genocide or ethnic cleansing because of population growth. Are we for real here? Do you not understand social democraphics, mixed with factors that make this happen?

Population growth does not negate a genocide or ethnic cleansing taking place. That is the biggest crock of pseudo science to say so.

it speaks to intent. According to you, Isreal has such immense power, such a HUGE asymetry.

you are telling me their intent is to irradicate the Palestinians, but for all there power they can't seem to do it in any way that causes literally any reduction in the population?

AND they do nothing about the ones within their country. or in bordering countries.

it's not pseudoscience, it's deductive reasoning.
and in the face of that I think it's a big reach to say yah for sure there intent is the eradication of Palestinian people.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You literally did not say what you think it is. You literally suggested.

You see those question marks you typed? They indicate uncertainty, which means you don’t know what it is. You should stop talking.

no need to mind read,
you can just take what I said as written.

I put question marks because those are suggestions,
you might agree or disagree with any of those labels.

 

[Dark Brandon]

That’s the point. I’m not going to take it as written because you won’t even pick one and stand by it. It’s really quite astounding how dense you are.

 

[me love nutella]

there is no "power imbalance requirement for genocide.

there is an intent requirement.

WWII bombing of Britain is not a genocide, because there intent was to scare the populace into electing politicians who would make peace with Britain.

not eradicated the British people. thus not a genocide.


illegal occupation is not a genocide.
power imbalance is not a genocide.

American had a huge power imbalance in the Iraq war.
USA killed many civilian's...still not a genocide.



you haven't you just keep listing bad things that Israel does. but none of speaks to intent.



it speaks to intent. According to you, Isreal has such immense power, such a HUGE asymetry.

you are telling me their intent is to irradicate the Palestinians, but for all there power they can't seem to do it in any way that causes literally any reduction in the population?

AND they do nothing about the ones within their country. or in bordering countries.

it's not pseudoscience, it's deductive reasoning.
and in the face of that I think it's a big reach to say yah for sure there intent is the eradication of Palestinian people.

I was trying to ask you WHY are you bringing in WWII, Germany and Britain, when it is a whole OTHER situation, not comparable to the Israel-Palestine conflict. But, I told you that you know there was a genocide of Jews, Catholics, LGBTQ+, Romas, and other communities. That is more comparable.

How are you bringing wars not comparable to the Israel-Palestine conflict in terms of ethnic cleansing and genocide aspects of it?

The crime of genocide does not require the total extermination of all people in Gaza. There is no specific death toll requirement, and the existence of genocidal intent may be deemed sufficient for the crime to be recognized. Intent is generally identified via an assessment of orders, statements, and actions of officials of the group or state that committed the crime at the time of the attack.

Is this not enough to you to prove intent?

In his address to Israeli soldiers participating in attacks on the Gaza Strip, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu likened Palestinians to an ancient tribe known as Amalek, referenced in the Hebrew Bible as a recurring foe of the Israelites that must be wiped out.

Another statement came from Israel's far-right heritage minister, Amihai Eliyahu, who said the use of a nuclear bomb in Gaza was "an option" in an interview.

Eliyahu, who was criticized by Israeli officials for his remarks, which were later withdrawn, also said there were "no civilians" in Gaza not involved in the conflict, showing apparent genocidal intent.

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant described his country's war with Palestinian groups in the Gaza Strip as "deadly" and said it would "change the situation forever," indicating that Israel has permanent plans against those in the enclave.

"We are fighting against animals," Gallant said of Palestinians in Gaza.

Israeli Health Minister Moshe Arbel's statement that injured Palestinians who were captured during an attack on Israel would not be treated, while Israel's former Permanent Representative to the UN Dan Gillerman's statement that Palestinians were "horrible, inhumane animals."

Israeli lawmaker Ariel Kallner said "the enemy must be brought to an end" and another, Moshe Saada, asserted: "No more surgical operations, humanitarian corridors, and door-knocking operations."

Besides these, Zvi Sukkot, another Israeli legislator who called Hamas "Nazis," said: "We will kill the Nazis and their assistants. We will not settle for less than this."

Israeli President Isaac Herzog attempted to justify civilian casualties by saying that civilians in Gaza were aware of Hamas' attacks and were complicit.

In addition to actions aimed at the collective punishment of people in Gaza, all these remarks reveal the Israeli government's genocidal intent.

Such remarks have not been limited to officials.

On social media, 95-year-old Israeli Ezra Yachin, reportedly an Israeli army volunteer, is on camera calling for a massacre of Palestinians saying: "Finish them and leave no one behind. Destroy even their memory. Destroy them and their families."

"Destroy their mothers and children. These animals can no longer survive. We have no excuse today. The Arabs here can also attack us. Every Jew with a gun should go out and kill them," Yachin said in clear evidence of genocidal intent.

More recently, retired Gen. Giora Eiland, former head of Israel's National Security Council, said in an article for the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper, that Israel has no choice but to make Gaza temporarily or permanently uninhabitable and said: "Israel is not only fighting against terrorism but also against all of Gaza."

His use of the statement "Gaza will turn into a place where no human being can exist" shows the existence of genocidal intent.

Israel has already wiped out 1% of Gaza's population.

As in regards to historical population growth, again, that does not prove there is no ethnic cleansing or genocide. I won't do the labour for you, but you can go look it up yourself on population growth post-war losses and ethnic cleansing/genocide. Please stop regurgitating Zionist hasbara/propaganda.

Demographics can be remarkably resilient to losses with the causes of that resiliency not uniform cross-nationally, but still does occur in certain regions of the world. Let me put it simple for you: It is clear that looking at the total population number to determine if any ethnic cleansing happened is not in and of itself a useful indicator. For example, if everyone was pushed out of New York into Austin, the total population number of New Yorkers in the U.S. would not differ. This would not change the fact that the entire population of New York was expelled.

Here's more learning for you to counter the Zionist hasbara graphs on ethnic cleansing you put in here:

 

[gry60]

illegal occupation?
indiscriminate bombing?
war crime (if applicable)?
inhumane?

tons of bad things are happening, no need to reach for the big G to win the argument.

Win the argument? Who ******* cares about an argument? The word "genocide" has a clear meaning that the actions and message of the Israeli government fit. That definition is not "Do exactly what the Nazis did to the Jewish people"

You're sounding like the US embassador to the UN talking about the Rwandan situation in 1994: "it's not Genocide; it's genocidal acts"

never mind the fact that Gaza population keeps increasing.
If this is a genocide it's the worst run one in the history of man.

Didn't know it was ok to commit crimes as long as you failed...

Would you characterize what happened to Igbos during the Biafra war as "not a genocide?" I mean, it's not like the Nigerian army was hunting your people in the Southwest and Northwest provinces in Cameroon...

This is foolishness

 

[mplsdunk]

Bro, he’s OBSESSED with “winning” arguments online.

He tried arguing with me about black people should be happy they benefitted from slavery. He just kept yelling “concede” over and over not making any sense and stuck to his clown take that black people benefitted from slavery.

Contrarian keyboard warrior

 

[DripNick]

Win the argument? Who ****ing cares about an argument?

Him, that's actually his whole schtick.
Lame *** always thinks he's in the HS/ college debate club, an eloquence contest or some ****. Always with the "witty" comebacks like it's a game, talking bout "G word" like people are not being ethnically cleansed while he's tap dancing like his life depends on it.
Ignore him.

 

[mplsdunk]

It’s weird af and his gimmick is played out.

Kids and innocent people get killed and he comes in with his “well actually” bs

 

[smedroc]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Win the argument? Who ****ing cares about an argument? The word "genocide" has a clear meaning that the actions and message of the Israeli government fit.

you care about the argument. That's why you keep evoking the term genocide, even tho it doesn't fit.

you even said it in an earlier post, if it gets called a genocide, you think it will spur action by the international community's.

of course the argument matters, you are advocating for your policy preferences. you can't argue in one breath and go "lol who cares" in another.

the intent part is totally strained so you need to keep handwaving.

That definition is not "Do exactly what the Nazis did to the Jewish people"

luckily for me I didn't make that argument.

Didn't know it was ok to commit crimes as long as you failed...

so the argument, is Israel has such IMMENSE power, such a MASSIVE ASYMETRY. Such an oppressive force.

but seem totally powerless to put into there intent into effect.

Isreal is a unstoppable colonial force when it suits your argument, but totally ineffectual when it doesn't.

Would you characterize what happened to Igbos during the Biafra war as "not a genocide?" I mean, it's not like the Nigerian army was hunting your people in the Southwest and Northwest provinces in Cameroon...

If you're asking me? I think people argue it. but no I don't think it was. I think there were some ethnic based reprisals at the end of the war.

but no i don't think the intent of the Nigerian governments was the eradication of the Igbos.

maybe you could argue very specific instances but like the Nigerian Army I don't think was genecidal in its intent.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Bro, he’s OBSESSED with “winning” arguments online.

again this seems pretty hypocritcal. we are both here arguing on the sneaker forum. I don't know why you get to decide what is appropriate to argue about and what isn't.

i think you've take a intellectually shaky position, and now you are just using shame to avoid having to defend it.

He tried arguing with me about black people should be happy they benefitted from slavery.

I never said this.

He just kept yelling “concede” over and over not making any sense and stuck to his clown take that black people benefitted from slavery.

This is a fantasy.

Contrarian keyboard warrior

name calling; the key sign of a great and confident argument.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Him, that's actually his whole schtick.
Lame *** always thinks he's in the HS/ college debate club, an eloquence contest or some ****. Always with the "witty" comebacks like it's a game, talking bout "G word" like people are not being ethnically cleansed while he's tap dancing like his life depends on it.
Ignore him.

again I think a serious subject deserves serious consideration and intellectually rigorous arguments.

This thread was credulously posting Nazi tweets a week ago, so I actually think I'm raising the quality of the discussion.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I was trying to ask you WHY are you bringing in WWII, Germany and Britain, when it is a whole OTHER situation, not comparable to the Israel-Palestine conflict. But, I told you that you know there was a genocide of Jews, Catholics, LGBTQ+, Romas, and other communities. That is more comparable.

that's the purpose of analogy
if they were perfectly the same we wouldn't need the analogy.

im not saying they are exactly the same, im using to show the intent requirement is the critical factor. not civilian casualties. indiscriminate bombings. ect.

The crime of genocide does not require the total extermination of all people in Gaza. There is no specific death toll requirement, and the existence of genocidal intent may be deemed sufficient for the crime to be recognized. Intent is generally identified via an assessment of orders, statements, and actions of officials of the group or state that committed the crime at the time of the attack.

I didn't say that it did, but the actions of the state towards people of target of intent help us deduce intent.

Israel has already wiped out 1% of Gaza's population.

As in regards to historical population growth, again, that does not prove there is no ethnic cleansing or genocide. I won't do the labour for you, but you can go look it up yourself on population growth post-war losses and ethnic cleansing/genocide. Please stop regurgitating Zionist hasbara/propaganda.

1. I said it's not a genocide, I never said there was no ethnic cleansing.

2. you keep switching it, sometimes the death toll, matters then when it suits your argument it doesn't matter. Which is it?

3. I don't understand what this video is proving. It doesn't seem to dispute that Palestine's population is growing.

4. its funny to call, what im saying propaganda.
If you asked me, Id prob say the occupation is illegal, the west banks settlements are def super illegal and Bibi and his right wing backers are insane.

but because I stop and say it's not a genocide. Im a "propagandist", "objectively sick"

if it's propaganda, im sure a Zionist would laugh.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It’s weird af and his gimmick is played out.

Kids and innocent people get killed and he comes in with his “well actually” bs

also to be very clear. I doesn't matter how high the death toll is.

im never going to affirm bad arguments, or agree with things that don't make sense to fit in with crowd.

I can't abandon reason, no matter how emotional the argument.

 

[DripNick]

 

[mplsdunk]

Yes, we get it. You live to argue about all topics.

 

[Dark Brandon]

No wonder Meth has to keep these ads running on NT. MFers like you just wasting bandwidth on bad faith arguments that you still won’t even definitively claim what’s happening.