John Salley On Michael Jordan! "He's Not The Greatest Player Ever"

[shoeking2101]

This dude shoeking2101 is the reason why i hate the likings of kobe and lebron. i give props when props are due...i believe as of right now Lebron is the best player in the NBA. but come on dude is half way his career and shoeking2101 is already calling him the GOAT, and obvious stats wise shoeking2101 cant argue with iamyourfather and so he say u dont look at stats when ur looking for a GOAT player...like ****. Lebron took the biggest L in the recent history of NBA last year with the decision + final performance. earning him the nickname lechoke. But he prove himself this year with the champ and now i consider him being a legend (top 10-15 all time already imo) but his not in the conversation for the GOAT player yet. Let the man get another or champ or 3 peat and i would see the validation of you sayin his GOAT.

Okay man damb for like the fifth time in this thread I said YALL WIN. I get it. Lebron isn't the goat, Jordan is, whatever I don't care. None of these guys are even my favorite player, I don't care move on and off of my argument champ

 

[imonnt]

Kobe may be the closest thing to Jordan aesthetics wise, but in his own "era/generation" there are players who have done more than him on the floor, pound for pound. 

Naw... Im not even a Kobe d-rider and i have to disagree. Nobody in the L was touching Kobe in his prime.. he was pretty much unguardable. "Pound for pound" Kobe was putting up crazy numbers for someone that was just average in height & weight for the NBA. He was as dominant of a SG as Jordan was in the 90s. Never said he was better than MJ... but he's arguably the closest thing to MJ because they are basically the same type of player.

Right now Jordan is the G.O.A.T... but what Kobe, Lebron, and KD have over him is that they're still in the league and still writing their own history. We'll see what happens when its all said and done.

 

[shoeking2101]

Naw... Im not even a Kobe d-rider and i have to disagree. Nobody in the L was touching Kobe in his prime.. he was pretty much unguardable. "Pound for pound" Kobe was putting up crazy numbers for someone that was just average in height & weight for the NBA. He was as dominant of a SG as Jordan was in the 90s. Never said he was better than MJ... but he's arguably the closest thing to MJ because they are basically the same type of player.

Right now Jordan is the G.O.A.T... but what Kobe, Lebron, and KD have over him is that they're still in the league and still writing their own history. We'll see what happens when its all said and done.

You think what Kobe was doing in his prime is better than what Lebron is doing right now? I disagree completely, Lebron creates for others better, rebounds better, and scores far more efficiently than Kobe does, even in Kobe's prime years.

We will see how this all pans out in the years to come though, as you alluded to.

 

[heshua]

Stats have a tendency to be skewed based on the basis of era, competition, etc. that's why I was sticking to theme of just a BASKETBALL player. I don't know about you, but if the Lebron James i'm talking about, played in the same era as MJ, he too would rack up statistics that are even more incredible than he already does right now...

:x :x You do NOT believe that fam. You're saying that just to say it. Your own mother wouldnt believe you if you said that. Actually, she probably hates you right now because of that.

 

[vanexellent]

I dont think you can compare a completed career to career just now reaching greatness. You can forecast or predict that someone has potential to reach or even eclipse Jordan (the measuring stick of greatness as least to perimeter players) but after its clear that a player cant (like Kobe) then you move on the next potential player. And this is comparing to Jordan as a whole which alot of people either were too young to see or neglect to remember that he did not get to the Finals till his 7th season (cant win Finals series that your team isnt playing in) and his team did get put out in early playoff rounds along the way. Or seem to forget that Jordan was heavily critiqued for being a ballhog who didnt get his teammates involved. When all the pieces clicked then he and his Bulls teams were great but he wasnt always the best player in the league or was a great individual player putting up awesome numbers for mid level teams.

LeBron is the best in the World and COULD end up being the g.o.a.t but unless he runs off some more titles and MVP's then he is still stuck on that "COULD BE" level in my opinion. The groundwork and layout is there for James if keeps up this level but whose to say whether an injury or other factors interfere with this. Kobe had potential but started out as "the man" of his team when he was already 7 years in and with mileage (and personal baggage). He reached a Jordan-esque level for only a couple seasons till age, injuries and mileage made it evident that Jordan's legacy was still unmatched.

 

[luckyp824]

These next 3 seasons will be huge for Lebron & Kobe's legacies. 

 

[5dividedby4]

Some of you make it hard to be a LeBron James fan. I tell you.

 

[duba169]

You guys remember when MJ plotted and colluded to get together with two rivals? Me neither. Can't be the best with that AAU entitlement garbage

And Kareem gets so much disrespect SMH.

 

[goldmember]

and how do you lebron fans like these stats, from "prime lebron" against the softest team to appear in the nba finals history since the 06 mavs lol

17.8ppg, 7.2 reb, 6.8 ast, in the finals, the game's biggest stage. pathetic.. points per game DOWN 8.9 points from the regular season, rebounds and assist averages both down as well

but that's whose apparently closing the gap on the goat right.. 

This never happened .. in the eyes of a lebron stan so good luck convincing them about it

 

[al3xis]

LeBron James is coming very close to being the most complete basketball player I've ever seen.

But, He's not the most accomplished or even close. And that's a hard line to distinguish.

I also think Phil Jackson is the elephant in the room that nobody ever discusses. Probably because it doesn't favor MJ or Kobe. Not saying, but just saying.

 

[True Blues]

Yup, John Sally saying MJ is the GOAT = No one blinks
John Sally saying MJ is not the GOAT = My name is in tomorrow's papers, look at me

Yep, this is a career move for Salley.

I'm sure he's realized that being a contrarian in the mold of Skip Bayless or Stephen A. Smith is a profitable role for sports analysts.

 

[HEATHEN]

:x :x You do NOT believe that fam. You're saying that just to say it. Your own mother wouldnt believe you if you said that. Actually, she probably hates you right now because of that.

 

[flyerthandelta]

@IamyourFather needs a STANDING OVATION seriously though y'all give it up for him, some of y'all Lebron Stan's really must be 16yrs old oryounger ....again if you really saw mike play you wouldn't disrespect the GOAT like that...if Lebron was such a complete player ever with 2 other allstars weaker centers in the league and defenses much softer than the 90s era then 72-10 record wouldn't be far fetched right...RIP

 

[Coupé It]

You don't know this though, that's an assumption. Who's to say that he really wanted to fulfill his father's wish without caring for any championships regarding basketball?...
And how many rings did a 27 year old MJ have? Also, if you are seriously going to use Dwade and Bosh to dilute how great of a player Lebron is, after watching it with your own eyes, then I don't know what to say.

I know Jordan would have won 8 straight championships if he never retired in 1994, the Houston Rocket weren't taking Jordan and the Bulls down, they barely beat the Knicks.

At 27 years of age Michael Jordan had been in the league for 6 years and won his championship the following year when he was 28. LeBron's entering his 9th season and just won, but he went to Miami to do so.

I'm not diluting anything about LeBron's game. He's the best player on the planet, a physical specimen but he has it easy. Their is a reason why LeBron shot a ridiculous 54% from the field this season, with Wade out on the wing and Chris Bosh down low getting ready to pick and roll its a legitimate cake walk for someone of LeBron James caliber and strength. He doesn't get double teamed like he used to, most of his shots are in the paint. Look at D-Wade's FG percentage since LeBron, it shot up as well because its much easier for him to play his game uncontested. Bosh, Wade & LeBron benefit each other so much just by being on the court. They are all offensive threats, that floor is spread wide open.

Michael Jordan did more with less, easily. He never had two potential 20+ scorers on his team. He shot the ball more than LeBron because he didn't trust anyone else, he knew he could lead a team to championships just by his offense alone, and he was the best closer the NBA has ever seen. Don't blame Michael for not passing more because his method worked. LeBron is not close to being the scorer Michael Jordan was (yet). Michael's offensive arsenal was way more diverse and complete than LeBrons. If LeBron can't slash or drive to the hoop one night because Dwight Howard or Tyson Chandler are down low (09 conference finals, 11 Finals) he's lost. He doesn't know what to do because his mid range is suspect. Michael had more weapons.

Defensively they are both great. Michael would get a ridiculous amount of steals and blocks per game but LeBron is capable of matching up with centers, Michael couldn't do that because of his size but he was also playing during a time where their were legitimate centers and power forwards, Lebron plays during a time that athletic guards run the show. They're different.

Conclusion: Michael Jordan and LeBron James are two totally different players who won a championship(s) playing their own way, however LeBron has a lot of time left and this shouldn't be a discussion until LeBron is around Kobe's age. You can debate Kobe an Michael because Kobe has basically wrote his own script already, he's not getting any better from now on. Sorry to upset the Kobe stans, he did not win.

 

[iamyourfather]

Kobe Bryant is also better than Jordan, thats the most skilled player to ever pick up a basketball, he has absolutely zero weakness, and he has that Jordan competitive edge!

-AI

lmao kobe got out played by paul pierce in 08 and the lakers got blown out by 39 points in a series clinching game but that's who you're putting your money on as the best to ever do it right... 

people acting like kobe wasn't the SIDEKICK to 3 straight titles in los angeles... someone please argue otherwise.. because if you act like kobe wasn't Shaq's SIDEKICK i'll give you some quick facts:

2000 nba finals mvp: Shaq

2001 nba finals mvp: Shaq

2002 nba finals mvp: Shaq

here's some more

shaq's 2000 nba finals stats: 38 ppg on 61% fg, 16.7 rebs... kobe: 15.6 ppg on 36% fg 

shaq's 2001 nba finals stats: 33 ppg on 57% fg, 15 rebs... kobe: 24.6 on 41% fg

shaq's 2002 nba finals stats: 36.3ppg on 59.5% fg, 12.3 reb ... kobe: 26.8ppg on 51% fg

oh wait... im remembering it wrong... yess... yess .. i see it now... it was KOBE leading the lakers to the 3peat, not shaq.. it was kobe getting 3 straight nba finals mvp's, not shaq.... 

yes that's the goat!

first trip back to the finals post-shaq era and gets humiliated by paul pierce and the celtics

 

[flyerthandelta]

Nah i aint that crazy Kobe aint better than MJ hes the closest one tho...no one is greater than MJ period even if Kobe wins another 2-3 titles those first 3 was all shaq even ill admit that... MJ>KOBE>Bron

 

[iamyourfather]

im not even saying lebron is garbage.. but damn dudes are quick to forget all his clear shortcomings in the past.. dude was deferring to boobie gibson mo williams and other mfers on the cavs cuz he wasnt willing to take big shots.. hows anyone gona call someone like that the best ever.. so many other players lived for those moments. 

and again here are some numbers

2-0-2-2. those were lebron's 4th quarter numbers thru 5 games in the 2011 finals. this was a player 8-9 years into his career, who had already been dominated in the finals, now on a finals-favorite new super team playing for redemption against the softest team in the league... 

and those are his numbers. give me a break. what happened to all his "talent" then? 6 points through 4 full quarters of crunch time basketball. 6. 

 

[cashbanks]

And where was he in the finals this year?

Dude never steps up

LeBron aint never gunna be ****

 

[CP1708]

Jordan would NOT have won 8 straight titles. People need to get banned for saying things like that.

Those guys legs in 98 were WEARY. You put two extra years in the middle of that run (an extra 185 or so games give or take), and Jordan and Pip wouldn't even be playing in the NBA in 98.

Could they have won 4-5 in a row, say, from 91 to 96? Yeah, they could have. But 91 all the way to 98, an extra 20 PLAYOFF games per year more than anyone else? No way in the world. Zero chance.

 

[finallyfamous]

Lebron is so ahead of everyone in the game right now it's a joke.

This is coming from a die hard CLE fan too.

You guys are delusional is you think other.

He dominated this entire year

 

[ayodude]

Glad someone had it in them to say this. Jordan was and is not the greatest to play in the NBA, he is a product of great marketing & timing. The NBA/Stern knew what they were doing ...

 

[iamyourfather]

lol yea jordan is just a marketing gimmick.. i wish your fathers hadn't left your mothers and raised u properly. kids are wild as fk these days

 

[maliz]

Stats have a tendency to be skewed based on the basis of era, competition, etc. that's why I was sticking to theme of just a BASKETBALL player. I don't know about you, but if the Lebron James i'm talking about, played in the same era as MJ, he too would rack up statistics that are even more incredible than he already does right now...

:x >:

loss of words...

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

dude is trolling

 

[tony3di]

Isn't Kobe Bryant the one they call the greatest Laker ever? What team in LA has been short of super stars? The Lakers always have a plethora of all stars on their team...

Jordan played with Pippen, again Pippen did lead the bulls to the eastern conference finals, not to mention during the 90's the Bulls where the "Superstar" Team w/ that "Superstar" Coach in Phil Jackson, they ahd all the right pieces & played together as a cohesive unit, not to mention smothering TEAM defense.

Teams WIN championships, individuals don't

Everybody brings up accolades & stats that doesn't really say anything, dude was a ball hog he took a lot of shots, his percentage was high because majority of his field goals came within 15 ft & in

NBA awards are often political, Like Tyson Chandler winning defensive player of the year. but not even getting NBA ALL FIRST TEAM IN DEFENSE?

Jordan was revolutionary, but just watch his games, i've watched plenty he dominated a specific era, & had the best "shoes" and Marketing campaign ever

Jordan was a ball hog, if he went left he did pull up, when he drove right it was over, dude had a great mid range game, he had a great mentality & thats what made him great, but you have to realize the players nowadays have more talent, every position has increased talent with the exception of center, & thats simply because all kids these days want to be guards, or be like Lebron, or Kevin Durant, it's been a ongoing theme for the past 14 years or so, kids grow up wanting to be guards, its a guard game nowadays, me perosnally when I was in high school i hated passing the ball to bigs, only when I drove & dished for a clear lay up or dunk, if it wasnt clear i' aint give it up LOL

Jordan would dominate in this era to, but yall are crazy if you think hes winning 6 championships, he's dominating this era because of that mentality, & if he was playing nobody would know who the best player in the NBA is, because there are 10 others who are dominating as well.. & none more dominating than Lebron James

 

[shoeking2101]

Saying Jordan is better than Lebron, aight I get that. My very first post in this thread acknowledged that.

But KOBE? Really? Since Lebron has came into the league he has OWNED kobe completely. I also don't understand how Lebron gets picked on for playing with D-Wade and Bosh when Kobe in his career has played with Shaq, Pau, Karl Malone, GP, and now Steve Nash & Dwight Howard all the while being coached by Phil Jackson for 10 plus years. (Without that help, Kobe went on record stating he would rather play on another planet than play for the Lakers but I digress )

Kobe has never shot over 50% in a season, never been upwards of 6 assist in a season, has never rebounded over 7 a game for a season, and you want to bring up "LeChoke" and his playoff failures why not look at 04' against detroit, 08 against the C's when Paul Pierce shut him down, or even in game 7 in 06' second half.

I'm not even that big of a stat guy but I don't see how you can come up with Kobe>Lebron. Baffling.