Khleo Thomas Speaks on Joe Burdens Opinion On Lil Yachty

[tay1]

We all know when folks get older, many are unable to accept the music of their times. However, it just seems worse with Hip Hop. I found myself agreeing with whoever this dude is when he brought up the point of Metallica not ******** on Blink 182. What y'all think bout what he said?

 

[allout46]

Good point but hip hop is intertwined with black culture. So it's right for Joe to defend the culture over $$$

 

[Peep Game]

Didn't watch the video and don't know who that is, but a big reason that happens is cause hip hop was predicated on youth and being "a young man's game", and that mentality has caused it to "not be cool" to get older. There's problems on both sides. Younger folks often lack simple respect for greats and have a non-caring attitude when it comes to history. On the flip side, older folks feel like they've lived it all and their thoughts are the 100% right ones. Some folks don't know how to age gracefully like Nas or AZ, they try to make the same type of music to fit in with the younger crowd, but come off looking silly (50 Cent). That old vs new mentality just isn't in other genres cause it wasn't there at the start like hip hop's was.

 

[a blinkin]

Who on earth would dare **** on Blink182?


In all seriousness, good video.

 

[tay1]

Good point but hip hop is intertwined with black culture. So it's right for Joe to defend the culture over $$$

It's just more about old heads ******** on young folk. The amount of dudes that has came at Yachty so far is a bit much.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

There's an underlying element to why "older" heads have an aversion to the colored head kids and it's related the effeminate image alot of them portray. This is the first time ever that the "cool kids" of the culture are rocking purses and doing a bunch of other stuff that just wasn't flying in previous eras.

Right or wrong...that's the elephant in the room that doesn't get discussed often. 

 

[tay1]

There's an underlying element to why "older" heads have an aversion to the colored head kids and it's related the effeminate image alot of them portray. This is the first time ever that the "cool kids" of the culture are rocking purses and doing a bunch of other stuff that just wasn't flying in previous eras.

Right or wrong...that's the elephant in the room that doesn't get discussed often. 

None of what you said has to do with music

 

[VARNELL HILL]

None of what you said has to do with music

And?

 

[TipsyMcStagga]

Originally Posted by tyisny

i Like that Joe sticks to the old values of rap, i understand things changing but we can't act as if everything about the culture should be erased because some kids like things a certain way.

that kind of hip hop always existed but there's never been an era in hip hop until now where the fans will tell you it's okay for a rapper to not be able to rap, that hip hop isn't competitive, that being non original and copying someones style is cool. It wasn't until recently that these sort of ideas seem to be gaining more and more steam. I'm not saying Yachty's music doesn't have a place but i'm sick of this narrative that people who actually care about the quality of their rap music is bitter or stuck in old ways.

I can't stress enough how bad i wish people would completely put certain kinds of music in another genre completely. what a yachty fan is looking for when they want to hear that music isn't really rap at this point. And yet a lot of the criticism and arguments come because it's marketed as something that it isn't.

This was posted in another thread earlier and this is pretty much how I feel about it.

 

[sclusive kickz]

None of what you said has to do with music

Yet it has everything to do with the culture. It was never OK in hip-hop to do and wear some of the things we're experiencing today. Effeminacy is now the status quo but it'll never be acceptable to the previous generation of hip-hop heads. It's easy to make it an old vs young issue but the fact is many new rappers are still accepted and respected as long as they're spitting. Unfortunately, Yatchy is hot garbage lyrically, which is ok, but don't call yourself a hip-hop artist if you don't meet the bar.

 

[tay1]

Yet it has everything to do with the culture. It was never OK in hip-hop to do and wear some of the things we're experiencing today. Effeminacy is now the status quo but it'll never be acceptable to the previous generation of hip-hop heads. It's easy to make it an old vs young issue but the fact is many new rappers are still accepted and respected as long as they're spitting. Unfortunately, Yatchy is hot garbage lyrically, which is ok, but don't call yourself a hip-hop artist if you don't meet the bar.

 

[wavycrocket]

Ain't that yo from Family Matters/Holes/Bow Wow DJ?

 

[VARNELL HILL]

 

I guess you missed when he said "previous generation of hip-hop heads". That's not the previous generation. 

Nobody who grew up on those guys are listening to hip hop or probably care what's going on in hip hop right now. They have grandchildren. 

 

[tay1]

Nothing is being erased. The mainstream climate has just evolved. There are still traditional rappers out there.

And I disagree with that last part completely about putting music in certain genre's and that his music isn't rap.. That's just like saying since most music that didn't feature DJ's heavily and involved breaking after it wasn't as popular anymore isn't hip hop.

Part of my issue is people want hip hop to be this one thing instead of accepting that things change and always will. Now is Yachty and most of these rappers today MC's? No. Not at all. If one doesn't like it that's fine, but I just don't care for when people say this and that aint Hip Hop because it isn't  their version of hip hop and what they want it to be. That's limiting. 

 

[wavycrocket]

Yet it has everything to do with the culture. It was never OK in hip-hop to do and wear some of the things we're experiencing today. Effeminacy is now the status quo but it'll never be acceptable to the previous generation of hip-hop heads. It's easy to make it an old vs young issue but the fact is many new rappers are still accepted and respected as long as they're spitting. Unfortunately, Yatchy is hot garbage lyrically, which is ok, but don't call yourself a hip-hop artist if you don't meet the bar.

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Look at eeem.....

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[sclusive kickz]

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You must not be old enough to remember the 80s. Hip-hop is derived from the disco era, ANYONE with a sense of style dressed like that at the time. Still, none of them are wearing dresses or carrying purses.

Another underlying issue seems to be the inability to discern hip-hop from rap and thinking that hip-hop ISN'T one thing. Hip-hop is hip-hop, period. You can't change the essence of something and continue to identify it the same way. As it was said before, fans of Yatchy and Lil Uzi aren't checking for Nas or J.Cole and vice-versa, which makes the Metallica/Blink 182 thing ironic seeing as they're AREN'T even the same genre.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

I'm sorry. Did anyone imply that effeminacy just started?

I can recall every single one of those guys getting clowned for those also. The key here in influence and culture. These things weren't CULTURALLY celebrated and replicated. Correct me if I'm wrong...but I can't recall anyone rushing to replicate that outfit Busta has on.

I can do a quick instagram search and SHOW you masses of kids who want to be Ian Connor. He's the "king of the youth" and is recognized as such. That speaks VOLUMES. 

 

[tay1]

Look at eeem.....

 

[tay1]

You must not be old enough to remember the 80s. Hip-hop is derived from the disco era, ANYONE with a sense of style dressed like that at the time. Still, none of them are wearing dresses or carrying purses.

Another underlying issue seems to be the inability to discern hip-hop from rap and thinking that hip-hop ISN'T one thing. Hip-hop is hip-hop, period. You can't change the essence of something and continue to identify it the same way. As it was said before, fans of Yatchy and Lil Uzi aren't checking for Nas or J.Cole and vice-versa, which makes the Metallica/Blink 182 thing ironic seeing as they're AREN'T even the same genre.

That's just defending what you think is ok. Doesn't matter if it derived from disco or not. It's still sus. The sus in these dudes fashion aint never left hip hop 

Metallica and Blink are in the same genre. It's all Rock. Thrash and pop punk are just different sub-genres under the same umbrella. And the fact that fans of Yachty and Lil Uzi aren't checking for Nas or Cole doesn't even matter. Why would I expect them too? I don't expect everyone to revisit music prior to when they were born. Are you listening to Afrika Bambata, Granmaster Flash and the Furious 5, etc.

 

[sclusive kickz]

I'm not sure why you guys took the time to post all of these pics, but i'll gladly school you.

1. These are tunics, not dresses. Busta, 3000, and Cee-Lo are all iconic for them. In fact, tunics have been worn by men for centuries. They weren't even viewed negatively during a time when homosexuality was still taboo.
2. Men have permed their hair and rocked jherri curls for decades.
3. Cam'Ron is NOT hip-hop.
4. Homosexuality and effeminacy are 2 different things, Mister Cee never displayed feminine traits on air or in music. His personal life is just that.
5. Diddy is wearing a kilt.

*waits for rapper with purse pic*

Effeminacy is in hip-hop definitely a new thing; androgyny in music, particularly the fashion, is not.

That's just defending what you think is ok. Doesn't matter if it derived from disco or not. It's still sus. The sus in these dudes fashion aint never left hip hop 

Metallica and Blink are in the same genre. It's all Rock. Thrash and pop punk are just different sub-genres under the same umbrella. And the fact that fans of Yachty and Lil Uzi aren't checking for Nas or Cole doesn't even matter. Why would I expect them too? I don't expect everyone to revisit music prior to when they were born. Are you listening to Afrika Bambata, Granmaster Flash and the Furious 5, etc.

I'm still trying to figure out what was sus about it. It's not like they were cross-dressing, they're wearing what people of that era wore.

The same way DMC's adidas trand and Cool J's Kangols replaced the fashion that came prior. And, no. Metallica is considered Metal, while Blink 182 would be Punk Rock. Metal is a derivative of Rock, not a sub-genre. Actually I listen to mostly hip-hop, and rap prior to 07 because I don't care for many new rappers. The point is if Mumble rap was hip-hop, it would share fanbases. It's a sub-genre of rap, not hip-hop.

 

[wavycrocket]

I'm sorry. Did anyone imply that effeminacy just started?

I can recall every single one of those guys getting clowned for those also. The key here in influence and culture. These things weren't CULTURALLY celebrated and replicated. Correct me if I'm wrong...but I can't recall anyone rushing to replicate that outfit Busta has on.

I can do a quick instagram search and SHOW you masses of kids who want to be Ian Connor. He's the "king of the youth" and is recognized as such. That speaks VOLUMES. 

The Trolling, Iromic, Tumblr culture is really a niche culture in hip hop/internet.

Cam had a whole bunch of ***** rocking pink. I remember pink tees at footlocker becoming a thing in 03. Pink headbands, af1 all that .

kids are replicating fits/styles because of social media. It's much more accessible. These are also the festival rap fan that are not really engaged or grew up in the culture.

Also, MOST kids don't dress "effeminate ". They actually wear clothes that fit them. Jogggers, nikes, adidas, skinny jeans, tees etc. The average kid that's into hip hop dresses more like Kendrick or Meek Mill than Young Thug.

Also, the guys I posted are highly respected in hip hop. Yes they may have got clowned for it....but it was just shrugged over.

2 of the most important and celebrated black musicians were wild effeminate (MJ & Prince).

***** spend waaay too much time worrying about music that's not intended for them....when the guys that are actually currently making the biggest tangible impact in hip hop are 30 year olds that are highly respected and actually talented.

The colored dread tumblr crowd ain't for me. It's just another sub genre of hip hop that's unfortunately widely popular amongst a faction of the youth right now. It's carefree music...for carefree people. Y'all see who actually goes to Coachella and stuff? That's their audience.

 

[wavycrocket]

I'm not sure why you guys took the time to post all of these pics, but i'll gladly school you.

1. These are tunics, not dresses. Busta, 3000, and Cee-Lo are all iconic for them. In fact, tunics have been worn by men for centuries. They weren't even viewed negatively during a time when homosexuality was still taboo.
2. Men have permed their hair and rocked jherri curls for decades.
3. Cam'Ron is NOT hip-hop.
4. Homosexuality and effeminacy are 2 different things, Mister Cee never displayed feminine traits on air or in music. His personal life is just that.
5. Diddy is wearing a kilt.

*waits for rapper with purse pic*

Effeminacy is in hip-hop definitely a new thing; androgyny in music, particularly the fashion, is not.

All credibility lost right here. COTC? Dipset? Rocafella? Big L? Not hip hop? That's cams legacy right there...

And at the deflection and spin. "It's a tunic, not a dress."

 

[Peep Game]

Cam'Ron's not hip hop??





Man please

 

[tay1]

I'm not sure why you guys took the time to post all of these pics, but i'll gladly school you.

1. These are tunics, not dresses. Busta, 3000, and Cee-Lo are all iconic for them. In fact, tunics have been worn by men for centuries. They weren't even viewed negatively during a time when homosexuality was still taboo.
2. Men have permed their hair and rocked jherri curls for decades.
3. Cam'Ron is NOT hip-hop.
4. Homosexuality and effeminacy are 2 different things, Mister Cee never displayed feminine traits on air or in music. His personal life is just that.
5. Diddy is wearing a kilt.

*waits for rapper with purse pic*

Effeminacy is in hip-hop definitely a new thing; androgyny in music, particularly the fashion, is not.

Cam aint hip hop 

​ 

 

[VARNELL HILL]

The Trolling, Iromic, Tumblr culture is really a niche culture in hip hop/internet.

Cam had a whole bunch of ***** rocking pink. I remember pink tees at footlocker becoming a thing in 03. Pink headbands, af1 all that

.

kids are replicating fits/styles because of social media. It's much more accessible. These are also the festival rap fan that are not really engaged or grew up in the culture.

Also, MOST kids don't dress "effeminate ". They actually wear clothes that fit them. Jogggers, nikes, adidas, skinny jeans, tees etc. The average kid that's into hip hop dresses more like Kendrick or Meek Mill than Young Thug.

Also, the guys I posted are highly respected in hip hop. Yes they may have got clowned for it....but it was just shrugged over.

2 of the most important and celebrated black musicians were wild effeminate (MJ & Prince).

***** spend waaay too much time worrying about music that's not intended for them....when the guys that are actually currently making the biggest tangible impact in hip hop are 30 year olds that are highly respected and actually talented.

The colored dread tumblr crowd ain't for me. It's just another sub genre of hip hop that's unfortunately widely popular amongst a faction of the youth right now. It's carefree music...for carefree people. Y'all see who actually goes to Coachella and stuff? That's their audience.

I think you're wildly underestimating the reach and influence of the particular group of rappers we're discussing. I'm well aware of who MJ & Prince are...we're discussing hip-hop though. You know damn well that this particular archetype of rapper is something that would be frowned upon not that long ago. I'm not shrugging over anything. I can write an essay on effeminacy within hip hop over the last 30 years. This convo started on the base of a clash between today and yesterday - Millennials and Generation-Y -  and some of the things that might cause a disconnect from the former's point of view. It's not about what was "intended" for someone. This is a conversation on culture for the most part and I'm not sure fitting within the target audience  needs to be a prerequisite to have an opinion on it. Love and Hip-Hop ain't for me. I can give you an opinion on it tho. 

Aaron McGruder LITERALLY predicted this ****.