kobe vs. tmac vol.

[thadoctadvocate]

they played eachother soo hard

the defenseive effort

 

[PRIME]

Two of the best guards ever

 

[Trillmatic90]

Man, I feel like Tmac never fully reached his potential. I think if it weren't for injuries among other things, he would still be able to contribute 20 ppg on some team in today's league.

 

[AgentZero]

[h1]The Unfortunate Tale of T-Mac[/h1][h3]Tracy McGrady was a superstar who always seemed to find himself on the wrong team with the wrong players[/h3]
By Bill Simmons  on August 30, 2013

..."We want to remember the eight-year stretch from 2001 through 2008, when McGrady's production was barely different from Kobe Bryant's production. Here, look.

Player A (reg. season):  26.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.5 apg, 44-34-75%, 21.8 FGA, 7.4 FTA, 24.2 PER, 32.7 usage

Player B (reg. season):  29.0 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.3 apg, 45-34-84%, 21.9 FGA, 9.0 FTA, 25.0 PER, 32.6 usage

You probably figured out that Player B was Kobe. (True.) But you had to think about it. This goofy exercise gets harder when you compare T-Mac's playoff averages from 2001 to 2008 (35 games) with Kobe's playoff averages over that same stretch (102 games).

Player A:  28.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.3 apg, 43.4 mpg, 45-33-81%, 22.6 FGA, 8.3 FTA, 22.5 PER, 31.1 usage

Player B:  29.5 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.5 apg, 42.6 mpg, 43-30-75%, 24.5 FGA, 9.1 FTA, 25.4 PER, 35.3 usage

You probably figured out that Player B was Kobe. Wrong. It was T-Mac. Those 35 playoff games became part of his legacy, for better or worse — superduperstar numbers for someone who obviously couldn't be a superduperstar because (hold on, I'm grabbing my sports radio voice) let's be honest, folks, superduperstars should make the second round!We judge these guys by playoff wins first and everything else second. Most of the time, it's totally fair. In T-Mac's case, it's not totally fair. Kobe had Shaq and Phil, and later Gasol and Odom, with a slew of Horrys and Fishers and Rices mixed in. T-Mac's best teammates were Yao Ming, Grant Hill (played 46 games in four years with McGrady), Mike Miller, a washed-up Dikembe Mutombo, a really washed-up Patrick Ewing, and a really, really, really washed-up Shawn Kemp."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9616069/the-unfortunate-tale-t-mac

 

[thadoctadvocate]

Man, I feel like Tmac never fully reached his potential. I think if it weren't for injuries among other things, he would still be able to contribute 20 ppg on some team in today's league.

I think barring injuries he wood b around kobées level

 

[Trillmatic90]

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

 

[cedric ceballos]

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

That and the injuries were his downfall. The drive part can't be taught though. Some guys just have it. Some don't

 

[thadoctadvocate]

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

No but he had the talent he just never had any help to help him reach the next level

 

[6 Rings G.O.A.T.]

 

[sea manup]

 

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

No but he had the talent he just never had any help to help him reach the next level

not an excuse, lebron didnt have help KG didnt have help kobe didnt have help (after shaq left). you cant sit around waiting for help to come in the nba if you're a superstar its on you to put yourself in a position to succeed (going to a new team with help/teaming up with other good players/demanding that your team improve ect.) i guy who is wired like kobe (mad that he ONLY has 5 chips) is going to be more successful than someone wired like tmac (happy just to have played in the nba).

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

Yup.

 

[Deleted member 40717]

 

[wavycrocket]

not an excuse, lebron didnt have help KG didnt have help kobe didnt have help (after shaq left). you cant sit around waiting for help to come in the nba if you're a superstar its on you to put yourself in a position to succeed (going to a new team with help/teaming up with other good players/demanding that your team improve ect.) i guy who is wired like kobe (mad that he ONLY has 5 chips) is going to be more successful than someone wired like tmac (happy just to have played in the nba).

KG was a 2nd round Virgin for 7yrs lol. Its not until he got help (Cassell, Spre and Wally) that he made the WCF. Darell Armstrong was T-Mac's most consistent running mate lmao.

 

[PRIME]

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

Hard work beats talent every time indeed. BUT...

I wouldn't say TMac didn't have the drive. Yes, he had that raw talent (Kobe also had raw talent, TMac just had more of a polished game earlier on), but we can't say that he didn't have the drive to win. TMac would have destroyed the league if he had a legit big in orlando.

If you would have put a prime TMac on the Magic team in 09, chances are, they would have beaten Kobe and the Lakers... And I'm a Lakers fan...

He was that good. Sometimes when you're really good it may look like you're not putting in any effort, or don't have any drive. But even the most garbage person can LOOK like they're putting in more work, but in reality, just not.

I if think had TMac had the spotlight and opportunity to dominate without those injuries, he could have gotten closer to a ring.


The best example you could ever use in comparison is Lebron... TMac is what Lebron might have turned out to be if he didn't leave Cleveland. Lebron had to surround himself with more talent. The closest TMac had was the Rockets and last years Spurs... And he was old/injured/not the same by the time he got to the Spurs. Tmac never got to the right team. Houston was close, but they could just never get it done. He always needed 1 more thing, or was the one thing another team needed, but they just never linked together. TMac on the Mavs in 06 would have been a different story for Miami. Or TMac in San Antonio earlier on would have been more rings for Duncan... Thats just something we never saw because he was always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Kobe's drive is always the center of attention because Kobe gets so much of the spotlight. Also, Kobe had the responsibility of carrying a championship franchise on his back, so people were always watching his every move. I think if TMac had that kind of pressure, we'd be hearing everyday about how he has so much "drive and determination". We see and hear what they want us to hear. Kobe and TMac might have the same amount of drive. TMac just had more injuries and weaker teams for the most part.

Kobe even said himself that the toughest competition he had was Tracy.



You can't be THAT good without any effort. Hell, Lebron is arguably the greatest athlete on the planet right now, and he's been this freak of nature since he was drafted, but its not all talent. Gotta give some type of credit to these guys, they put in work.

 

Hard to say. He had the talent but he just didn't have that ridiculous drive that Kobe has.

No but he had the talent he just never had any help to help him reach the next level

not an excuse, lebron didnt have help KG didnt have help kobe didnt have help (after shaq left). you cant sit around waiting for help to come in the nba if you're a superstar its on you to put yourself in a position to succeed (going to a new team with help/teaming up with other good players/demanding that your team improve ect.) i guy who is wired like kobe (mad that he ONLY has 5 chips) is going to be more successful than someone wired like tmac (happy just to have played in the nba).

Lebron left to get help. KG was robbed of earlier chances at championships by being stuck on the same team for too long, and Kobe damn near left the Lakers until they brought in Pau.

Your argument makes no sense. Lebron didn't get a ring until he went to the Heat. KG didn't get a Ring until he went to Boston, and Kobe didn't start winning rings again until they brought him some real talent. Name one year the Lakers made a Championship run with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton?

But just because TMac didn't leave his team, that means he was sitting around waiting for change to happen? Fiddling his thumbs?

Some guys want to do the best they can to make their team better. You can't knock a guy for not jumping ship right away just cause his team is buns. Kobe ain't ever leave, even though he wanted to damn badly. His organization was just willing to put in the effort to keep him and surround him with as much help as they could. Thats something neither Cleveland nor Minnesota did, so their stars left.

Jordan never left, Magic never left, Bird never left... And their careers turned out pretty damn good. TMac TRIED to end up in better situations... Some **** just doesn't happen for everyone. Everyone can't be Champions at the same damn time. Someone has to be the guy who "could have done it"

 

[sea manup]

you cant get by just off talent in the nba, even if you're the most talented player in the league. some guys are lucky enough to be in a winning situation (bird, kobe, magic, mike) and others find their way into a winning situation (bron, kg, shaq). tmac was as skilled as any of these guys but he didnt put himself in position to win. not only that, he also didnt have it in him to be the leader of a team. people came to LA to have kobe/magic lead them to a championship. they came to boston to have bird lead them, to chicago to have mike lead them. there's a reason why no one came to tmac's teams, he wasnt a leader he had that nah someone else can lead im just here to play basketball mentality. putting tmac on the 09 magic and saying that they would win is a silly argument, if you put any top 3 player on a team good enough to make the nba finals chances are that they would win. i could say that if you added someone like tmac/kobe to the 90s knicks they would have beat the bulls, but that doesnt prove anything.

 

[Trillmatic90]

Trust me, I'm the last person to judge an athlete and say they don't have drive or don't work hard. Obviously you cant make it to the NBA if you don't have drive or work hard, let alone lead the league in scoring two times. I'm just saying that I don't feel his drive was on Kobe's level. That's not a knock on Tmac because God knows there's not many people with Kobe's kind of drive. Was that the reason Tmac never made it out the first round in his prime? Not at all. I think it's a combination of injuries, teammates, coaching, and better overall teams.

 

[PRIME]

you cant get by just off talent in the nba, even if you're the most talented player in the league. some guys are lucky enough to be in a winning situation (bird, kobe, magic, mike) and others find their way into a winning situation (bron, kg, shaq). tmac was as skilled as any of these guys but he didnt put himself in position to win. not only that, he also didnt have it in him to be the leader of a team. people came to LA to have kobe/magic lead them to a championship. they came to boston to have bird lead them, to chicago to have mike lead them. there's a reason why no one came to tmac's teams, he wasnt a leader he had that nah someone else can lead im just here to play basketball mentality. putting tmac on the 09 magic and saying that they would win is a silly argument, if you put any top 3 player on a team good enough to make the nba finals chances are that they would win. i could say that if you added someone like tmac/kobe to the 90s knicks they would have beat the bulls, but that doesnt prove anything.

You make it seem like just because dude was mad good at playing basketball and hard natural talent, he didn't have drive or determination to win or something.

Who said tmac was just getting by on talent? Back to back scoring champ? Multiple all star?

Shannon brown gets by on talent. TMac clearly had something besides talent that got him that far.

The fact that you called him a top 3 player says all I need. The dude was clearly on a level you don't want to give him some sort of credit for. Dudes don't get to top 3 on just skating by with their "talent".


The dude was just dealt a short hand. Life ain't fair for everyone. He's one of many great players who never made it to that "next" level because there was someone a little better.

 

[Coupé It]

T-Macs moves and overall game offensivly in his prime> LeBron's.

Too bad T-Mac never played that type of intense defense all the time tho. He really did carry those Magic teams, maybe he was just to winded. I blame Grant Hill's ankles and Duncan deciding to resign with the Spurs in 2000 instead of the Magic. Duncan and T-Mac would have been Kobe/Shaq east coast.

God damn shame what happened with T-Mac tho, never had a good supporting cast and those back and knee injuries really came back to hurt him.

Sometimes some stars just don't have the dominos fall into place like some others.

 

[mez 0ne]

the way TMac elevated his game come post season as well, guy was a monster and it looked so effortless for him on a nightly basis, such an under-rated passer as well.

Unfair to say he never had the drive, a person with his skill-set and talent takes hard work, some just "show" it more than others.

 

[$tacy]

Didnt tmac himself say he half assed alot. Im not sure but I remember hearing about him saying he didn't practice much n didn't put in 100% to refine his game outside of games

 

[notoriousmj23]

Didnt tmac himself say he half assed alot. Im not sure but I remember hearing about him saying he didn't practice much n didn't put in 100% to refine his game outside of games

Heard this before

 

[airjordan jb23]

loved watching this match up growing up

it's a shame though because t-mac never really had the supporting cast that kobe had. this isn't a knock on kobe because overall, i still had kobe > t-mac back in the day, especially with the drive kobe had. the thing is though, in orlando, t-mac was the only one carrying that team during those big years he had. with grant hill going down with the ankle injuries & the rumors of duncan joing that team falling through, it really was only t-mac carrying that squad. even with the great #'s he put up throughout the regular season, he was able to still elevate them come postseason... he just didn't have enough help to get over the hump.

then come time when he went to houston & finally did have a good team around him, injuries derailed them & they couldn't make that push.

between injuries & the lack of help over the years, we got robbed of what could've been an even better career for t-mac |I

 

[bulls90s]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[mjsaver]

The dude was just dealt a short hand. Life ain't fair for everyone. He's one of many great players who never made it to that "next" level because there was someone a little better.

Boom perfect way to put it right here T Mac was damn good but Kobe was just a little better that's. We can sit around for years with dozens of players and say if they played with so and so they would've done this and that but there's no way to ever know it's just pointless speculation.

If KG went to the Spurs or if Grant Hill ain't get hurt etc etc its too easy but it ain't worth the discussion just focus on what they accomplished and leave it at that.

 

[memphisboi55]

Tmac pre back injuries >

Better rebounder
Better passer
Better defender
Better scorer..more efficient