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The schadenfreude oddly feels great
**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by licensed to ball,
- Start date
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More material for Russ ball munchers to chew on:
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Please please don’t play well tonight vs Blazers
Otherwise rob might think: you know, we are good after all! No trade!!!
Otherwise rob might think: you know, we are good after all! No trade!!!
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Buy him out
Save Jeanie money
Make the team better
Even if it’s just to save $500K
Then sign Collison or Augustine
Save Jeanie money
Make the team better
Even if it’s just to save $500K
Then sign Collison or Augustine
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I heard Russ said “I wish I could help y’all out there but I wasn’t in the game”What y'all think Bron and AD thinking right here
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Lol I said the same thing like 5-6 months ago and was thrown to the pits of NT hell for it. Ahh the feeling of being right.
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This was the biggest blunder of LeGM’s career. In the past he made ultimately the right moves - teaming up with Bosh and Wade, signing Mike Miller Ray Allen etc, trading Wiggins for Love, adding JR Smith and Korver etc
Westbrook was a colossal mistake
Westbrook was a colossal mistake
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Inside locker room, Lakers players see and feel the same problems as everyone else and also want change: Sources
LeBron James finally gave in.
For months the Lakers star has been steadfast that his team’s woes could be pinned on injuries and inconsistent lineups, all while projecting confidence that a future existed for these Lakers in which they could still make a run at a championship.
Fifty-five games into the season, James acknowledged what anyone else watching this team can plainly see: That it’s not true.
Oh, he tried to dance around it. He invoked the search for consistent rotations. He talked about health. He pointed to the stability teams the league’s top teams have enjoyed while the Lakers have blindly fumbled for an identity.
But after nearly 12 minutes of questions on Tuesday night, James cracked and laid the facts bare.
He was asked what the Lakers 131-116 loss to the defending champion Milwaukee Bucks told him about the state of the Lakers, just 16 months removed from a title of their own.
“It tells me we ain’t on their level,” James said. “I mean, I could have told you that before the game.”
Less than 48 hours before the trade deadline, James was echoing a sentiment that has spread throughout an increasingly dispirited Lakers organization.
Sources told The Athletic that inside the locker room, players see and feel the same problems as everyone else, perhaps never more clearly than after a non-competitive loss to the champs. They understand as well as anyone that the personnel on this joyless 26-29 team simply isn’t working.
It’s a harsh reality for a team that last summer cashed in virtually all of its assets to acquire former Most Valuable Player Russell Westbrook and, in the name of winning the Lakers’ 18th NBA championship, assembled a team of past-their-prime role players. James made his feelings even more clear when he was asked if the Lakers still could reach the Bucks’ level.
“Do I think we can reach the level where Milwaukee is right now?” he repeated. “Um, no. Is that what you wanted to hear? No.”
James has been marvelous once again this season, defying conventional wisdom about what’s possible for a 37-year-old player. He scored 27 points against the Bucks and it could scarcely have mattered less.
Everything the Lakers did last summer, the overhaul of a contending roster, the addition of Westbrook, the strategy of a big three… It has all failed.
Earlier on Tuesday, head coach Frank Vogel, whose job has been closely scrutinized by Lakers decision-makers at key pressure points throughout the season, cautioned that he would not read too much into a single regular season game, but on an optimistic note added: “They are still the champs, so you do measure where you’re at as a team against that.”
Might want to rethink that.
Asked postgame about the comparison, Vogel chortled.
“It wasn’t good,” he said, adding, “Our energy as a group isn’t good right now.”
For the second straight game the Lakers started the night with an embarrassing defensive effort, giving up 78 points to the Bucks in the first half. Vogel, who utilized a new starting lineup for the 27th time this season, scrambled to make halftime adjustments. But where the Lakers were able to make a run and overcome a 21-point hole three nights earlier against the lowly Knicks, the Bucks are no such pushover.
The Lakers climbed within 10 points in the fourth quarter, prompting a done-for-the-night LeBron to leap to his feet and sprint into the game. It was another comeback staged without the aid of Westbrook, who watched the final 15 minutes of the game from the bench after a 4-for-11 shooting night in which he looked tentative, indecisive and overmatched.
The night ended with all members of the Lakers big three on the sideline and a playful Westbrook patting James on the head and tapping Davis as encouragement. The two stars barely acknowledged the third member of their trio.
“I told them I wish I could help them,” Westbrook said. “Unfortunately, I wasn’t in the game to be able to help them and that’s why I’ve, why I came here to be able to help them out. So, unfortunately I haven’t been able to do that for them, but that’s not my call.”
Westbrook was booed for the second game in a row, but appeared unperturbed by the slight from fellow Angelenos, saying, “It’s a sign of respect.”
But his recent benchings paint a clear picture of the Lakers’ issues, and underscore just how miserable this season has become and how few options remain. It is impossible for anyone, including many within the organization, to see a path back to contention without major changes. The Lakers would almost certainly be in for a major shakeup prior to Thursday’s deadline if not for the fact that their most tradeable players — Kendrick Nunn and Talen Horton-Tucker — are not seen as attractive targets by other teams and the only first round pick they have to trade can’t be used until 2027.
The Lakers have backed themselves into a corner, most urgently with Westbrook. The trade — championed, if not orchestrated, by James and Davis — can already be counted among the worst management decisions in NBA history.
Sources have indicated that the Lakers no longer believe they can win at a high level with Westbrook alongside James and Davis, but prior to Tuesday the line of thinking was that the Lakers would be unwilling to wave the white flag and admit their summer blockbuster was a failure. Instead, they would prefer to wait until the offseason, when they could also include a 2029 pick in a potential deal for another max-contract player looking for a new home.
But the tone after Tuesday’s loss suggested the Lakers are in need of more immediate action. Could things be so dire that the Lakers would be better off including that ’27 pick in a swap now — say for Houston’s John Wall? — even if it means a lesser return? Desperation got the Lakers into this mess and it might take desperation to get them out.
Either way, whether it is by Thursday’s deadline or in the summer, the Lakers know they need to find their way out of the Russell Westbrook business.
One Lakers staffer who had reservations about the trade when it was made in July recently told The Athletic, “I didn’t think it would be this bad.”
The frustrating thing is that the circumstances didn’t have to be this dire.
This is not only a team that is barely 16 months removed from winning a title, but also one that less than a year ago was chasing the top seed in the Western Conference before Hawks forward Solomon Hill fell into James’ leg. The resulting high ankle sprain ended James’ MVP candidacy and forced him to miss 20 games. But even after having to navigate the play-in, the Lakers took a 2-1 lead against eventual conference-champion Phoenix despite, as James said on Tuesday, “We weren’t healthy for that series.” That moment stalled out , of course, when Davis strained his groin in Game 4, but that shows just how close the margins were for the Lakers a year ago.
This season? What was a game of inches is now a game of miles.
Pelinka discarded the remaining core of the title team for Westbrook — leaving almost no escape routes — opted not to counter Chicago’s offer for Alex Caruso and declined to engage with the oft-maligned point guard Dennis Schröder, who, according to league sources, was up for returning to the Lakers as Westbrook’s backup before eventually signing with Boston for the mid-level exception with Boston. (The deal the Lakers gave to Kendrick Nunn, who has not yet played this season due to a bone bruise in his right knee.)
The albatross of Westbrook’s contract left the Lakers with few options other than to scour free agency for minimum contract players like Carmelo Anthony and Malik Monk, who were hits, and Kent Bazemore, Trevor Ariza, DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard, who have… not been.
Along the way, the Lakers mined relative gems like Avery Bradley, Austin Reaves and Stanley Johnson. But those pebbles aren’t tipping the scales against a boulder-like Westbrook.
Nobody expects Pelinka to untangle all of that before Thursday’s deadline and he is an uncomfortable spot. By now, it should be his job that is drawing scrutiny. But there is a risk of being too aggressive and wasting assets to salvage a season that can’t be saved. You can’t make a mistake like trading Ivica Zubac for Mike Muscala, as Pelinka and Magic Johnson did in 2019.
In the end, Pelinka may not have the flexibility to do anything to address the growing dissatisfaction with the course of this season — no matter how much pressure he feels, and should feel, to fix the team he assembled.
The Lakers have 27 games left, come what may.
“I don’t think we’ve given up on this,” said Davis. “I know we haven’t. … We can turn this around, but it’s going to take a lot of work.
“To do it, it’s going to take us as a team collectively to do so. We’ve got to buy in. We’ve just got to (have) everyone go out there and play for each other. Play hard. Play selfless. And try to turn this around before it gets really bad.”
But Davis was swimming upstream against the current of James’ words.
Before it gets really bad?
James told the truth: It already is.
LeBron James finally gave in.
For months the Lakers star has been steadfast that his team’s woes could be pinned on injuries and inconsistent lineups, all while projecting confidence that a future existed for these Lakers in which they could still make a run at a championship.
Fifty-five games into the season, James acknowledged what anyone else watching this team can plainly see: That it’s not true.
Oh, he tried to dance around it. He invoked the search for consistent rotations. He talked about health. He pointed to the stability teams the league’s top teams have enjoyed while the Lakers have blindly fumbled for an identity.
But after nearly 12 minutes of questions on Tuesday night, James cracked and laid the facts bare.
He was asked what the Lakers 131-116 loss to the defending champion Milwaukee Bucks told him about the state of the Lakers, just 16 months removed from a title of their own.
“It tells me we ain’t on their level,” James said. “I mean, I could have told you that before the game.”
Less than 48 hours before the trade deadline, James was echoing a sentiment that has spread throughout an increasingly dispirited Lakers organization.
Sources told The Athletic that inside the locker room, players see and feel the same problems as everyone else, perhaps never more clearly than after a non-competitive loss to the champs. They understand as well as anyone that the personnel on this joyless 26-29 team simply isn’t working.
It’s a harsh reality for a team that last summer cashed in virtually all of its assets to acquire former Most Valuable Player Russell Westbrook and, in the name of winning the Lakers’ 18th NBA championship, assembled a team of past-their-prime role players. James made his feelings even more clear when he was asked if the Lakers still could reach the Bucks’ level.
“Do I think we can reach the level where Milwaukee is right now?” he repeated. “Um, no. Is that what you wanted to hear? No.”
James has been marvelous once again this season, defying conventional wisdom about what’s possible for a 37-year-old player. He scored 27 points against the Bucks and it could scarcely have mattered less.
Everything the Lakers did last summer, the overhaul of a contending roster, the addition of Westbrook, the strategy of a big three… It has all failed.
Earlier on Tuesday, head coach Frank Vogel, whose job has been closely scrutinized by Lakers decision-makers at key pressure points throughout the season, cautioned that he would not read too much into a single regular season game, but on an optimistic note added: “They are still the champs, so you do measure where you’re at as a team against that.”
Might want to rethink that.
Asked postgame about the comparison, Vogel chortled.
“It wasn’t good,” he said, adding, “Our energy as a group isn’t good right now.”
For the second straight game the Lakers started the night with an embarrassing defensive effort, giving up 78 points to the Bucks in the first half. Vogel, who utilized a new starting lineup for the 27th time this season, scrambled to make halftime adjustments. But where the Lakers were able to make a run and overcome a 21-point hole three nights earlier against the lowly Knicks, the Bucks are no such pushover.
The Lakers climbed within 10 points in the fourth quarter, prompting a done-for-the-night LeBron to leap to his feet and sprint into the game. It was another comeback staged without the aid of Westbrook, who watched the final 15 minutes of the game from the bench after a 4-for-11 shooting night in which he looked tentative, indecisive and overmatched.
The night ended with all members of the Lakers big three on the sideline and a playful Westbrook patting James on the head and tapping Davis as encouragement. The two stars barely acknowledged the third member of their trio.
“I told them I wish I could help them,” Westbrook said. “Unfortunately, I wasn’t in the game to be able to help them and that’s why I’ve, why I came here to be able to help them out. So, unfortunately I haven’t been able to do that for them, but that’s not my call.”
Westbrook was booed for the second game in a row, but appeared unperturbed by the slight from fellow Angelenos, saying, “It’s a sign of respect.”
But his recent benchings paint a clear picture of the Lakers’ issues, and underscore just how miserable this season has become and how few options remain. It is impossible for anyone, including many within the organization, to see a path back to contention without major changes. The Lakers would almost certainly be in for a major shakeup prior to Thursday’s deadline if not for the fact that their most tradeable players — Kendrick Nunn and Talen Horton-Tucker — are not seen as attractive targets by other teams and the only first round pick they have to trade can’t be used until 2027.
The Lakers have backed themselves into a corner, most urgently with Westbrook. The trade — championed, if not orchestrated, by James and Davis — can already be counted among the worst management decisions in NBA history.
Sources have indicated that the Lakers no longer believe they can win at a high level with Westbrook alongside James and Davis, but prior to Tuesday the line of thinking was that the Lakers would be unwilling to wave the white flag and admit their summer blockbuster was a failure. Instead, they would prefer to wait until the offseason, when they could also include a 2029 pick in a potential deal for another max-contract player looking for a new home.
But the tone after Tuesday’s loss suggested the Lakers are in need of more immediate action. Could things be so dire that the Lakers would be better off including that ’27 pick in a swap now — say for Houston’s John Wall? — even if it means a lesser return? Desperation got the Lakers into this mess and it might take desperation to get them out.
Either way, whether it is by Thursday’s deadline or in the summer, the Lakers know they need to find their way out of the Russell Westbrook business.
One Lakers staffer who had reservations about the trade when it was made in July recently told The Athletic, “I didn’t think it would be this bad.”
The frustrating thing is that the circumstances didn’t have to be this dire.
This is not only a team that is barely 16 months removed from winning a title, but also one that less than a year ago was chasing the top seed in the Western Conference before Hawks forward Solomon Hill fell into James’ leg. The resulting high ankle sprain ended James’ MVP candidacy and forced him to miss 20 games. But even after having to navigate the play-in, the Lakers took a 2-1 lead against eventual conference-champion Phoenix despite, as James said on Tuesday, “We weren’t healthy for that series.” That moment stalled out , of course, when Davis strained his groin in Game 4, but that shows just how close the margins were for the Lakers a year ago.
This season? What was a game of inches is now a game of miles.
Pelinka discarded the remaining core of the title team for Westbrook — leaving almost no escape routes — opted not to counter Chicago’s offer for Alex Caruso and declined to engage with the oft-maligned point guard Dennis Schröder, who, according to league sources, was up for returning to the Lakers as Westbrook’s backup before eventually signing with Boston for the mid-level exception with Boston. (The deal the Lakers gave to Kendrick Nunn, who has not yet played this season due to a bone bruise in his right knee.)
The albatross of Westbrook’s contract left the Lakers with few options other than to scour free agency for minimum contract players like Carmelo Anthony and Malik Monk, who were hits, and Kent Bazemore, Trevor Ariza, DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard, who have… not been.
Along the way, the Lakers mined relative gems like Avery Bradley, Austin Reaves and Stanley Johnson. But those pebbles aren’t tipping the scales against a boulder-like Westbrook.
Nobody expects Pelinka to untangle all of that before Thursday’s deadline and he is an uncomfortable spot. By now, it should be his job that is drawing scrutiny. But there is a risk of being too aggressive and wasting assets to salvage a season that can’t be saved. You can’t make a mistake like trading Ivica Zubac for Mike Muscala, as Pelinka and Magic Johnson did in 2019.
In the end, Pelinka may not have the flexibility to do anything to address the growing dissatisfaction with the course of this season — no matter how much pressure he feels, and should feel, to fix the team he assembled.
The Lakers have 27 games left, come what may.
“I don’t think we’ve given up on this,” said Davis. “I know we haven’t. … We can turn this around, but it’s going to take a lot of work.
“To do it, it’s going to take us as a team collectively to do so. We’ve got to buy in. We’ve just got to (have) everyone go out there and play for each other. Play hard. Play selfless. And try to turn this around before it gets really bad.”
But Davis was swimming upstream against the current of James’ words.
Before it gets really bad?
James told the truth: It already is.
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Sideline Westbrook
Trade THT for Josh Richardson
Sign Gary Harris in the buy-out market
Flourish
AD, Bron, Johnson, Richardson, Monk, Dwight, Melo, Harris, Reaves
Trade THT for Josh Richardson
Sign Gary Harris in the buy-out market
Flourish
AD, Bron, Johnson, Richardson, Monk, Dwight, Melo, Harris, Reaves
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This would be a good outcome for us. Richardson helps on defense and Gary Harris can be a bucket. Small but helpful moves.
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Said it before and I’ll say it again
It’s too bad of all the players to be out for weeks, Westbrook is the only one that hasn’t missed time. This way we can truly see how well we thrive without him. Not wishing injury but a week or two off to rest a sore toe or something would do him and the team wonders. Just saying
It’s too bad of all the players to be out for weeks, Westbrook is the only one that hasn’t missed time. This way we can truly see how well we thrive without him. Not wishing injury but a week or two off to rest a sore toe or something would do him and the team wonders. Just saying
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to me this season is a wrap. We all know it. There is no move that can be made to save us. We are not one move away from Suns/Warriors/Bucks level.
Probably smarter to keep Westbrook and trade him in the summer. Can attach more picks to him at that time and hopefully get a decent return.
I was rooting for the Brodie, the home town kid, but he can’t play winning basketball. The only way russ can excel is as the primary ball handler. It’s crazy that everyone saw this but the Lakers. How did the entire fan base know this wouldn’t work out but our dumb *** management / leaders thought they knew better
Probably smarter to keep Westbrook and trade him in the summer. Can attach more picks to him at that time and hopefully get a decent return.
I was rooting for the Brodie, the home town kid, but he can’t play winning basketball. The only way russ can excel is as the primary ball handler. It’s crazy that everyone saw this but the Lakers. How did the entire fan base know this wouldn’t work out but our dumb *** management / leaders thought they knew better
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Kind of sucks that russ’ contract didn’t end this summer.
The blazers gave away, yes gave away, Norman powell and CJ mcollum for 2 expiring contracts, 1 second rounder and 1 future first rounder.
They make 51 mill together. That woulda been perfect for Russ’ 47 mill expiring and the 2027 first. 1 year too early.
The blazers gave away, yes gave away, Norman powell and CJ mcollum for 2 expiring contracts, 1 second rounder and 1 future first rounder.
They make 51 mill together. That woulda been perfect for Russ’ 47 mill expiring and the 2027 first. 1 year too early.
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They only wanted Russ so he could allow Bron to somewhat coast during the season. A do all type player with high energy.
Ad injury + Russ not playing well enough derailed the plans.
Everything else is just noise honestly...
Ad injury + Russ not playing well enough derailed the plans.
Everything else is just noise honestly...
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to me this season is a wrap. We all know it. There is no move that can be made to save us. We are not one move away from Suns/Warriors/Bucks level.
Probably smarter to keep Westbrook and trade him in the summer. Can attach more picks to him at that time and hopefully get a decent return.
I was rooting for the Brodie, the home town kid, but he can’t play winning basketball. The only way russ can excel is as the primary ball handler. It’s crazy that everyone saw this but the Lakers. How did the entire fan base know this wouldn’t work out but our dumb *** management / leaders thought they knew better
Exactly. So my question is why trade someone like THT for a 2 month rental? Even if THT has a 5% chance and developing into who we hoped. Let’s take that chance because we won’t win **** this season anyways
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Because THT makes no sense. Can't shoot or defend consistently.
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I’m not necessarily riding with THT I’m just saying he hasn’t been in position to succeed and we’re selling him at his lowest value. For what? Josh Richardson? He doesn’t move the needle.
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I'll gladly take Richardson. He plays defense. At this stage, THT doesn't do anything for us.
Rockabilly Zombie
formerly sithlord22
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I just want to see something happen. This roster aint it.
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I’m willing to take Wall now, sucks this whole trading for Westbrook ending up like this. Almost like the whole Dwight saga. Def don’t want to give up a pick tho just to dump Westbrook.
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If that happens, we will definitely have to give up a pick. We are more desperate than Houston.
