|| LocK Dis Up ||

[had pants]

 

[darthska]

[quote name="franc"]randle is inconsistent part of the process though. he will get there.[/quote]That I put squarely on coaching.

Well, let me back up. Randle is inconsistent on a game-to-game basis, and that I put in the coach. Players who are inconsistent within the game, that's on them. But Randle is inconsistent from one game to another, and I think that's from not being used consistently.

 

[pmatic]

I can't help but think of how difficult it's going to be building around the three youngsters moving forward.

 

[MVP]

I can't help but think of how difficult it's going to be building around the three youngsters moving forward.

It's going to be a tall task to say the least. I don't think any of them project to be all star caliber players which you have to have at least 1 of or you're going to be in Jazz territory at best.

That's why honestly it's of upmost importance that we keep this pick and get a little luck to get #1 and Simmons. I wouldn't be opposed to Ingram either but he's so raw and physically is just nowhere near NBA level but he does have the toolset.

And we have to hit on at least 2 vets in free agency this summer, no other way around it.

 

[pmatic]

View media item 1843720
It would be nice to have a semblance of defense, competitiveness and leadership. I say this knowing both are not good fits next to the youngsters and are entering washed up territory. Wouldn't have to spend more than $24-28M per year combined for the two of them, I think.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I don't think any of them project to be all star caliber players

MambaMVP seal of approval

 

[essential1]

I can't help but think of how difficult it's going to be building around the three youngsters moving forward.

I don't think it's any more difficult to build around them than any of the other young teams currently.

As for none of them being All-Stars, I think Russell and Randle most certainly can be legitimate perennial All-Stars in the future. It's slightly more difficult now due to the way voting is set up, but nonetheless All-Star Caliber.


Russell is 12/4/3. His per 36 numbers as a teen are only replicated by him & LeBron. When you extrapolate it out to 20 years old you get LeBron, CP3, Magic, Lamar Odom. His shooting has improved as the season goes on. Has great court vision. One of the better PG rebounders in the league already. There's more turnovers from him coming from guys not expecting a pass, or can't get their hands on a pass that should be caught than there is from bad passes, lapse of judgement, and rookie mistakes. His on-ball defense is really good. He also has good measurables that make it even easier on defense. Also plays for a coach who is screwing around with him every day, does not try to put him in more pick & rolls. Despite it being smart offense for a guy like him. Also, Byron is content letting the ball stick to everybody for a lot of the shot clock as opposed to moving the ball around.

Where Russell needs improvement is getting to the hoop. P&R will help that. Also when he does get in P&R, he is often afraid to attack, that comes with feel for the game, and being able to read when to pull up on a shot, when to float it, and when to slow play it keeping the defender on your hip to draw more fouls. Knowing when to attack is going to come with getting the feel as a scorer. He has the feel as a passer, because that's what he is. When he gets comfortable, and isn't worrying about simple mistakes getting him pulled from the game, he'll figure out when to attack more. The not worrying about getting pulled has been improving as the season goes on. When he learns when to attack, he'll get to the line slightly more. His off-ball defense is pretty bad, but when you look across the spectrum of the team, there's a lot of mush going on in terms of defense. He falls asleep off the ball, and that has to be corrected in practice. The amount of **** we get on defense, Byron has part of the blame here. Scheme defenses are a coach's doing. And if guys are falling asleep off the ball, trouble switching. That's on the coach to correct bad habits. When a guy is on-ball and gets flat out beat, that's the player. Why I think we need Thibs as our next coach is to correct these bad habits they have.


Randle is one of the best rebounders in the league already. Plays average on ball. Can keep guys from getting straight to the paint, and forcing longer shots. Traditional 4s can't back him down. Speed 4s who can shoot are a trouble for him. Off-ball he's really bad. And he lacks defensive fundamentals, relies strictly on his strength and surprising speed/agility for a 6'9" guy to get ahead. Again, Thibs is a guy who will help him.

Randle's biggest deficiencies offensively are inability to shoot the mid-range / long 2s. And his lack of a right hand around the hoop. Also trouble dealing with length. Setting good screens and rolling off the screen. As most of Basketball Twitter has already addressed what is wrong with Randle can be taught. And it doesn't all have to be fixed in 1 year. First thing he has to do, is the shot in the offseason. The shot will force bigger 4s to play up on him, where he can use his speed/athleticism to blow past. And will give him easy points when a guy sags off. He doesn't have to be Tim Duncan or KG from midrange. He just has to be average to just slight above average from there. That's enough to keep the defender honest, and take the easy points when they give it to him. After that fixing the inability to use the Right Hand will be the last piece that turns him from a capable 15 ppg guy to a capable 20ppg guy. Again, it would be wonderful if he became great at using the right, but all he needs is to able to use it on occasion.

Byron moving him to the bench was just a nonsense move, and since then he's looked like crap. But doesn't negate there has been enough games of him as a starter, where he looks like he has something.


There's plenty to see for them to improve, but there's also a lot more to see that shows they can be really good to great players. Gotta remember they are only 60 games in the NBA combined between the two.

 

[essential1]

To show that there is hope for Russell & Randle.. Despite having deficiencies, glaring and minor and ways to go to being who they are/will be.



Russell per 36: 15.4 / 5.5 / 4.3. There's only been two guys to do that at 18 or 19 years old. LeBron James & D'Angelo Russell. If you knock it down to 15/5/4, still on LeBron & Russell.


Randle per 36: 15.1 / 12.4 / 2.2. Expanded this out for guys 18, 19, 20 & 21. Only 2 guys have done it Shaquille O'Neal & Julius Randle. If you knock it down to 15/12/2, it makes it 3, Shaq, Blake Griffin & Randle.



That's not to say they will be all-time greats, or hall of famers, or anything. But just to show as Rookies (Randle is a rookie to me). It is just to show they have been fine despite having deficiencies. As they progress, they will get better, and the hope is they are able to limit their deficiencies as much as possible. Same as every rookie.

 

[licensed to ball]

 

[CP1708]

DLo, Handle, Clarkson, Nance, add an Ingram and we have 50+ mil, I'm not worried at all.

Most important part would be coach. Look what Brad Stevens is doing, find a guy in that mold.

I don't know if Luke is that guy, but I don't know that he isn't, either. Can he teach younger guys would be the key question.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

DLo, Handle, Clarkson, Nance, add an Ingram and we have 50+ mil, I'm not worried at all.

Most important part would be coach. Look what Brad Stevens is doing, find a guy in that mold.

I don't know if Luke is that guy, but I don't know that he isn't, either. Can he teach younger guys would be the key question.

In the preview part of the forum it looks like you're about to say "and we have 50+ wins" 

If Mitch can flip the first rounder for an established guy (have no idea who this could be) that would be an option too. The difference in excitement between Simmons and Ingram is wide to me

 

[CP1708]

I think Ingram fits well.

DLo 20
Clarkson 22
Ingram 19
Randle 21

As our core the next few years, all growing together, 50 mil to supplement with vets, as they become 23-24-25 we would be in great shape for a long while.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

If you guys had the chance to draft Simmons, would you do it? If they get that opportunity I would start to accept the possibility of trading Randle. That is if you don't think Simmons can play the 3 

Ingram on paper fits better I just don't know if out of those 4 guys they have someone who will stir the drink. They're all young and talented no doubt

 

[moonman818]

If you guys had the chance to draft Simmons, would you do it? If they get that opportunity I would start to accept the possibility of trading Randle. That is if you don't think Simmons can play the 3 

Ingram on paper fits better I just don't know if out of those 4 guys they have someone who will stir the drink. They're all young and talented no doubt

I wouldn't trade him because he could be our Taj Gibson off the bench.

Julius is basically still a rookie and there aren't too many people in the league with his size and skill set.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

I haven't lost hope for Randle even though he receives a lot of criticism. He is in his rookie year and having to deal with the Kobe situation. The whole team is saddled with it so I am not as critical on Randle and Russell 

 

[pmatic]

I'm on the Ingram bandwagon, but they should draft Simmons if possible.

 

[CP1708]

I never operate on best case. If we get #1, sure get Simmons. Just like I hoped for Towns last year, but wasn't gonna cry over DLo, Jah, Winslow, etc.

If Brandon Ingram is my second option, I'll be totally fine. Cuz the other option is no pick at all. I'll take Ingram and run.


Also, in 96 our young core was NVE, Eddie, Peeler, and Lynch. Ceballos and Divac were our vets.

That attracted Shaq, then West landed Kobe/Fisher.

These young guys can be better than Lynch, Eddie, Peeler, NVE. And 50 mil should be able to bring some help in. Then you just hope either a Shaq or Pau type scenario works out to put you over the top.


And like GS, they pulled Steph, Klay, Draymond, Ezeli, and Barnes via draft. They sucked for years while they developed. Signed Iggy. Traded for Bogut. FA scraps in Barbosa and Livingston.

They even fired a coach to get to the next level.

And no one, nooooooo one, saw Steph, Klay, Draymond becoming who they are today.

Draft, AND develop. Can't just Draft and be done. Develop the core, teach the game, let them learn and grow.

 

[pmatic]

Really curious what happens if they were to get #3. No clear-cut option really in the draft after Simmons and Ingram.

 

[CP1708]

BPA. Someone will emerge. I'd hope for SF, the kid from Cal? Maybe a Euro.

 

[lovehateself]

Really curious what happens if they were to get #3. No clear-cut option really in the draft after Simmons and Ingram.

Or ...trade the pick for an established player ? K Love all over again ? Trade down and pick up another asset?

 

[MVP]

MambaMVP seal of approval

You continue to address me Clipper Darrell why?

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

You continue to address me Clipper Darrell why?

Is this not a message board?

 

[pmatic]

D'Antoni the God returns tonight.

 

[frink85]

Anyone got any info on the shirts they wore on the bench last night? Been searching nba store, lakers store, Google etc nothing coming up only the jerseys, or the shirt for another team. I need one in my life. Thanks.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Hire back D'Antoni.