- Oct 15, 2006
- 1,819
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Lock This Thread. (another subject derailed)
- Thread in 'Sneaker Reviews' Thread starter Started by clutchshooter,
- Start date
- Oct 26, 2007
- 934
- 14
^^ Seconded to all. Why lock this thread? It's the best one on this board. There's no flaming or anything like it, just honest discussion and divergence of opinions, discussed maturely.
- Jan 15, 2005
- 1,070
- 12
Damn, this thread really did veer off, but I think in a good way. I didn't bother to check it after reading the first post, no offense.
I think all of the high-end tech. stuff is a good thing in some ways, if that stuff didn't exist, then we wouldn't know what footwear is really capable of becoming. Not saying it's the best implementation and all that, but I'm sure for some people it is better than shoes based on just foam, with no Air or Adiprene, etc. It's about having as many choices as possible, if it's something that I'm paying for, I want to see as many options as I can.
And marketing is nothing new, the main reason people want Jordans, Lebrons, Kobes, etc. is because those guys are wearing it and playing in it. Performance is nowhere near as good as the price justifies, but nothing gets reactions from friends, players, family, etc. than those brand new Jordans or Lebrons. It's just as much of a fashion thing as it is performance, if not more so. Plenty of people rock bball shoes for casual purposes (I do), but I'll be the first to admit that they can get uncomfortable as hell, compared to my Frees, 360's, or Asics Kinsei.
Big companies put out sub-par products all the time. I was hugely disappointed with the Lebron IV's and there are only a handful of Jordans I can actually play ball in. I've had bad experiences with the traction on some Adidas shoes, but just like anyone else they make good stuff as well.
I think all of the high-end tech. stuff is a good thing in some ways, if that stuff didn't exist, then we wouldn't know what footwear is really capable of becoming. Not saying it's the best implementation and all that, but I'm sure for some people it is better than shoes based on just foam, with no Air or Adiprene, etc. It's about having as many choices as possible, if it's something that I'm paying for, I want to see as many options as I can.
And marketing is nothing new, the main reason people want Jordans, Lebrons, Kobes, etc. is because those guys are wearing it and playing in it. Performance is nowhere near as good as the price justifies, but nothing gets reactions from friends, players, family, etc. than those brand new Jordans or Lebrons. It's just as much of a fashion thing as it is performance, if not more so. Plenty of people rock bball shoes for casual purposes (I do), but I'll be the first to admit that they can get uncomfortable as hell, compared to my Frees, 360's, or Asics Kinsei.
Big companies put out sub-par products all the time. I was hugely disappointed with the Lebron IV's and there are only a handful of Jordans I can actually play ball in. I've had bad experiences with the traction on some Adidas shoes, but just like anyone else they make good stuff as well.
- Apr 30, 2007
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I agree DeezyVSOP, I actually like high end tech, ala the GCS in Adidas, and the VCIII's featuring the compressed columns on the medial side of the shoe, but I don't consider Zoom Air to be high end "tech".
~ The aforementioned shoes have a firm, supportive cushioning set up, as Zoom can feel quite mushy. There is a reason that when someone puts on a firm shoe, that the foot itself feels more stable, allowing more leverage, as if you are indeed moving around barefoot.
Shoes such as Chucks, Running flats and then High Jumping shoes, are minimalist shoes. They allow the foot to feel the firmness of the playing/running surfaces. When the foot is prepared on liftoff/Explosion, they respond differently upon descent. If landing on someones foot, you may be better prepared to catch yourself due to that feel, preventing ankle inversion/eversion, and then injuries at the knee.
With the Chucks also being light as all hell, I know that this is why I was able to dunk while standing under the rim, even during rehab.
Whenever I wear shoes featuring Zoom Air, I swear, and this isn't a slight against Nike, I first get that numbness of the foot, and then ache of the knees, and tendonitis always follows.
I never get this with any other cushioning setup.
BASKETBALL IS A BROTHERHOOD
"but alot of the things Kobe does I would never have done."
MJ in GQ
~ The aforementioned shoes have a firm, supportive cushioning set up, as Zoom can feel quite mushy. There is a reason that when someone puts on a firm shoe, that the foot itself feels more stable, allowing more leverage, as if you are indeed moving around barefoot.
Shoes such as Chucks, Running flats and then High Jumping shoes, are minimalist shoes. They allow the foot to feel the firmness of the playing/running surfaces. When the foot is prepared on liftoff/Explosion, they respond differently upon descent. If landing on someones foot, you may be better prepared to catch yourself due to that feel, preventing ankle inversion/eversion, and then injuries at the knee.
With the Chucks also being light as all hell, I know that this is why I was able to dunk while standing under the rim, even during rehab.
Whenever I wear shoes featuring Zoom Air, I swear, and this isn't a slight against Nike, I first get that numbness of the foot, and then ache of the knees, and tendonitis always follows.
I never get this with any other cushioning setup.
BASKETBALL IS A BROTHERHOOD
"but alot of the things Kobe does I would never have done."
MJ in GQ
- Oct 15, 2006
- 1,819
- 11
and i have the opposite problem - with tech-based shoes. i have a rotation of shoes that i go through, so i rarely wear the same pair twice in a row, or even within the same week or so (i ball about 4-5 days a week). and it always feels to me, the first time i wear a shox shoe after not having worn shox for a while, that the first half hour or so is really painful, until somehow the shox and my feet adjust to each other. it might be a function of my weight changing, or perhaps playing on a different surface - from hardwood to smooth concrete to asphalt and back again, but the initial (and the post-game) feeling usually is really painful on the soles of my feet and on my knees.
however, the reason i stick to it is that shox provides a real stable base for me - like prof. k said when he was reviewing shoes based on merit and not yet writing puff pieces on flagship footwear - the shox VC 2, especially, are really great as a defensive player's shoe. i can cut, change direction, spin, move around in any direction, and have a stable base to land on. thankfully i've never been hit that hard in midair wearing those, because i can see how that would work against you if you landed on the edge (likely tipping over and resulting in a sure ankle sprain), but yeah, i guess in this case i persevere through the initial pain, and it eventually goes away (although it never did with the BB4, 'causing me to ditch that shoe real quick).
usually, no matter what the cushioning - zoom, max, shox or whatever, i prefer full-length, but the shox stunner works real well with it's zoom/shox combo, as does the penny 4 with it's zoom/max. i guess in the forefoot, i need agility, while my heel likes cushioning. so yeah, technology isn't all bad. i've had great games in adidas promodel 2Gs, and AND1 Stephon Marbury 1s (not to be confused with the Starburys) - which are basically just foam/eva based shoes. but the thing with those is after a while, once the foam breaks down, i can literally feel the texture of the asphalt under my feet, and when landings start to hurt, i tend to ditch them for the next pair, at least until sentimentality leads me to pull them out again every so often to play until the traction wears down and they're really done.
however, the reason i stick to it is that shox provides a real stable base for me - like prof. k said when he was reviewing shoes based on merit and not yet writing puff pieces on flagship footwear - the shox VC 2, especially, are really great as a defensive player's shoe. i can cut, change direction, spin, move around in any direction, and have a stable base to land on. thankfully i've never been hit that hard in midair wearing those, because i can see how that would work against you if you landed on the edge (likely tipping over and resulting in a sure ankle sprain), but yeah, i guess in this case i persevere through the initial pain, and it eventually goes away (although it never did with the BB4, 'causing me to ditch that shoe real quick).
usually, no matter what the cushioning - zoom, max, shox or whatever, i prefer full-length, but the shox stunner works real well with it's zoom/shox combo, as does the penny 4 with it's zoom/max. i guess in the forefoot, i need agility, while my heel likes cushioning. so yeah, technology isn't all bad. i've had great games in adidas promodel 2Gs, and AND1 Stephon Marbury 1s (not to be confused with the Starburys) - which are basically just foam/eva based shoes. but the thing with those is after a while, once the foam breaks down, i can literally feel the texture of the asphalt under my feet, and when landings start to hurt, i tend to ditch them for the next pair, at least until sentimentality leads me to pull them out again every so often to play until the traction wears down and they're really done.
..with so much personality,
what do you want from me?
i could be by myself and enjoy the company..
but i'd ratherher
what do you want from me?
i could be by myself and enjoy the company..
but i'd ratherher
- Apr 30, 2007
- 146
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Ohhhh the BB4 has a whole host of issues, as does all of the shoes that feature the vaunted MONKEY PAW. But as of late, I have developed a deep affinity for the BB4, one that is not performance related.
The Monkey Paw is another example of Nike attempting to do too much, adding further risk of injury. The BB4 was so restrictive, I had to take a hammer to the whole shoe in order to loosen it up for playing, with a few more trips into a washing machine. By then the monkey paw and everything else had loosened up, but it took too much of an effort to make the shoe comfortable.
I hate the "you have to break it in", excuse, as I don't like to think about what is on my feet while balling.
The VC III was a major improvement over the II in regard to fit, comfort and safety, but not in quality. Inside, your foot feels solid like you are standing on the ground/court, not a pillow. Also, the Gil Zero's and the VC III's are much more forgiving to the foot than the VCII's.
BASKETBALL IS A BROTHERHOOD
"but alot of the things Kobe does I would never have done."
MJ in GQ
The Monkey Paw is another example of Nike attempting to do too much, adding further risk of injury. The BB4 was so restrictive, I had to take a hammer to the whole shoe in order to loosen it up for playing, with a few more trips into a washing machine. By then the monkey paw and everything else had loosened up, but it took too much of an effort to make the shoe comfortable.
I hate the "you have to break it in", excuse, as I don't like to think about what is on my feet while balling.
The VC III was a major improvement over the II in regard to fit, comfort and safety, but not in quality. Inside, your foot feels solid like you are standing on the ground/court, not a pillow. Also, the Gil Zero's and the VC III's are much more forgiving to the foot than the VCII's.
BASKETBALL IS A BROTHERHOOD
"but alot of the things Kobe does I would never have done."
MJ in GQ
- Oct 15, 2006
- 1,819
- 11
from the dallas news today..
- Jan 15, 2005
- 1,070
- 12
Yeah, I think Nike can do too much in terms of the things employed in their shoes. There are numerous examples of shoes they put out that were way more hypethan substance. But I also feel like some of their releases are things no other company could put out. And yeah, that's probably true for any othercompany, lol.
And I agree that some Zoom based shoes can feel extremely squishy, and they can make my feet start to ache after some time. Lebron II's are a perfectexample of this for me. I only like shoes like the Lebron II's for casual type games, not games where I have to be on point and focused.
But I think some forms of Zoom, like in the Zoom Drive or 2K4, can be extremely firm - really just the opposite of that squishy feeling I just described. Ilike Zoom, so I'll be biased towards a lot of shoes using Zoom. But I definitely prefer the lower-profile and firmer bags than the large volume, soft ones.
And comfort is something that's really becoming a factor to me, because I feel like shoes should feel good as soon as you try them on. That"break-in" stuff I can understand for shoes like Foams or shoes with full-grain leather uppers, but I've worn my KBII's for more than enoughtimes and they're still causing discomfort at my ankles. That's a crappy feature for some pricy bball shoes, when there are shoes retailing for a lotless that are just plush when you wear them.
And I agree that some Zoom based shoes can feel extremely squishy, and they can make my feet start to ache after some time. Lebron II's are a perfectexample of this for me. I only like shoes like the Lebron II's for casual type games, not games where I have to be on point and focused.
But I think some forms of Zoom, like in the Zoom Drive or 2K4, can be extremely firm - really just the opposite of that squishy feeling I just described. Ilike Zoom, so I'll be biased towards a lot of shoes using Zoom. But I definitely prefer the lower-profile and firmer bags than the large volume, soft ones.
And comfort is something that's really becoming a factor to me, because I feel like shoes should feel good as soon as you try them on. That"break-in" stuff I can understand for shoes like Foams or shoes with full-grain leather uppers, but I've worn my KBII's for more than enoughtimes and they're still causing discomfort at my ankles. That's a crappy feature for some pricy bball shoes, when there are shoes retailing for a lotless that are just plush when you wear them.
- Apr 24, 2003
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Dirk is wearing those Dual densitys again this season. that probably drives his nike rep or whatever a little crazy.
what was he supposed to wear this year? media day had him in these, don't know what they are.
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p...tty-76112960gj007_dallasmavericksmediaday.jpg
what was he supposed to wear this year? media day had him in these, don't know what they are.
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p...tty-76112960gj007_dallasmavericksmediaday.jpg
- Oct 15, 2006
- 1,819
- 11
i think that one of the reason nike dominates the market is because they put out shoes for every segment of the market.
tried on the STAT basketball shoes today, and they felt heavier than my dress shoes for work. felt very overbuilt in my opinion - like a pair of boots.
in constrast to this is the Zoom BB, which seems to be a pretty minimalist shoe on first glance - and i couldn't even find a pair in the store to try on.
tried on the STAT basketball shoes today, and they felt heavier than my dress shoes for work. felt very overbuilt in my opinion - like a pair of boots.
in constrast to this is the Zoom BB, which seems to be a pretty minimalist shoe on first glance - and i couldn't even find a pair in the store to try on.
