LSAT?

[lazyj10]

I looked into Blue Print via Berkeley and I just couldn't absorb the cost. From all research I did locally, by far one of the best out there. Half the battle is learning how to take the test

 

[hankmoody]

Regarding the T14 talk, it's mostly false, but with two important caveats. The importance of the caveats is probably why the T14 talk exists. So, here goes: You can go to a school ranked between 50 and 100, and still get a 6-figure job straight out of school or a even a federal clerkship. But: (1) your degree will probably only be good within your region (i.e. it won't be portable to a big city) AND (2) you need to be at or near the very top of your class to get the 6-figure job or clerkship. Doing well in law school is really difficult. I don't care if you got a 180 LSAT and a 4.0 at Princeton double majoring in Astrophysics and Philosophy--that's no guarantee you'll do well in law school. Also, as a practical matter, your chances of being at the top of your class are pretty low, so going to a low-ranked school isn't a gamble a lot of people are willing to take.
On the other hand, a legal education is good for more than 6-figure jobs. If you want to do public interest or government work, you can go to any number of schools, not necessarily be at the top of your class, get a PI/Gov't job, and have your loans repaid by the government.
My main advice is to know what you want out of law school before you go. Specifically. As in what job you want when you graduate. Law school is a "professional" school for a reason--its purpose is to set you up for a real job. If you just want to go because it sounds like the next prestigious gold-star thing to do, take some time off to think it over, get work and life experience, research into what it is that litigators and transactional lawyers in different fields actually do on a day-to-day basis. Your time in law school will be more valuable for it and you'll be a better interview for that job you want.

This is most optimistic post on law I've seen in quite some time. And talking about 50-100 in any positive light in ridiculous.
Look at 69th ranked Pitt Law:

Here are the ABA employment stats: http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/
Here is the NALC salary data (only look at PA because that's almost exclusively where the employed grads work) http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/nalp.aspx

Abysmal to say the least.


General overview on the employment stats: http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/aba-employment-stats-are-just-as-dire-as-we-expected/

Also, not one mention about COST. Potentially 200k in loans and 3 years of lost wages. Pitt Law is estimated at 48k/year for instate, 54k for oos. Have fun paying that off when you are making 50k a year. Oh you don't think that's possible? Average salary is down to 60k last I read.

Law school is a big gamble right now. A very big gamble if you don't get into a Tier 1/T25 school. Everyone is going in wanting to be in the top 5/10% of the class.

OP, do not go into this with the naïveté of an idealist. You go in wanting to make a difference and come out doing document review in some basement just to make ends meet.

I've talked many people out of law school in the past few years. It's just too risky right now.
I'm also going to post my aforementioned professor's blog (he was just on Bloomberg Law... he's shedding light on the truth and making a name for himself)
http://thebellyofthebeast.wordpress.com/

I haven't even talked about how harsh the "good" big law jobs are. 2400 billable hours and a very good chance of not making partner...
Read up folks. Seriously. .

 

[lazyj10]

Speaking personally...I had Merritt scholarship opportunities and possible employer reimbursement. I had no interest in practicing big law and my earning potential wasn't going to get worse with a JD (coupled with my CPA).

That being said, it's a personal decision that factors in economics. I chose not to pursue for a few reasons.

 

[hankmoody]

Merit scholarships?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/business/law-school-grants.html?pagewanted=all

At Golden Gate and other law schools nationwide, students are graded on a curve, which carefully rations the number of A’s and B’s, as well as C’s and D’s, awarded each semester. That all but ensures that a certain number of students — at Golden Gate, it could be in the realm of 70 students this year — will lose their scholarships and wind up paying full tuition in their second and third years.

Read up folks.

 

[stork]

HankMoody I don't think anyone cares whether or not they are making a difference in the world, just whether or not they can earn a reasonable salary to live comfortably. I hope to take the LSAT in the near future also, because law school is the only career option that's interesting to many people like us. I have no interest in getting an MBA, med school etc. but I also don't want to be 30 working dead end retail

 

[thepointgod]

HankMoody I don't think anyone cares whether or not they are making a difference in the world, just whether or not they can earn a reasonable salary to live comfortably. I hope to take the LSAT in the near future also, because law school is the only career option that's interesting to many people like us. I have no interest in getting an MBA, med school etc. but I also don't want to be 30 working dead end retail

Very little about the law is interesting if you're not at the appellate level or higher. The law is just the law, it's there, and you can read it, and then it's done. One might find the actual profession to be interesting, but dealing with clients is not interesting and it's mostly intolerable when/because you realize how many stupid people are in this world (and I'm talking from a transactional standpoint--I presume that small-, mid- and solo practitioners deals with far more idiots).

Law is the wrong field if you want to have a comfortable living. Working in big law is buns (but whatever, it's tolerable because at least you're making a little bit of money), but working elsewhere (government and public interest aside), you're constantly grinding and struggling to maintain clients and develop business. It's ugly out there.

Ignore the people broadcasting about how it's possible to get a job--chances are, you won't, or you won't get a job that pays what you think your J.D. is worth. There are way too many lawyers out there, way too many phony law schools promising too much. The ABA needs to take a step back and stop accrediting new programs and follow the med school model and really only allow the elite to attend law schools: you want to attend law school? Don't come through from undergrad with your 3.2 and a 160 on your LSAT. The legal profession is in shambles and needs to be repaired. Everyone and their moms is sitting on a J.D. with no job. The problem is that law schools require next to nothing in terms of resources/facilities and are every university's biggest cash cow.

Don't drink the Kool Aid and don't go to law school.

 

[Gex the Damaja]

HankMoody I don't think anyone cares whether or not they are making a difference in the world, just whether or not they can earn a reasonable salary to live comfortably. I hope to take the LSAT in the near future also, because law school is the only career option that's interesting to many people like us. I have no interest in getting an MBA, med school etc. but I also don't want to be 30 working dead end retail

It's not caring about "making a difference", he showing you the reality of it. 60k isn't a reasonable salary when your -6 figures in the hole. Just look at medical residents, they make much less than that and struggle constantly. Difference between medical school and law, is job employment. Once your done with Law school, reality is the job market is bleak. Even the 60k isn't guaranteed.

 

[lazyj10]

Merit scholarships?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/business/law-school-grants.html?pagewanted=all
Read up folks.

I know all of that...I hope your bringing that article to light to inform those considering so they're becoming aware of the costs, etc. in deciding whether or not to go? I did months worth of research which included meeting with admissions people, non-admissions people, actual lawyers, professors, and so on. My situation is different than most these folks as I was already 4-5 years removed from undergrad when I considered going back to school.

I personally was NOT going to be out of pocket for my entire duration at law school should I have gone.

 

[dathbgboy]

When it's all said and done, you can find pros and cons to every profession or degree. So it isn't swaying me any to read the negatives of law school because I already know what to expect. I just cant tell my daughter to pursue her dreams if I never have. Always wanted to be a lawyer, plain and simple. As far as the financial aspect, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.

The last thing I want to do is stress so much about that and then do poorly on the LSAT. Already paid the $160 so no turning back

 

[thepointgod]

1. I just cant tell my daughter to pursue her dreams if I never have.

2. Always wanted to be a lawyer, plain and simple.

3. As far as the financial aspect, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.

4. Already paid the $160 so no turning back

With such sound logic, you are well on your way to becoming a promising lawyer.

 

[hankmoody]

Forewarned is forearmed.

OP, I never said don't take the LSAT. I never said don't go to law school. I'm just posting facts. Heck, you might pull a 178 and get into a T14 and be relatively set. I just hate to see people uninformed about law school and the legal profession right now.

LazyJ, I'm definitely not singling you out or anything. Im sure you did your due diligence. Honestly, I couldn't care less about your specific situation. You might be that .1% for whom a 69nd law school would not be considered even a small gamble due to mitigating factors such as your prior credentials and your employer's financial support and backing. That's great. I'm just posting facts about the overall picture, including the merit scholarship con that has recently popped up. It's abysmal right now and there's no one on Earth who could deny that.

 

[lazyj10]

Fair point. Law schools saw a huge up tick when the economy tanked as everyone viewed 3-years of school being a safe haven. Now the reality of tough job conditions and law schools wanting to thin attendance/admitance have come to light.

I didn't see what you were originally getting at prior to re-reading your posts.

 

[dathbgboy]

Forewarned is forearmed.
OP, I never said don't take the LSAT. I never said don't go to law school. I'm just posting facts. Heck, you might pull a 178 and get into a T14 and be relatively set. I just hate to see people uninformed about law school and the legal profession right now.
LazyJ, I'm definitely not singling you out or anything. Im sure you did your due diligence. Honestly, I couldn't care less about your specific situation. You might be that .1% for whom a 69nd law school would not be considered even a small gamble due to mitigating factors such as your prior credentials and your employer's financial support and backing. That's great. I'm just posting facts about the overall picture, including the merit scholarship con that has recently popped up. It's abysmal right now and there's no one on Earth who could deny that.

No doubt. U wasn't gon sway me regardless I've been battling this uncertainty since I graduated in 2010 so I know what I'm getting myself into. I personally hate the law school structure my damn self but since I can't self study for a JD and bar passing, I have no choice. Never said it would be easy either. I feel what youre saying about ppl being uninformed jumping into things but I've never been one to do that

 

[jayhood23]

Pay Mike to take it for you