that doesn't mean Shaq GAVE him the ring, though.
And the Lakers wouldn't have got to the Finals for 2 and 3 if not for Kobes play?
Kobe has a better chance being top 5 than lebron though.
This thread is in the context of their first ring. Unlike Kobe, Wade earned his first ring.
Even Lebron earned his first ring more than Wade did, which is saying something.
16 of those 34ppg came from the FT line
dude took 97 FTs in 6 games
25 free throws in game 5
Originally Posted by knightngale
Even Lebron earned his first ring more than Wade did, which is saying something.
16 of those 34ppg came from the FT line
dude took 97 FTs in 6 games
25 free throws in game 5
even if you discredit those first 3 rings he is still 2-1 over lebron and wade as a first optionOriginally Posted by quik1987
Originally Posted by knightngale
Even Lebron earned his first ring more than Wade did, which is saying something.
16 of those 34ppg came from the FT line
dude took 97 FTs in 6 games
25 free throws in game 5
Agreed, Lebron and Wade earned their first ring more than Kobe.
game 1: 14 points on 13 shots.
game 2: scored 2 points and played 9 minutes due to an injury
game 3: didn't play
game 4: This was the game when Kobe stepped up and hit some big shots in over time. Kobe played pretty good and this game and had 28 points on 51% shooting, but Shaq had 36 points and 21 rebounds.
game 5: scored 8 points on 4-20 shots (20 FG%)
game 6: 8-27 shooting (29 FG%)
Shaq dominate 95% ? Reach . Shaq could have won with any other SG or SF ? Lol reach
How come Shaq didn't win with Penny when Penny was in his prime ? Kobe was only 21 ?
Not a reach at all.
He didn't win the 95 finals because he had to face Hakeem Olajuwon.
You can bring up Penny. I can bring up Wade. What about the fact that he won with Wade when he was nowhere near as good as he was with the Lakers? But yeah, when he was much better than he was with Wade between 1999-2004, of all the star players he needed KOBE to win.
When Shaq was out of the game for rest. It was Kobe time. His impact on perimeter defense and his presence on the floor was huge.
Whatever you claim his impact was, it was peanuts compared to Shaq's impact, which is the point.
Kobe EARNED his medals. He wasn't on some Luke Walton ride along the show
Who the hell said he was a Luke Walton? But he was along for the show. Shaq was like a kid in a candy store those years. No one was even remotely capable of stopping him.
And in the following . 2001. Kobe was beast. A second option that put up nearly 29 point a game in playoff ? Where you find such second option ?
VC , Tmac, AI , Ray Allen ain't going to give you 29 per game while having to guard other team perimeter players . Try again son
McGrady averaged 34 ppg in the first round against the Bucks. Vince Carter averaged 27 over those playoffs. Iverson 33, even though I don't think Iverson would've been a great teammate for Shaq because he wouldn't share the ball enough. Ray Allen averaged 25. Pierce averaged 25 the next year, the first time he made the playoffs. The difference? They were all kicked out of the playoffs and unlike Kobe, none of these players were drafted with a silver spoon in their mouths to be put in a position to play with a player who played in a time where he was more dominant than any other player in NBA history was during his time. Not Wilt, not Kareem, no one was as dominant compared to the rest of the league as Shaq was in the early 00s. He would've won multiple rings with all these players being his sidekick. He was just THAT dominant.
As for the finals themselves: He wasn't as bad as in the 2000 finals, but Kobe still played like meh in the 2001 finals.
Compare the 2004-05, 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons of Kobe with those of early 00s T-Mac. He put up great stats, but team-wise it was lottery and first round exits.
I won't even waste my time and argue with you anymore. You seriously sound like a kid. 54% from the floor isn't great because it was on layups?Assists is the most overblown stat in basketball?
Lol at you still trying to discredit Kobe for what he did for the Lakers. Kobe put in work Period. He HELPED Shaq. Therefore he earned his name on the ring. Of course Shaq dominated because he got Jeff Foster and Rik Smith guarding him in 2000 while playing 2 feet away from the basket ? Shaq couldn't do it when he got to play defense on Hakeem while being checked by Hakeem . My point is Kobe put in work so the Lakers can get to the Finals. You can't discredit Kobe . Go back and watch wcf games
My question was how come Shaq didn't win when he got a prime Penny ? Your answer is because Hakeem lol. Thank you for seeing the light
Without Kobe playing great defense and playing the facilitator role during those WCF games . The Lakers wouldnt even advance to the Finals.
You mentioned guy like Tmac, AI , VC etc. Those guys play zero defense. Unlike them Kobe in his physical prime was a great lock down defensive player.
And Kobe > Tmac, AI VC even as second option29.ppg as a second option playing on the WEST conference vs SPurs, Kings Portland. Nuff said
You said Kobe was meh in 2001 . LOL you obviously didn't watch him. Here one of what he did against the SPurs http://www.youtube.com/wa...pnmAk2xU&feature=related
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and then against the Kings
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But still in your view. Kobe was meh . What a troll you are
Again. Lebron is great than Jordan because he got 8 imaginary rings right ?
Originally Posted by knightngale
even if you discredit those first 3 rings he is still 2-1 over lebron and wade as a first option
Yes you can discredit assist# because it's overrated. Steals is different as assist. I'm talking assist specifically here. And you read my example of how assist is overblown and can't be use to justify a player whether he pass the ball or not.Originally Posted by Crime Wave
You can pretty much discredit any stat in basketball (or any sport for that matter). For an example, steals. You could argue that a player might have broken out of the defensive scheme to gamble on a ball that could potentially turn into a open shot attempt for the opposing team. You could say that about field goal percentage. A player might average 25% shooting during the first three quarters but during the 4th he consistently averages 80%. You're really just nitpicking.Originally Posted by ACBboyz84
Tell me how is it not ? Are you saying the guy who pass the ball has the ability to make his teammate to convert the shot as well ? You can try to make the prettiest pass but if your teammate don't covert you don't get nothing. Example. You drive and kick the ball out to your teammate. He brick a wide open shot now what do you get ? Do you still get an assist if he miss ? How about if you set up a nice pass but your teammate get fouled and shoot free throw ? lol Do you still get assist for that ? If player A has 5 assist per game vs player B got 7 assist per game. Are you saying player A don't pass the ball thus he only average 5 assist ?Originally Posted by ill steelo
I'm in tears b. You legitimately believe this
You can't be that naive .
Kobe as a first option didn't get a good team until 2009Originally Posted by quik1987
Originally Posted by knightngale
even if you discredit those first 3 rings he is still 2-1 over lebron and wade as a first option
Kobe started 1996
Lebron and Wade started 2003
Your response still doesn't justify your nitpicking. You can overrated almost any stat. PPG is an overrated stat.
Definitely, QFT. (Even though that's kind of a "what if" scenario so we don't know for sure what would happen with any of those wings, but I see where you're saying and I agree with you.)
Originally Posted by quik1987
Originally Posted by knightngale
Even Lebron earned his first ring more than Wade did, which is saying something.
16 of those 34ppg came from the FT line
dude took 97 FTs in 6 games
25 free throws in game 5
Agreed, Lebron and Wade earned their first ring more than Kobe.
15.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.2 apg 36%fg%
34.7ppg, 7.8rpg, 3.8apg 46.8fg% & finals mvp
28.6ppg, 10.2rpg, 7.4apg 47.2fg% & finals mvp
one of these things is not like the other
